Is it resistant to fuel dilution? That's my biggest concern. I can smell fuel on the dipstick when I pull it and check it during the winter. Now it's not so bad that it has warmed up.
Outside of extended OCIs with ideal usage (all highway), what is the use case for boutique oils?
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You likely won’t know what your dilution is without sending it off for analysis. When I first sampled my Road Glide, it had 2.2% fuel dilution as it was a new engine. The copper and tin are from the bronze bushings, those will reduce on the next change. It’s characteristic wear of the HD M8 engine. As the rings seated fuel dilution decreased. This is the same oil in the same engine, just two sampling intervals. That is around the mileage you’re looking for in the first sample with the fuel dilution. It still held grade remarkably well.
Yeah I should probably send one at the end of winter. But I can smell it straight away. And when I drain the oil.
Is the oxidation low here for an ester based oil? I assumed HPL would have a high oxidation from its ester content.
Just to add on to the whole fuel dilution and winter driving. Here’s an example where boutique oils shine. Here’s 3 samples on my 21 Outback 2.5L. Mostly commutes 4 miles round trip for work in Minnesota winters. 1st sample Amsoil SS 0w20, 2nd Amsoil OE 0w-20, 3rd Mobil 1 AFE 0w-30. I plan on returning to Amsoil eventually most likely 0w-40 SS.
I don't see the issue.
Without me sending a virgin sample off for analysis, I can’t say with any certainty what the starting ox levels are or how my bike has changed them.
That’s the highest I’ve ever seen fuel dilution on a report. The Ams stood up well in the face of that!
IDT most people who use "boutique" oils do so with extended drain intervals in mind, probably the opposite in fact.
The HPS line of oil from Royal Purple has levels of ZDDP which exceed the allowable upper limits of the API ratings...so they don't have an API rating. Last UOA I did of HPS 5-30 has 1200-1300PPM of zinc and phos. and that is why I use it.
Since you really put oil through its paces, I’d love to see you test some others just to see. Torco, Schaeffers Royal purple. Heck, if I had anything outside of 0w20 I’d send it to you. I use HPL but in my climate and my use it’s getting harder for me to justify the price.
If I'm reading that right, the AMSOIL stayed perfectly in grade with a higher fuel dilution AND more miles while the M1 sheared out of grade with lower fuel dilution and only 2000 miles?!
@Nuclear_42
I have a port injected 3.5 ford cyclone engine. It idles a lot takes short trips and I beat it like a rented mule. I have no fuel dilution issues or moisture in the engine. I will use HPL in it for extended oil drain interval over the winter so i don't have to crawl under the car in the arctic cold of Buffalo NY.
If for example I decided to buy a new Honda civic with 1.5 I would see how it does with fuel/oil dilution issue before doing extended drain.
If for example I decided to buy a new Honda civic with 1.5 I would see how it does with fuel/oil dilution issue before doing extended drain.
Pretty much, with the SS having the best viscosity retention despite more miles and the most fuel. Personally, I think the Amsoil SS AZO 0w-30 may suffice if it stays in grade like the 0w-20 did; albeit it also fell quite a bit as to be expected with that much fuel. The AZO product would hopefully stay well over >9.0cSt.If I'm reading that right, the AMSOIL stayed perfectly in grade with a higher fuel dilution AND more miles while the M1 sheared out of grade with lower fuel dilution and only 2000 miles?!
@Nuclear_42
Here is the Amsoil PDS for SS:
https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf
Is the "AZO" product just the 0W-30 weight?
Might have to switch to HPL or AMSOIL. Running the VRP now. I think I'm probably safe for now because my mileage is so low, but other than this magic detergent additive, VRP is probably a garden variety group III synthetic. In the Nissan Rogue with GDI, with its short trips especially in the winter and timing chain, it's probably shearing down I would guess. But >3000 miles in, and it isn't burning any oil.
Correct, the AZO is the code name for the SS 0w30 grade.
I think preventing issues from ever developing is one thing boutiques can offer. It’s hard to define “need” as opposed to preference. It’s like asking if someone needs anything more than a small I4 Honda or Toyota before all these turbo GDI came out if just needing to commute. Basic method of travel being “good enough”…“Eh”…can get by on them, but people have preferences including comfort. I think the extra headroom is nice. Personally, I believe my vehicle now consumes oil because of extending intervals on OTS synthetics. I’m gonna give VRP a try this fall. I’m 20k into running SS with no consumption change…if it doesn’t reduce by this fall I’ll swap. However, I doubt I’d have developed oil burning had I not extended on an oil not marketed for extended intervals. TBD if the theory of present oil control rings being stuck proves true or not later next year?
BTW: I had solid UOAs, too. And as HPL has indicated here, massive difference in boutiques with regards to true “run clean” capabilities of such oils compared to run of the mill OTS.
I hate to be the old guy that keep saying things like this, but in my day Mobil1 was a boutique oil too.
FYI - I've used every oil commonly available except for HPL and Redline, and except for my first 500 miles on VRP, have never seen or felt any profound difference in the way my vehicles respond to engine oil.
Everyone here has a different situation, so needs, $$, driving conditions and vehicle are all parts of the equation. I'll tell you a major reason why I buy boutique oils (Amsoil). I became a dealer years ago and had a bunch or different vehicles and equipment to service. I find ordering easy, shipping fast and accurate, and prices at dealer or PC rates to be competitive. For example, my cost for Euro oil for my wife's car is cheaper than any brand on the shelve at your favorite box store. Could I get cheaper fluids, yes if I wanted to work for it. For the few bucks extra, ordering what I need when I want, from a reliable source is worth it all.
Because I don't do real extended drains, I tend to use the OE, Euro and Heavy Duty Diesel engine oil in various engines. These products have given me reliable and consistent results. I love the gear oils, All-in-One Diesel fuel treatment, ATF, and the moly grease. I dabble with other products (VRP because why not?) so I'm not always locked in to Amsoil, but I usually have a reason or want to try the flavor of the day.
FYI - I've used every oil commonly available except for HPL and Redline, and except for my first 500 miles on VRP, have never seen or felt any profound difference in the way my vehicles respond to engine oil.
Everyone here has a different situation, so needs, $$, driving conditions and vehicle are all parts of the equation. I'll tell you a major reason why I buy boutique oils (Amsoil). I became a dealer years ago and had a bunch or different vehicles and equipment to service. I find ordering easy, shipping fast and accurate, and prices at dealer or PC rates to be competitive. For example, my cost for Euro oil for my wife's car is cheaper than any brand on the shelve at your favorite box store. Could I get cheaper fluids, yes if I wanted to work for it. For the few bucks extra, ordering what I need when I want, from a reliable source is worth it all.
Because I don't do real extended drains, I tend to use the OE, Euro and Heavy Duty Diesel engine oil in various engines. These products have given me reliable and consistent results. I love the gear oils, All-in-One Diesel fuel treatment, ATF, and the moly grease. I dabble with other products (VRP because why not?) so I'm not always locked in to Amsoil, but I usually have a reason or want to try the flavor of the day.
I'm good with what I know works.
A well designed engine (which some aren't) can last a few hundred thousand miles on most store bought oils so I see no reason to spend big money on boutique oils. The most expensive oils I could see buying are Mobil 1 EP or Castrol EP (gold jug). If I did splurge for one of those I'd want to extend my OCI to justify the cost. (I think both are claiming 20 or 25K OCI capability...which I would never do). I've often wondered which would protect better...5 or 6k OCI's on Supertech or Kirkland synthetic vs. 8 or 9k on the Mobil or Castrol EP's? Thoughts?
Satisfying CAFE is the least of my worries; I would prefer to need a microscope to even see it to begin with. It's a scam. They've had cars like the Nissan Sentra and Honda CRX HF already getting over 40 miles to the gallon and that was 20 years ago or more.
I was getting over 40 mpg in a Datsun B210 over 45 years ago running 10w30 whatever.
If you email Maryjane in the office at HPL you can get any amount of quarts you would like.
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