Oils and Warranty

Joined
Jul 20, 2024
Messages
36
Location
Mexico, North Dakota and North Carolina!
Trying to get some oils ordered for break in of a new 2024 RAV4 as well regular oil for a 2020 Ford Edge SEL.

The ford is out of warranty and I'll probably go HPL 5W-30.

I'm actually at work during some down time, on an oil well, and have terrible internet service so googling is being a PITA. BITOG loads fast and is one site so I'm asking here.

HPL is not ILSAC nor API SP(or any API rating) and thus would screw me on warranty on my Toyota correct?

What about Amsoil Signature? Or Redline?

Plan on using 0W16 as the manual recommends even though people say a thicker oil during break in is better(ie I could throw 0W20 in at 500 miles til a change again later.)

Any idea about those brands and warranty?
 
I do not know about the Licensing thing, but HPL's entry level oil would be a suitable Replacement. I could be wrong, but I do not see HPL's entry level oil messing up your Warranty. Use HPL oil and change it when you are supposed to during the Warranty period. At what mileage do they want you to change your oil?

Suitable Replacement For:

API SP Resource Conserving (5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30)
API SP (10W-40, 15W-40, 20W-50, 30, 40)
dexos1TM Gen2 (5W-20, 5W-30)
ILSAC GF-6A (5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30)
Chrysler MS6395 (5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30)
Ford WSS-M2C945-B1 (5W-20)
Ford WSS-M2C946-B1 (5W-30)
 
If you're concerned about the warranty look for an oil that has the ILSAC and API ratings in the grade your owners manual recommends you use. One less thing to worry about if that's something you would worry about.
 
If you're concerned about the warranty look for an oil that has the ILSAC and API ratings in the grade your owners manual recommends you use. One less thing to worry about if that's something you would worry about.
That is my question. From my understanding (and using a horrid Internet connection atm) HPL oils are not rated. Sure they exceed the spec but they haven't actually done the dog and pony show to get API SP and ILSAC GF-6B or whatever it would be.

The other part of my question is: are Redline and Amsoil officially certified with ILSAC GF-6B and API SP? If so they'd meet warranty reqs afaik. I'd be taking the oil to a Toyota dealer for the changes anyway so they'd have records of it but will also keep receipts
 
If you are worried or unsure, buy the common brands with the Approvals and Standards you need. Safest bet during warranty are the most logical choices like Mobil-1 EP, Castrol Edge EP, Valvoline EP and Pennzoil PUP

When the warranty ends, then jump on the Amsoil, HPL, Red Line, Motul, Schaeffer......etc.... bandwagon.
 
I've never been given any grief from any dealer about using Amsoil in my vehicles. I used to have the dealers do the Amsoil and filter changes I brought and no one ever said it'd void a warranty.

If you want to run Amsoil or HPL, then do so.
 
I've never been given any grief from any dealer about using Amsoil in my vehicles. I used to have the dealers do the Amsoil and filter changes I brought and no one ever said it'd void a warranty.
To be honest, if you use any well-known brand and change it on schedule, most dealers are not educated enough on the nuances between API certified (vs. not) to give you grief. Though, if the records get scrutinized by Toyota themselves, then all bets are off.
 
The Op's location is Mexico, North Dakota, and North Carolina, I am wondering where he bought the car? I am only in 1 location; I need to find 2 more Locations!
 
Just use the Toyota 0w~16 like the ice in the RAV4 calls for. It most likely will be okay in your Ford.
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/toyota-oil-apparently-is-good-oil.817200/

References this Lake Speed jr video



Toyota oil actually has a decent additive package, well engineered.

Since cost not a factor I would agree with LeeA and recommend you stick with that.

I think his videos are pretty good, and fact based—but hey, I am not out in a real oil field like you!

https://m.youtube.com/@themotoroilgeek
 
This is a controversial subject on every forum. So this is only based on my personal experience. Some people won’t agree. A series of events happen with a warranty engine failure.

First the dealer will check if the engine series has a known problem. This is the most common fault.

Next step if necessary will be the disassembly of the engine for inspection/diagnosis. Keep in mind oil related engine failures are EXTREMELY rare. Here they will also see how clean the engine is internally and decide if they need to send off an oil sample. If the engine failure is catastrophic the UOA will be useless 99% of the time. If the engine is extremely dirty this is when they may ask for records. If the engine is clean they won’t go in that direction. Again for them to prove an oil related failure outside of lack of maintenance or running out of oil is almost impossible.

Here is the best part. If the dealer/manufacturer tries to deny your warranty you can go to arbitration free of charge. The arbitration will be decided by 1 to 3 arbitrators. They rarely side with the dealer. You can then decide to accept the decision or seek legal action. The dealer can not fight the decision.

So in my opinion use any of those high end oils your considering.
 
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To be honest, if you use any well-known brand and change it on schedule, most dealers are not educated enough on the nuances between API certified (vs. not) to give you grief. Though, if the records get scrutinized by Toyota themselves, then all bets are off.

Then the problem lies with dealers and the right to repair act and Magnusson vs Moss. Dealers and manufacturers open themselves up to lawsuits if they try to deny warranty claims over oil.
 
The Op's location is Mexico, North Dakota, and North Carolina, I am wondering where he bought the car? I am only in 1 location; I need to find 2 more Locations!
While complicated, it isn't difficult to understand. I live in Mexico. maintain a US residence for vehicles registration and tax purposes in Nac(which is also where I grew up), I work oilfield in North Dakota.

Vehicle was purchased in and will be plated in NC.
 
Then the problem lies with dealers and the right to repair act and Magnusson vs Moss. Dealers and manufacturers open themselves up to lawsuits if they try to deny warranty claims over oil.
Mag-Moss only works when you use equivalent products per the manufacturer's specifications. Using an oil that carries no certs etc. would not fall under Mag-Moss.
 
another route: buy and return a licensed API fluid, save a copy of the receipt and then fill with HPL, Amsoil or Redline.
I'd just used that 'licensed API fluid' that's easily available at AA, AZ, Walmart etc.....Engines have gone 300K, 400K, 500K etc....without ever seeing a drop of boutique oils.

PS: If you like 'moly' as many break-in oils seem to have...you could search for a brand that has a high amount....IIRC , Valvoline Advanced Synthetic is one such oil.
 
I'd just used that 'licensed API fluid' that's easily available at AA, AZ, Walmart etc.....Engines have gone 300K, 400K, 500K etc....without ever seeing a drop of boutique oils.

PS: If you like 'moly' as many break-in oils seem to have...you could search for a brand that has a high amount....IIRC , Valvoline Advanced Synthetic is one such oil.
some of us like boutique fluids. OP specifically asked about the brands i mentioned so I gave them a route. just because it didn’t “blow up” doesn’t mean something could have been done better.
 
Mag-Moss only works when you use equivalent products per the manufacturer's specifications. Using an oil that carries no certs etc. would not fall under Mag-Moss.

I disagree. I see nothing in the M/M info on the FTC site that indicates non-licensed products are excluded from coverage of the law.

Using an oil that carries no certification still falls under the M/M ACT. It just may or may not make it more difficult to defend against counter-claims of unsuitability.

Example 1:
If you choose to use a non-licensed engine oil (let's say Amsoil or HPL) in your engine, that does not mean that the warranty of the engine is automatically void. It only places the burden of proof upon the lube maker to prove that the lube is suitable for the intended application. Producers of high-quality products which are intended for the application will likely be able to show that their unlicensed product is still viable for that application relative to the license spec/standard.

Example 2:
If you choose to use a non-licensed engine oil (Amoil or HPL) in your differential, that also does not mean that the warranty of the differential is automatically void. But it certainly makes it way more difficult to prove that the lube chosen would be defendable. And even the lube maker may void their warranty if you use a product in an application it was not intended for.

The key is that any product, licensed or not, has to be proven that it "caused" the failure. Here is the specific language form the FTC:
"Companies may, however, refuse warranty coverage for defects or damage caused by using third-party parts or third-party services."

The issue is the concern of proof of the root cause of failure. Just because something is unlicensed does not automatically make that product the cause of failure. It has to be proven it was the cause of failure. M/M is still in effect; it makes no determination of license status relative to the applicability of the product and warranty.

And in fact, licensed products can still be the root cause of failure. Just because something carries a license does not mean it was properly made to that specification/standard. A licensed lubricant could fail to meet the standard via production problems; a lube could have the wrong additive package, etc. Hence, even a licensed aftermarket lube which caused failure would be a reasonable cause to deny warranty.



Licensed products make for a higher level of confidence when using a product. But licensed products are minimum standard, not a maximum standard. And those licensed products are not fool-proof; they can still cause problems. And unlicensed products are not automatically implied to be at fault; that's a misrepresentation of the M/M conditions.

The M/M Act is law that essentially states how warranties are to be offered, described and implemented.
The law does NOT automatically assign or deny the root cause of failure based on license status.

https://consumer.ftc.gov/consumer-a...-companies-warranty-restrictions-were-illegal
https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/businesspersons-guide-federal-warranty-law
 
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I disagree. I see nothing in the M/M info on the FTC site that indicates non-licensed products are excluded from coverage of the law.

Using an oil that carries no certification still falls under the M/M ACT. It just may or may not make it more difficult to defend against counter-claims of unsuitability.

Example 1:
If you choose to use a non-licensed engine oil (let's say Amsoil or HPL) in your engine, that does not mean that the warranty of the engine is automatically void. It only places the burden of proof upon the lube maker to prove that the lube is suitable for the intended application. Producers of high-quality products which are intended for the application will likely be able to show that their unlicensed product is still viable for that application relative to the license spec/standard.

Example 2:
If you choose to use a non-licensed engine oil (Amoil or HPL) in your differential, that also does not mean that the warranty of the differential is automatically void. But it certainly makes it way more difficult to prove that the lube chosen would be defendable. And even the lube maker may void their warranty if you use a product in an application it was not intended for.

The key is that any product, licensed or not, has to be proven that it "caused" the failure. Here is the specific language form the FTC:
"Companies may, however, refuse warranty coverage for defects or damage caused by using third-party parts or third-party services."

The issue is the concern of proof of the root cause of failure. Just because something is unlicensed does not automatically make that product the cause of failure. It has to be proven it was the cause of failure. M/M is still in effect; it makes no determination of license status relative to the applicability of the product and warranty.

And in fact, licensed products can still be the root cause of failure. Just because something carries a license does not mean it was properly made to that specification/standard. A licensed lubricant could fail to meet the standard via production problems; a lube could have the wrong additive package, etc. Hence, even a licensed aftermarket lube which caused failure would be a reasonable cause to deny warranty.



Licensed products make for a higher level of confidence when using a product. But licensed products are minimum standard, not a maximum standard. And those licensed products are not fool-proof; they can still cause problems. And unlicensed products are not automatically implied to be at fault; that's a misrepresentation of the M/M conditions.

The M/M Act is law that essentially states how warranties are to be offered, described and implemented.
The law does NOT automatically assign or deny the root cause of failure based on license status.

https://consumer.ftc.gov/consumer-a...-companies-warranty-restrictions-were-illegal
https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/businesspersons-guide-federal-warranty-law
The MM portion related to auto warranties was created to ensure manufacturers couldn't require you to use OEM/dealer parts and service to maintain your warranty so that M1 and fram filter, as long as they met the requirments as stated in the owner's manual/warranty card/whatever. That's really it. And yes, as you say, if I use HPL and the dealer and then manufacturer won't honor a warranty claim due to this specifically, you can get an attorney and go to arbitration/court and cover that cost to argue that the oil wasn't the cause of the issue driving the warranty claim b/c the OEM will have to show this. And you will likely lose this b/c you didn't use an oil that had the requirements they called for....but maybe you will win/convince the arbritator/judge. This is a v. good video on this topic by an attorney that specializes in the area of car warranty issues (this video is focused primarily on aftermarket modifications but still relevent info contained herein):

 
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