Oils and Warranty

[someonesomewhere]

I've never been given any grief from any dealer about using Amsoil in my vehicles. I used to have the dealers do the Amsoil and filter changes I brought and no one ever said it'd void a warranty.

If you want to run Amsoil or HPL, then do so.

They won't tell you upfront. They'll wait until you make a warranty claim, or try to. If they can weasel out legally, they will. And using an oil that doesn't meet the stated specs is a legitimate excuse for them to do so, like it or not. Viscosity difference would be one thing, but not meeting the industry standard specifications is a totally different pony.

Doesn't matter if the oil *technically* exceeds the specifications. They only care about the certifications and whether they're present.

 

[factorytuned2012]

Magnusson vs Moss

Isn’t that for parts that meet or exceeds manufacture specifications. Does oil and lubricants fall under the same?

 

[someonesomewhere]

Isn’t that for parts that meet or exceeds manufacture specifications. Does oil and lubricants fall under the same?

Even if it does, it wouldn't if the oils used haven't been certified as doing so. Logos have to be on the bottle. Especially if you're just providing the oil/filter and letting the dealer do the labor for free, as OP is doing. If he did it in his driveway and they never saw the bottles, likely they'd never know. BUT they do love testing oils before approving warranty work. I wouldn't risk it, as others have stated, and just use a name brand oil that states that it meets or exceeds specs and has the labeling to back it up.

 

[factorytuned2012]

Even if it does, it wouldn't if the oils used haven't been certified as doing so. Logos have to be on the bottle. Especially if you're just providing the oil/filter and letting the dealer do the labor for free, as OP is doing. If he did it in his driveway and they never saw the bottles, likely they'd never know. BUT they do love testing oils before approving warranty work. I wouldn't risk it, as others have stated, and just use a name brand oil that states that it meets or exceeds specs and has the labeling to back it up.

I agree.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

Trying to get some oils ordered for break in of a new 2024 RAV4 as well regular oil for a 2020 Ford Edge SEL.

The ford is out of warranty and I'll probably go HPL 5W-30.

I'm actually at work during some down time, on an oil well, and have terrible internet service so googling is being a PITA. BITOG loads fast and is one site so I'm asking here.

HPL is not ILSAC nor API SP(or any API rating) and thus would screw me on warranty on my Toyota correct?

What about Amsoil Signature? Or Redline?

Plan on using 0W16 as the manual recommends even though people say a thicker oil during break in is better(ie I could throw 0W20 in at 500 miles til a change again later.)

Any idea about those brands and warranty?

I just did changed out to Valvoline Restore and Protect at 400 mi, documented it, and then changed to HPL at 1500 mi and didn’t document it. Problem solved.

 

[cb_13]

This is a controversial subject on every forum. So this is only based on my personal experience. Some people won’t agree. A series of events happen with a warranty engine failure.

First the dealer will check if the engine series has a known problem. This is the most common fault.

Next step if necessary will be the disassembly of the engine for inspection/diagnosis. Keep in mind oil related engine failures are EXTREMELY rare. Here they will also see how clean the engine is internally and decide if they need to send off an oil sample. If the engine failure is catastrophic the UOA will be useless 99% of the time. If the engine is extremely dirty this is when they may ask for records. If the engine is clean they won’t go in that direction. Again for them to prove an oil related failure outside of lack of maintenance or running out of oil is almost impossible.

Here is the best part. If the dealer/manufacturer tries to deny your warranty you can go to arbitration free of charge. The arbitration will be decided by 1 to 3 arbitrators. They rarely side with the dealer. You can then decide to accept the decision or seek legal action. The dealer can not fight the decision.

So in my opinion use any of those high end oils your considering.

That’s sounds good but how I’ve seen it work in the real world if they see a possible discrepancy that would cause the manufacturer to issue a chargeback is that the dealership says “Look we’re not gonna cover this due to the possibility of you violating the terms of your warranty. We’re doing you a favor and not recording the repair order so the manufacturer will not see it and will not mess with your warranty but you need to go somewhere else”

I was involved with being the third dealership in a warranty repair as the other two just told him to leave. The violation was fairly obvious(not oil related) but of course the customer denied anything other than normal operation. The manufacturer did void the customers powertrain warranty but replaced the engine as a one time repair due to wanting it to examine the failure points.

 

[Mechanician]

Dealers make a lot of money performing warranty work.
Anyone assuming the dealer is always looking for a way out is overlooking that.
The only thing a dealer is typically looking for - is anything that will cause the claim to be denied.
As pointed out earlier engine oil related failures during warranty are VERY rare.
They will consult the manufacturer on how to move forward.
If oil starvation is suspected, or sludge is seen, good luck.

 

[TiGeo]

Isn’t that for parts that meet or exceeds manufacture specifications. Does oil and lubricants fall under the same?

Same thing.

 

[Furious]

Mag-Moss only works when you use equivalent products per the manufacturer's specifications. Using an oil that carries no certs etc. would not fall under Mag-Moss.

Someone finally gets it.

 

[TiGeo]

Someone finally gets it.

It certainly doesn't make it so you are going to get a warranty claim denial but the fact is...it *could* have that impact. These scenarios that play out here and elsewhere on this topic are always a hypothetical tossed salad. Each case will be handled differently but for folks that are "warranty worriers", stick with exactly what is outlined in the manual and stop arguing the semantics of "recommended" or "must use" or the myriad of other things that get discussed (they can use XYZ viscosity in Uganda in this same engine). Just follow the manual w/r to oil certs/approvals/viscosity, it's the only sure way to ensure that your choice in oil isn't the root cause of a warranty denial and sleep well at night. This is so unlikely to happen in the first place by over-maintainers like we have here on the BITOG using quality oils that I can't believe the amount of the vehicle inter webs dedicated to this question but folks want to know without doubt about this and it just can't be answered that way....life has risks, we all accept differing levels.

 

[RagnarokCamaro]

Someone finally gets it.

No, he doesn't. Mag-Moss was a case that started because a dealer tried to void a warranty on a car that had a supercharger on it when it wasn't the cause of the failure.

The case clearly states that warranties cannot be denied unless the dealer can prove anything the dealer/manufacturers did not install was the cause of the failure. It doesnt have to be just an aftermarket part.

 

[Analog-1]

Dealers make a lot of money performing warranty work.

Not really. It's only 1/3 of what they make with non warranty work. Mechanics really get the shaft on warranty work and hate it.

 

[Pablo]

Someone finally gets it.

Not really. Read post #19. And #31.

 

[TiGeo]

Not really. Read post #19. And #31.

Those are both wrong.

How about folks just go read the MM.

 

[Furious]

Those are both wrong.

How about folks just go read the MM.

I was reading it and no where does it say Hey you consumer you can use the incorrect oil that your engine was not designed for.

 

[TiGeo]

It's a broad consumer protection law w/r to warranties. The topic being discussed here is handled in the "no tie-in sales requirements" section of the linked.

https://www.findlaw.com/consumer/co...laws-and-the-magnuson-moss-warranty-act-.html

 

[kschachn]

They won't tell you upfront. They'll wait until you make a warranty claim, or try to. If they can weasel out legally, they will. And using an oil that doesn't meet the stated specs is a legitimate excuse for them to do so, like it or not. Viscosity difference would be one thing, but not meeting the industry standard specifications is a totally different pony.

Doesn't matter if the oil *technically* exceeds the specifications. They only care about the certifications and whether they're present.

Any personal experience with this? Or just more Internet amplification?

 

[TiGeo]

Not really. It's only 1/3 of what they make with non warranty work. Mechanics really get the shaft on warranty work and hate it.

Accurate. The true gatekeeper here is the tech assigned to your car, if he/she doesn't want to mess around or do long diag times they don't get paid out for under the flat rate system they are paid within, you aren't getting it fixed. Just have to really understand the system and work it to your advantage.

 

[kschachn]

I was reading it and no where does it say Hey you consumer you can use the incorrect oil that your engine was not designed for.

It says if you use an oil that isn’t what is recommended and it causes damage, warranty may be void.

Warranty is predicated on damage not a fishing expedition.

 

[TiGeo]

No, he doesn't. Mag-Moss was a case that started because a dealer tried to void a warranty on a car that had a supercharger on it when it wasn't the cause of the failure.

The case clearly states that warranties cannot be denied unless the dealer can prove anything the dealer/manufacturers did not install was the cause of the failure. It doesnt have to be just an aftermarket part.

Where in the world is that supercharger story from? The MM is a broad consumer warranty law, not just about vehicles or aftermarket parts. Source?

"The federal minimum standards for full warranties are waived if the warrantor can show that the problem associated with a warranted consumer product was caused by damage while in the possession of the consumer, or by unreasonable use, including a failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance."

Again, you guys can all go to court or arbitration against XYZ auto company and show them, out of your pocket, why the oil you used or whatever aftermarket part didn't cause the drama b/c I can assure you they have lots of lawyers that will show (real or not) that whatever you did did cause it so be ready with your crew!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act