Oils and Warranty

[Pablo]

I was reading it and no where does it say Hey you consumer you can use the incorrect oil that your engine was not designed for.

OF course if you use an oil that damages the engine, not covered. Period.

But if you use a non-specified oil and your seat heater burns your warrantied car to cinders , the manufacturer cannot deny warranty

AND

If you use an oil, say that is not API listed, and some engine parts fails, unrelated to lubrication, the manufacturer cannot deny warranty

Unknown why so many here struggle with this simple concept.

 

[TiGeo]

OF course if you use an oil that damages the engine, not covered. Period.

But if you use a non-specified oil and your seat heater burns your warrantied car to cinders , the manufacturer cannot deny warranty

AND

If you use an oil, say that is not API listed, and some engine parts fails, unrelated to lubrication, the manufacturer cannot deny warranty

Unknown why so many here struggle with this simple concept.

B/c folks here think walking into the dealer's service department hollering "Magnusson-Moss!!!" will somehow change the drama that can ensue from having a problem and having records indicating you used something that wasn't in accordance with the OEM. Yes, you are correct. Clearly on 1, I've had this direct experience with small issues handled under the VW warranty even though my car is heavily modified. The HVAC door motor had nothing to do with the ECU tune. But the blown tranny (if I had one) would likely be denied regardless of whatever I can try to show that it wasn't related to it. The part that is always left out on your point 2 is that sure, you are correct but this is a huge time/money endevor on your end to deal with this and the OEM is going to have a lot of muscle that you don't to push back.

 

[Pablo]

B/c folks here think walking into the dealer's service department hollering "Magnusson-Moss!!!" will somehow change the drama that can ensue from having a problem and having records indicating you used something that wasn't in accordance with the OEM. Yes, you are correct. Clearly on 1, I've had this direct experience with small issues handled under the VW warranty even though my car is heavily modified. The HVAC door motor had nothing to do with the ECU tune. But the blown tranny (if I had one) would likely be denied regardless of whatever I can try to show that it wasn't related to it. The part that is always left out on your point 2 is that sure, you are correct but this is a huge time/money endevor on your end to deal with this and the OEM is going to have a lot of muscle that you don't to push back.

Used to be dealers would question a customer every five years or so if they mentioned Amsoil. Amsoil would contact the dealer, then problem solved. Never happens anymore though.

Use a known good oil. No problem.

 

[Furious]

OF course if you use an oil that damages the engine, not covered. Period.

But if you use a non-specified oil and your seat heater burns your warrantied car to cinders , the manufacturer cannot deny warranty

AND

If you use an oil, say that is not API listed, and some engine parts fails, unrelated to lubrication, the manufacturer cannot deny warranty

Unknown why so many here struggle with this simple concept.

Lets say my engine was built to run 0w16 and I choose to run X unlicensed oil 0w40 and a rod bearing decides to leave the chat in court who has the advantage? The manufacturers lawyers will go to that judge and say hey judge this engine was designed to use 0w16 but we tested the oil and it turns out it was running the incorrect oil of which this engine was not designed for.

Who do you think the judge will side with?

 

[Pablo]

Lets say my engine was built to run 0w16 and I choose to run X unlicensed oil 0w40 and a rod bearing decides to leave the chat in court who has the advantage? The manufacturers lawyers will go to that judge and say hey judge this engine was designed to use 0w16 but we tested the oil and it turns out it was running the incorrect oil of which this engine was not designed for.

Who do you think the judge will side with?

Using the wrong viscosity is definitely a no-no

I never implied otherwise. Thanks

 

[kschachn]

Again, you guys can all go to court or arbitration against XYZ auto company and show them, out of your pocket, why the oil you used or whatever aftermarket part didn't cause the drama b/c I can ssure you they have lots of lawyers that will show (real or not) that whatever you did did cause it.

Drama or damage? That’s kind of the problem here. Lots of drama but so far no damage.

 

[kschachn]

Lets say my engine was built to run 0w16 and I choose to run X unlicensed oil 0w40 and a rod bearing decides to leave the chat in court who has the advantage? The manufacturers lawyers will go to that judge and say hey judge this engine was designed to use 0w16 but we tested the oil and it turns out it was running the incorrect oil of which this engine was not designed for.

Who do you think the judge will side with?

No engine is “built” to run 0W-16. Again this adds to the drama when people start off their little stories with great misconceptions.

No oil of a somewhat higher HT/HS will cause damage. Oils with insufficient film thickness may, and that’s what the warranty statement would apply to. But not the other way around.

 

[TiGeo]

Drama or damage? That’s kind of the problem here. Lots of drama but so far no damage.

Definately drama

Used to be dealers would question a customer every five years or so if they mentioned Amsoil. Amsoil would contact the dealer, then problem solved. Never happens anymore though.

Use a known good oil. No problem.

I don't disagree Pablo. K&N filters is another one...they guarantee that they will go to bat for you if an OEM denies a warranty claim if you use their air filters....these are kind of a grey area like the non-approved oils....it's somewhat of an OEM replacement but not like for like.

 

[wpod]

A lighter oil not thicker is better for breakin. And I am a heavier oil kind of guy.

Why is that especially considering the wear and heat and friction is at its highest it will ever by unless there is a catastrophic failure The manufacturer would have to prove that the HPL, Redline, Amsoil caused the problem.

 

[Furious]

Using the wrong viscosity is definitely a no-no

I never implied otherwise. Thanks

Fair enough we agree on that. Although 0w40 is often thrown around on this forum which is why it is used in this example.

The point I am making is the consumer will have a hard time getting the judge on their side if an oil is used of which the engine is not designed for and that can include many factors.

Now obviously Amsoil offers a written warranty that customers could fall back on which that is a big plus in my view and obviously Amsoil offers some licensed options which the high mileage oils do have my attention that might be on my to buy list soon.

But while under warranty it is just so much simpler to stick to a licensed oil with the correct specifications to avoid any issues at all.

 

[kschachn]

Fair enough we agree on that. Although 0w40 is often thrown around on this forum which is why it is used in this example.

The point I am making is the consumer will have a hard time getting the judge on their side if an oil is used of which the engine is not designed for and that can include many factors.

Now obviously Amsoil offers a written warranty that customers could fall back on which that is a big plus in my view and obviously Amsoil offers some licensed options which the high mileage oils do have my attention that might be on my to buy list soon.

But while under warranty it is just so much simpler to stick to a licensed oil with the correct specifications to avoid any issues at all.

Which engines will be damaged by a 40-grade? Winter rating be danged.

 

[Furious]

Which engines will be damaged by a 40-grade? Winter rating be danged.

The question is not which engines will be damaged, the question is how do you the consumer prove it didn't cause it in front of that judge.

 

[wpod]

The question is not which engines will be damaged, the question is how do you the consumer prove it didn't cause it in front of that judge.

It isn't the consumer that has to prove the oil CAUSED the damage.

 

[Furious]

It isn't the consumer that has to prove the oil CAUSED the damage.

The manufacturer already will have the advantage by simply showing you used the incorrect oil which the engine was not designed for.

 

[factorytuned2012]

I’d like to see actual evidence of multiple engine failures due to 0w16 and 20 oil.

 

[Mechanician]

Not really. It's only 1/3 of what they make with non warranty work. Mechanics really get the shaft on warranty work and hate it.

Many dealers do more warranty work, than they do customer pay work. Especially the ones that have a poor reputation.
Dealers have to be sure not to "campaign" warranty work, which the manufacturers have software to catch.
Management always makes money on warranty work, as long as the paper work doesn't "bounce".
Also I don't think you're up to date with the laws. Many techs are now loving warranty work.
https://www.seyfarth.com/news-insig...reimbursement-laws-in-first-half-of-2021.html
https://www.withum.com/resources/warranty-reimbursement-laws-its-time-for-an-update/

 

[kschachn]

I’d like to see actual evidence of multiple engine failures due to 0w16 and 20 oil.

That’s not the point of this discussion.

 

[TiGeo]

The manufacturer already will have the advantage by simply showing you used the incorrect oil which the engine was not designed for.

Correct, and they will have all of the technical experts to say as much. You will have to hire an expert witness that will go up against their technical folks and show that the oil wasn't the cause. It's not that you won't win that or can't win that it's what a PITA to deal with this from a time/money perspective.

 

[Pablo]

Thick v Thin.

Shut er down !!

 

[kschachn]

The manufacturer already will have the advantage by simply showing you used the incorrect oil which the engine was not designed for.

Only if it causes damage.

At least the Volkswagen dealership that I went to isn’t quite as ignorant. When they changed the oil under the free program I requested the use of 504 00 instead of 508 00. They didn’t argue or say anything other than “okay”. No protestations of the engine being “designed for” a grade and no dire warnings of damage.