Oh come on, Ferrari only makes performance cars they are not making mini vans and family coaches. they are a production car with a production engine. Expensive is relative to the depth of your pockets.
Oil recommendations 0w40
- Thread starter Ndx
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Here's my mongo Euro 8....4.0 W8 that is....Hmm. Mongo V-8’s ? Tsk,Tsk. Moving on.
Oh that sound....
What is special about extracting that much hp from 6.2ltr and supercharger?Not something special?
Again, popular bcs. it is the cheapest way to get into 700hp club, granted no one told them it is rolling on a platform that was developed when Micheal Douglas was still a young guy.
The last time I checked VW was not dropped by one company just to be bought by a hedge fund, to bankrupt and sold to another company, and then end up being part of the French company. I guess, really good quality so people just could not handle it?
Meanwhile VW paid $ 4.3 B in fines to the American government, then the E.U. jumped in and picked up another billion from BMW and VW. Your comments are way off topic. Shall we call it quits?
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OVERKILL
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Hey, no reason to turn this into a Chrysler bash-fest, that wasn't my intention with my comments about the inappropriateness of the SRT oil for Euro applications.
Some engines/applications are harder on oil than others and the HEMI doesn't appear to be very hard on oil. GM's approach with the ZR1 and CTS-V was the same, putting a blower on top of a relatively simple (but extremely durable) pushrod engine. It's a recipe that works and has been the foundation for many motorsports activities, dominating in Top Fuel and Pro Stock for example.
Whether you are a fan of the elegant complexity of a dual VVT DOHC mill or the brutish simplicity of a boosted pushrod setup, an enthusiast is an enthusiast and taking a piss on another guy's preference doesn't do the hobby any favours. That's not friendly rivalry, it's just being mean.
My point is that extracting 707hp from 6.2ltr supercharged engine is really not any achievement and it is popular because it is cheap.
But apparently, some people found it appropriate to think that somehow other brands are not worth of it.
So, just reminding of history.
Yes, VW had money to pay it. Actually just to be clear, the total cost is $40 billion, which VW had/has money for it. That is what happens when you actually achieve something.
So, 707 hp out of 6.2ltr supercharged engine is an achievement on par me stopping to have a beer at the local pub.
Achieved something. What did they achieve? They were criminals and they lost the 40 Billion you mentioned. Take your soccer mom car and achieve something.
OVERKILL
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But it isn't popular, lol, Chrysler went that way with the HEMI, GM didn't go quite as far with the LSx. Who else did it?
Also, the cars aren't extraordinarily cheap either, a Hellcat RedEye starts at $73K, which, while cheaper than an M5 at $103,000, certainly isn't pocket change and gets you roughly 200HP more. But of course the bimmer has nicer interior.
As I said, cubes and boost (or nitrous) is a popular choice for certain motorsports, and has worked on street engines for both Dodge and GM but that hasn't stopped them from doing other things as well. The Viper had a DOHC V10 for example, GM has had numerous 32V V8's. Ford went the DOHC supercharged route with the '03/04 Cobra, then the flat-plane V8 route with the GT350, but now they've brought back a pushrod mill (currently in the Super Duty) after going twin-turbo V6 in the Raptor and Ford GT, after originally using larger engines (the latter with a supercharger).
The Euro marques don't seem to bother to mess around with the cubes and pushrods route, and there's nothing wrong with that, I'm a fan of both approaches, as both have their benefits and detractors. Bringing this back to the topic, they also have different lubrication requirements, which has been my point all along, and why if an application calls for A40, you use an A40 lube.
73k for so much hp is kind of cheap, relatively speaking. Not that you will see on every corner, but all things considered, it is.
It is simple engine, old design, and add supercharger on such displacement and you extract so much hp. It requires oil that it requires because it is simple.
The Viper, SRT etc. all of them have this design bcs. it is cheap to utilize existing engines bcs. generally, these companies are not bothering with other aspects of performance: balance, handling etc. SRT might have a lot of hp, but it is not going to win any handling competition.
LOL. I am proud of my soccer mom's car. I do not have an inferiority complex that obviously comes with SRT.
OVERKILL
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It's a good value for that kind of performance, in the same sort of spirit as the Corvette, but a different audience clearly.
Well, that depends on how you look at it. DOHC engines have been around almost as long, Ford was producing DOHC hot valley engines in the 60's for example (Ford Indy Cammer) but for practicality, the pushrod engine's simplicity won-out. We see Ford doing a bit of backtracking on that right now with their new 7.3L pushrod engine in the Super Duty trucks, after introducing the big SOHC mill that also originally powered the Raptor.
A pushrod engine is far more compact and less complex. Yes, you are limited by only being able to advance or retard camshaft timing as a whole, rather than doing intake separate from exhaust like you can on a DOHC mill, but it isn't really any more limited than an SOHC one. Valve arrangement on your traditional wedge chamber has required larger bores (vs an OHC arrangement) to mitigate shrouding, but that's less of an issue on engines like the HEMI where the valves are oriented like on a pent-roof SOHC design.
Putting a blower on an OHC engine achieves the same function (see the 5.4L 2V in the F-150 Lightning and Harley trucks or the 4.6L DOHC engine in the 03/04 Cobra for example, or the 32V 5.4L engine in the first gen Ford GT), but because of the pushrod engine's compact size, you can put more displacement under the blower for less real estate, and that's an advantage in producing something that isn't super stressed, despite making some eye-opening power figures, because in terms of power density, it really isn't that high. Of course that ties into it being easy on oil, as does the use of a supercharger with its own oiling vs sharing the engine oil. The 03/04 Cobra and Lightning did not have exotic oil requirements for example, for the same reason, despite being OHC.
Yes, this also has the benefit of being less expensive to produce, all things considered.
No, as I said, the Viper had a DOHC V10, it has nothing in common with the Hellcat engine.
The 6.2L wasn't an existing engine though. Yes, it's based on the existing HEMI architecture but the reason they didn't just slap a blower on the big bore 6.4L is because they didn't feel it would have the durability under boost at the power figures they were looking for (840HP in the Demon). So, they set out to make a specific version that would, that's how the Hellcat mill came about. Yes, they can use the same camshaft blanks, rockers, lifters...etc, so there's lots of cost savings in parts that will transfer over, but many of the parts are also engine specific.
Eh, there are enough SRT-specific parts underpinning the SRT vehicles to have me contest that. They are all rolling on existing platforms, but then so is the M3, M5 and AMG 63 cars. They get their own suspension components (control arms, bushings, struts, tie-rods, hubs, brakes, axles, differentials...etc). The limiting factor is the platform itself and with the Charger/Challenger, that old Mercedes platform is very long in the tooth, same with the WK2 underpinning my Grand Cherokee, which was a joint development under Chrysler/Mercedes.
Now, do I think the Charger RedEye receives the same level of handling refinement, even given its proprietary suspension bits, that say an M5 or M6 gets? No, but the price reflects that. But they are definitely improved, and receive attention, beyond what the regular cars get, or did while SRT was still its own separate group, be interesting to see how that goes under Stellantis.
The Viper was always a capable handler, but it would kill you if you didn't know what you were doing. The Demon isn't meant to handle, it's setup for the 1/4 mile.
You might find this video amusing, it's a 2016 stock Hellcat on the 'ring:
OVERKILL
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Pretty sure the only guy interacting with you in this thread with an SRT is me, and I would assume you don't believe I'm suffering from an inferiority complex, or at least I hope that's not the case as that would be pretty disappointing.
LOL, common man, you know better.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
I do, that's why I said it
Gotta factor in who you are interacting with. As I said, I'm pretty sure the only guy with an SRT in this thread is me, so that dig, while intended for Snag, actually missed the mark
I get that price reflects that, but generally, as you said, they are old in the tooth. They are rolling on a platform that is almost 30 years old.
Now, is that bad? No, I think it was actually a very good strategy. But people cannot brag about "good ole" V8 etc, etc, and then when you tell them that there is nothing special getting that hp from that displacement, they get worked up.
As for M3, M5 yes, they roll on joint platforms with other vehicles, but the difference is those are new platforms, and even regular models are well balanced etc. But yes, price reflects that.
OVERKILL
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Exactly. We are in agreement.
Love this discussion. The two cars in my driveway: 300 Hemi C and a turbo VW GTI.
Interesting mix! That GTI with a tune/bolt-ons will eat that 300....at least from a roll!
