Amsoil EFO 0w40 Euro Oil

[kschachn]

Would you say that flashpoint is not an accurate indication of whether or not there's fuel contamination?
If VOA flashpoint is 455f and my sample reads 430f, can't be much fuel in there, me thinks.

It's never accurate and the ASTM test indicates it should be used only for screening purposes. Even then, flash point measurement has a low reproducibility compared to other property measurements and when another property is estimated off of this inherently imprecise value you get the problem with this method.

Plus we have just seen various results from them to be inaccurate, not just flash point. If you want an accurate fuel dilution measurement you won't get it unless it is measured directly.

Mechanical shear of the VM is something that is blamed on here quite often when in reality there is no definitive determination that it exists. Without accurate fuel measurements one has no idea why there is a viscosity deviation. Fuel dilution is far more common a cause. One can eliminate VM mechanical shear if you use a no-VII oil.

 

[scrllock]

@scrllock here are just my data including track use, I went back to my notes and cleaned this up a bit. The one thing to keep in mind on those earlier track day changes with low iron numbers on regular ol' oils is that I was a n00b and driving on all seasons just getting my feet wet on the track. 12/20 oil change - first time on track, 1 actual day (4x24 min sessions that event due to some brake issues [street pads]). Hard to compare that to 8 days of more advanced skill level driving this year driving where I'm now pushing it at a decent clip. As someone said, my data are a bit challenging b/c lots going on/not consistent/layers of things that both increase/decrease the results but it's what I have. I'd wager than the HPL will look better back to back with all other variables constant vs. either of the Liquimoly oils sitting on my work bench ready for changes in my other vehicles coming up.

View attachment 252639

yeah, i just can't draw a conclusion from that data given the leaks and engine work. lot of contamination going on. driving style changed. etc.

Would you say that flashpoint is not an accurate indication of whether or not there's fuel contamination?
If VOA flashpoint is 455f and my sample reads 430f, can't be much fuel in there, me thinks.
Note: I'm using a catch can that just collects water, so far.

BS uses cleveland open cup and kschachn mentioned some of the issues with that. my understanding is that even blackstone says it's not accurate at >10% dilution, plus it is not a good test for hygroscopic fuels like ethanol.

Many cases of BS used oil analysis showing <2% fuel compared to gas chromatography showing much higher rates. On a tuned turbo GDI motor running e85, I'd be very skeptical of a <0.5% result.

 

[TiGeo]

yeah, i just can't draw a conclusion from that data given the leaks and engine work. lot of contamination going on. driving style changed. etc.


BS uses cleveland open cup and kschachn mentioned some of the issues with that. my understanding is that even blackstone says it's not accurate at >10% dilution, plus it is not a good test for hygroscopic fuels like ethanol.

Many cases of BS used oil analysis showing <2% fuel compared to gas chromatography showing much higher rates. On a tuned turbo GDI motor running e85, I'd be very skeptical of a <0.5% result.

We'll see the how next run looks - I'll pull a sample after the next time at VIR, should be in either March or May (and likely a few autoX) depending on which I do..May is 3 days with a TT, March 2 and weather at VIR is shifty in March so likely won't decided until the last minute. Should be 4-5K miles at that point. I just find the data thing interesting but I'm a scientist so go figure.

 

[doverlabs]

My issue with SS 0W-40 in a Euro application is that Amsoil does not claim that it meets or is suitable for ACEA A3/B3/B4 or any of the Euro automaker approvals.

Worked fine in my tuned Golf.

0w-40 Euro FS #1-4. SS for #5

 

[OVERKILL]

Worked fine in my tuned Golf.

0w-40 Euro FS #1-4. SS for #5

View attachment 316318

You can see how the AW additive levels are MUCH lower, 629ppm of phosphorous vs the ~800ppm in the other samples.

 

[doverlabs]

Yeah based on some of conjecture, I figured I’d add my Amsoil results ;-). The wear was lower with SS, moly, B, Magnesium were higher despite Phosphorous being lower.

 

[tired]

Worked fine in my tuned Golf.

0w-40 Euro FS #1-4. SS for #5

View attachment 316318

I’m curious. Did Amsoil recommend this? Did you talk to them about your application?

 

[doverlabs]

No I haven’t. I’m tuned and Amsoil doesn’t make recommendations that don’t fit the mold.

 

[kschachn]

Yeah based on some of conjecture, I figured I’d add my Amsoil results ;-). The wear was lower with SS, moly, B, Magnesium were higher despite Phosphorous being lower.

And you can conclusively determine that this is due to the oil?

 

[doverlabs]

And you can conclusively determine that this is due to the oil?

Wear levels normalized. I actually expected wear levels to be higher as the additive packages clash with each other (if they do).

So, we shall see where the wear continues to land in future intervals.

 

[kschachn]

Wear levels normalized. I actually expected wear levels to be higher as the additive packages clash with each other (if they do).

So, we shall see where the wear continues to land in future intervals.

What else influences the spectrographic results besides the oil? Are all those influences inferior to that one variable?

 

[tired]

No I haven’t. I’m tuned and Amsoil doesn’t make recommendations that don’t fit the mold.

Ah ok. I knew they had a technical hotline you could call and ask.

@Pablo may be able to offer more nuanced advice.

 

[altaylar]

There are already numerous high quality answers here, so no need for me to dilute them. But one tangential input i have is that, changing between brands regularly may not be the optimal strategy. If one really needs/wants to move between products across the year, i would advise to stick with the same brand/product line. That would increase your chances of better ad pack compatibility.

What i mean here is, lets say, if I want 40 grade for the summer, and 20 grade for the winter, i would rather stick with Mobil 1 ESP for both of those viscosities than Mobil 1 0w40 and then Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w20, even though those two are kind of my favorite ones for those viscosities

 

[scrllock]

0w40 SS is a DexosR, non-RC formula oil. I agree that this isn't a very scientific way to draw any sort of positive conclusion but anecdotally I've seen plenty of people tear down built/tuned vw/audi motors on this oil and haven't seen one with visible wear as a result. Maybe there might be slightly more deposits from the heavy moly pack, but you wouldn't see that from a used oil analysis.

edit: not actually DexosR approved, because it's AMSOil, but that style addive package

 

[tired]

0w40 SS is a DexosR, non-RC oil. I agree that this isn't a very scientific way to draw any sort of positive conclusion but anecdotally I've seen plenty of people tear down built/tuned vw/audi motors on this oil and haven't seen one with visible wear as a result. Maybe there might be slightly more deposits from the heavy moly pack, but you wouldn't see that from a used oil analysis.

Interesting. Thanks for the data point. I personally would be nervous to run it in a Euro engine but glad others have blazed that trail.

 

[doverlabs]

0w40 SS is a DexosR, non-RC formula oil. I agree that this isn't a very scientific way to draw any sort of positive conclusion but anecdotally I've seen plenty of people tear down built/tuned vw/audi motors on this oil and haven't seen one with visible wear as a result. Maybe there might be slightly more deposits from the heavy moly pack, but you wouldn't see that from a used oil analysis.

edit: not actually DexosR approved, because it's AMSOil, but that style addive package

You mention non-RC oil but it has higher Boron and higher Moly, which I thought were friction reducing additives. Then again, knowing chemistry enough to get into trouble, I would concede that there are probably different compounds being available for use that may not be friction reducing.

 

[scrllock]

You mention non-RC oil but it has higher Boron and higher Moly, which I thought were friction reducing additives. Then again, knowing chemistry enough to get into trouble, I would concede that there are probably different compounds being available for use that may not be friction reducing.

Those are un-related. non-RC = higher HTHS and thus safer for euro applications where this is required.

 

[altaylar]

Those are un-related. non-RC = higher HTHS and thus safer for euro applications where this is required.

Precisely. Even though we mostly talk about viscosities, thanks to SAE naming, actually using HTHS would make more sense when choosing oil.
In my mind, resources conserving oil are half a grade lower, as if, lets say, 0w40 RC oil is actually 0w35 oil. Not technically correct, but sort of gives an intuition

 

[kschachn]

Precisely. Even though we mostly talk about viscosities, thanks to SAE naming, actually using HTHS would make more sense when choosing oil.
In my mind, resources conserving oil are half a grade lower, as if, lets say, 0w40 RC oil is actually 0w35 oil. Not technically correct, but sort of gives an intuition

This is a point that user @Shannow has made for a long time.

 

[altaylar]

This is a point that user @Shannow has made for a long time.

Someone needed to make a point for that? I thought that was obvious. Otherwise, grade is about the speed of flow, it is not really that much related to protection (i.e. film thickness) of the fluid