Oil recommendations 0w40

[Snagglefoot]

Looks the same as before, lol. I definitely wouldn't use it in anything that requires a Euro approval like A40 or LL-01, the AW additive levels are too low and the Noack is too high.

Let’s pull up the data of M1 0w40 and the Pennzoil Ultra 0w40. VOA’s and NOACK. I’m playing Devil’s Advocate here. If the motor oil is good for a 700 HP engine at 6300 rpm I don’t care about Euro oils. Editors note: I have a Euro oil in my 6.0 Chevy right now but wish I had the Pennzoil Ultra. Also we need the NOACK for the SP version and the source of the data.

 

[OVERKILL]

View attachment 91814View attachment 91815

The original SRT oil was M1 0w-40 (a Euro oil).

They want the SRT oil changed every 6 months (which is nuts).

The SRT Hellcat engine uses a supercharger with its own oiling system (the engine oil isn't heated by the blower), where, let's say we consider the OP's engine, he indicated a twin turbo, which of course are lubricated by engine oil, so it is exposed to more heat there. The SRT oil isn't called for in any application with a pair of hairdryers and it's not part of the Chrysler spec.

The Porsche Cayenne Turbo (which, IIRC, the OP owns) is 500 to 570HP (Turbo S) depending on the year (2008+) from a 4.8L V8; 104 to 119HP/L.

The standard Hellcat at 707HP is 114HP/L, the Redeye 128.

The current Cayenne Turbo is a 4.0L V8 producing 541HP (135HP/L) while the Turbo GT extracts 631HP from the same 4.0L V8; 158HP/L.

So one must consider that Porsche is always pushing the envelope on power density and their approval process (which is extensive) reflects that, including testing that is turbo specific, and also simulated lapping of the Nurburgring.

I'd have no hesitation using an A40 lube in an SRT application (and in fact I do), but I wouldn't use the SRT oil in an A40 application.

 

[OVERKILL]

Let’s pull up the data of M1 0w40 and the Pennzoil Ultra 0w40. VOA’s and NOACK. I’m playing Devil’s Advocate here. If the motor oil is good for a 700 HP engine at 6300 rpm I don’t care about Euro oils. Editors note: I have a Euro oil in my 6.0 Chevy right now but wish I had the Pennzoil Ultra. Also we need the NOACK for the SP version and the source of the data.

M1 0w-40 Noack is 8.8%, back when it was SN and Shell still published it, the Noack for PU 0w-40 was 13%, meaning it wouldn't pass Mercedes, BMW (or ACEA in general) or any of the VW and Porsche approvals which all have a 10% cut-off.

SRT 0w-40 VOA (SN vintage):

Pennzoil SRT 0w40

Auto Zone clearanced this oil at $2 a bottle. Myself, I have enough of it to change oil for 3 years now. Here is a virgin sample that might help people.

bobistheoilguy.com

Looks like your standard SN/GF-5 5w-30 additive package with ~700ppm phosphorous, 800ppm zinc.

Recent (2020) Mobil 1 FS VOA, also from Blackstone:

Mobil 1 0W40 Euro VOA

From the mart of wall. My baseline for a UOA coming up in a few mos. to compare how this looks vs. the Liquimoly oils I've been using/abusing in my Sportwagen.

bobistheoilguy.com

It's heavier. Has a slightly higher flashpoint and considerably more phosphorous at ~1,000ppm and zinc at around 1,100ppm. It also includes some Boron (Mobil uses borated esters for FM and AW). It's simply a more robust oil.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Here is a 2020 UOA or Mobil 1 Euro 0w40. Thanks to TiGEO. Ha ha we posted at almost the same time.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Can’t use the 2013 version of the Pennzoil VOA. It’s too old. The Kinematic viscosity is now 13.7 cSt.

 

[OVERKILL]

Can’t use the 2013 version of the Pennzoil VOA. It’s too old. The Kinematic viscosity is now 13.7 cSt.

That's always been the case:

Yet it didn't come in at 13.7 when Blackstone tested it, so that's on either Shell or Blackstone.

 

[OVERKILL]

Here's the current PDS to compare to the 2014 one, you can see the product hasn't changed:

 

[Snagglefoot]

Ok. Just by coincidence I posted a VOA of the SP Ultra 5w30 and the calcium is way down below 1300 ppm. I imagine the 0w40 is also down low. A new VOA of the 0w40 is warranted. Let’s see why Stelantis is willing to put this oil in that 700 hp engine. Over and out.

 

[OVERKILL]

Ok. Just by coincidence I posted a VOA of the SP Ultra 5w30 and the calcium is way down below 1300 ppm. I imagine the 0w40 is also down low. A new VOA of the 0w40 is warranted. Let’s see why Stelantis is willing to put this oil in that 700 hp engine. Over and out.

Note that it isn't ILSAC GF-6, and none of the applications that call for it are direct injection, let alone turbo direct injection, so I can't see a reason for them to drop calcium. Remember, this is an oil that's specifically made for the HEMI's in 6.4L and 6.2L displacements, no other engines. The Euro oils all have to conform to the LSPI limits imposed by the OEM, like say Mercedes, which has its own LSPI test.

FCA, now Stellantis is willing to put it in that engine for the same reason M1 0w-40 was likely overkill for it previously. These engines aren't super hard on oil. They aren't spinning to the moon, they aren't insanely power dense, and the manufacturer stipulates a short change interval of 6 months, even if you've only gone 2 miles. The Corvette, even the ZR1, spec'd Mobil 1 5w-30 until the ESP 0w-40 replaced it quite recently (though they wanted 15w-50 on the track), which was also just a plain-Jane SN/GF-5 additive pack oil, and also not a super high-winding pushrod engine, even with a blower on it.

 

[Snagglefoot]

SP includes a test for LSPI.

 

[OVERKILL]

SP includes a test for LSPI.

View attachment 91853

And if it passed them, no reason to adjust.

Note the limit is 8 events per test, 5 max as an average over 4 tests. As I said, none of the applications that call for this oil are GDI or TGDI, so even if it's right at the limit, there's nothing really to motivate a reformulation and we know that the properties of the oil itself haven't changed even if they did tweak calcium and magnesium levels per your posit.

I'm going to bed now as I'm finding this conversation increasingly frustrating. Goodnight.

 

[edyvw]

SP includes a test for LSPI.

View attachment 91853

Absolutely useless test. It is done on Ford 2.3 turbo engine which does not have an LSPI issue. The same goes for the timing chain test done on the Toyota engine that does not have a timing chain issue.
LSPI test that one wants to go after are tests done on engines that oil is designed for, MB229.52, BMW updated LL approvals, updated VW 504.00/507.00, VW511.00, Porsche C30/40.
Pennzoil for SRT is (edit-mod) among oils that are mentioned here. Why it is recommended by the manufacturer really does not matter. It is not like SRT, Hellcat are the pinnacle of technology.

 

[Snagglefoot]

When the Hellcat came out it was the highest HP production engine in the world. .

 

[riggaz]

Hi Friends,

Since I’m currently in Canada ( oil deals are limited )

Castrol 0w40 is no longer available in large jugs around me.

Engines
V8 DI 4.8 2 turbos
V8 4.8 NA DI

Technically certs to meet LL-01? and A-40 ( but I’m ok with not having one as either will have stout oil )

Options:

M1 0w40
Fuchs 0w40 SuperSyn Long Life
Amsoil ?
LM

Fuchs is best price

Thx

What's your preference in terms of rating, price or teir?

 

[Snagglefoot]

Until we see a VOA done on the SP version of Pennzoil Platinum Ultra 0W40 I am going to pull out of the discussion. Carry on.

 

[TiGeo]

Hi Friends,

Since I’m currently in Canada ( oil deals are limited )

Castrol 0w40 is no longer available in large jugs around me.

Engines
V8 DI 4.8 2 turbos
V8 4.8 NA DI

Technically certs to meet LL-01? and A-40 ( but I’m ok with not having one as either will have stout oil )

Options:

M1 0w40
Fuchs 0w40 SuperSyn Long Life
Amsoil ?
LM

Fuchs is best price

Thx

Is the 0W rating a necessity or can you do the 5W40s with those approvals?

 

[edyvw]

When the Hellcat came out it was the highest HP production engine in the world. .

And? What that has to do with technology?

 

[dnewton3]

And technology assures us of what? A "better" engine???? There are a lot of engines that truly are high-tech and wonderful. Some of them are very reliable. Others, not so much. The BMX 4.4L for example ... The Hot Vee engines seem great, until they start to fail, cost an arm/leg to fix, and make troubleshooting very difficult.

I'm not saying high-tech engines are all bad; that's clearly not true. But high-tech does not assure anything other than it's different from the lower-tech alternatives. High-tech does not have sole ownership of high-power, nor high-reliablility; those can be found with lesser-tech choices.

If you need a powerful engine in a power-dense package, then you're pretty much have to rely on some form of forced induction to get you there, or ultra-high rpm. Both of those are going to have a fairly robust tech package to support the requirements. But that choice of power in a limited space package also brings challenges that are likely to compromise it's reliability.

So if power density is the primary goal, tech can help get you there. But not without compromises elsewhere. If you desire other things over power density (say reliability and/or cost containment), then tech often ain't the right choice.

 

[OVERKILL]

When the Hellcat came out it was the highest HP production engine in the world. .

High HP isn't the same as high power density. Note the two current Porsche engines I mentioned that both have much higher power density (HP/L) using a pair of turbo's and if the OP's is a turbo S, even if it's ~2008 vintage, it has higher power density than the Hellcat engine did on introduction.

Generally, the more power dense an application is, the more hard it is on oil, particularly DOHC twin-turbo rigs with tons of timing chains and the turbos cooking the lubricant. Add high RPM to the mix and its even worse.

 

[TiGeo]

High HP isn't the same as high power density. Note the two current Porsche engines I mentioned that both have much higher power density (HP/L) using a pair of turbo's and if the OP's is a turbo S, even if it's ~2008 vintage, it has higher power density than the Hellcat engine did on introduction.

Generally, the more power dense an application is, the more hard it is on oil, particularly DOHC twin-turbo rigs with tons of timing chains and the turbos cooking the lubricant. Add high RPM to the mix and its even worse.

Hell my 1.8 is at 200hp/L+!