No Love for Castrol Syntec?
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I'm sure you'll let me know if I'm wrong, but I believe the difference between German Castrol and its American counterpart relates principally to the European ACEA specifications for diesel and direct-injection engines and the fact that GC is available in a 5W-60 viscosity. The API service specifications are otherwise identical, I believe. As for the "sludged up 335i's" that SnakeOil referred to, that was a direct consequence of BMW's decision to import its turbocharged cars initially without the (expensive) engine oil coolers which were standard equipment on their European counterparts. BMWUSA responded to the engine failures by adding oil coolers to the cars imported to this country and increasing the engine-oil specifications for 335i engines to 5W-60 weight. That viscosity oil isn't produced in the United States, and consequently it must be imported. I don't know of another engine in service in this country that requires it. In any event, I doubt that BMW would have continued to specify Castrol's synthetic oil if they believed the company's products were the cause of the engine problems they incurred.
German Castrol is also available in a 0w30 which Syntec isn't available in.
I doubt the 10K+ OCI's helped out either...
SO I saw 0w30 German Castrol syntec at pep boys for 6.79 quart. Its the same price as M1 0w and cheaper than edge. Is it better than edge? How does GC 0w30 compare to M1 0w30?
I understand that the best M1 is the 0w version since there is less mineral content of the entire m1 line.
Does anyone know the how m1 mineral content compares to GC?
I too was thinking GC 0w30 may be better than m1 0w30 since it carries the ACEA A3,B3 specs and M1 only has ACEA A1/B1-04. My understanding is that ACEA A3,B3 is a "harder" test and only oils with better HTHS performance get this certification.
What do you guys think?
I understand that the best M1 is the 0w version since there is less mineral content of the entire m1 line.
Does anyone know the how m1 mineral content compares to GC?
I too was thinking GC 0w30 may be better than m1 0w30 since it carries the ACEA A3,B3 specs and M1 only has ACEA A1/B1-04. My understanding is that ACEA A3,B3 is a "harder" test and only oils with better HTHS performance get this certification.
What do you guys think?
You cannot directly compare Castrol Syntec 0W-30 with Edge in the US, since so far Edge is only available in 5W-30 and 10W-30 grades in the US.
Originally Posted By: SnakeOil
When I drained out M1 in the past it was a dark amber and was still transparent. The first and second Syntec runs I did had the oil coming out darker than Charlie Murphy's a**.
I have a different view on this.... I see it as Syntec doing a better job of cleaning than the M1 (and maybe even cleaning up after the M1). I've also seen 5W-30 come out darker than 10W-30 in the same engine on a similar change interval. The thinner oil does seem to do a better job of picking up/dispersing/carrying soot particles. The US Syntec grades seem to be on the light side (more below). I think they went that way, in part, to bolster their MPG claims.
I've been using Castrol products since '79. I was skeptical of the Syntec. However, I made the change from GTX in both of my cars. It did a tremendous job of cleaning out the second car I had bought used and I documented the tail end of the MPG gains (as well as multiple UOAs-which I think I have one posted here somewhere). I was seeing jumps of 1-2 MPG after each change w/the Syntec, till it finally plateaued considerably above EPA spec. Using it in the 1st car is bringing it's MPG back into line, too
I'm making the move to US Edge on the 2nd car and will see how it does (it doesn't strike me as much different than the Syntec, except that it has a PAO component). I will note that the plain US 5W-30 Syntec is on the light side and I still do an expedited OCI of 2.5K. It does appear to thin a bit, even @ 2.5K. As I do notice a difference after each OC. So, you might consider a mix of Syntec 5W-30/10W-30 or 10W-30 for higher OCIs.
When I drained out M1 in the past it was a dark amber and was still transparent. The first and second Syntec runs I did had the oil coming out darker than Charlie Murphy's a**.
I have a different view on this.... I see it as Syntec doing a better job of cleaning than the M1 (and maybe even cleaning up after the M1). I've also seen 5W-30 come out darker than 10W-30 in the same engine on a similar change interval. The thinner oil does seem to do a better job of picking up/dispersing/carrying soot particles. The US Syntec grades seem to be on the light side (more below). I think they went that way, in part, to bolster their MPG claims.
I've been using Castrol products since '79. I was skeptical of the Syntec. However, I made the change from GTX in both of my cars. It did a tremendous job of cleaning out the second car I had bought used and I documented the tail end of the MPG gains (as well as multiple UOAs-which I think I have one posted here somewhere). I was seeing jumps of 1-2 MPG after each change w/the Syntec, till it finally plateaued considerably above EPA spec. Using it in the 1st car is bringing it's MPG back into line, too
I'm making the move to US Edge on the 2nd car and will see how it does (it doesn't strike me as much different than the Syntec, except that it has a PAO component). I will note that the plain US 5W-30 Syntec is on the light side and I still do an expedited OCI of 2.5K. It does appear to thin a bit, even @ 2.5K. As I do notice a difference after each OC. So, you might consider a mix of Syntec 5W-30/10W-30 or 10W-30 for higher OCIs.Originally Posted By: 2way
Originally Posted By: SnakeOil
When I drained out M1 in the past it was a dark amber and was still transparent. The first and second Syntec runs I did had the oil coming out darker than Charlie Murphy's a**.
I have a different view on this.... I see it as Syntec doing a better job of cleaning than the M1 (and maybe even cleaning up after the M1). I've also seen 5W-30 come out darker than 10W-30 in the same engine on a similar change interval. The thinner oil does seem to do a better job of picking up/dispersing/carrying soot particles. The US Syntec grades seem to be on the light side (more below). I think they went that way, in part, to bolster their MPG claims.
I've been using Castrol products since '79. I was skeptical of the Syntec. However, I made the change from GTX in both of my cars. It did a tremendous job of cleaning out the second car I had bought used and I documented the tail end of the MPG gains (as well as multiple UOAs-which I think I have one posted here somewhere). I was seeing jumps of 1-2 MPG after each change w/the Syntec, till it finally plateaued considerably above EPA spec. Using it in the 1st car is bringing it's MPG back into line, too I'm making the move to US Edge on the 2nd car and will see how it does (it doesn't strike me as much different than the Syntec, except that it has a PAO component). I will note that the plain US 5W-30 Syntec is on the light side and I still do an expedited OCI of 2.5K. It does appear to thin a bit, even @ 2.5K. As I do notice a difference after each OC. So, you might consider a mix of Syntec 5W-30/10W-30 or 10W-30 for higher OCIs.
Remember that this is dependant upon a lot of different variables which I doubt were constant during the two oil uses.
Originally Posted By: SnakeOil
When I drained out M1 in the past it was a dark amber and was still transparent. The first and second Syntec runs I did had the oil coming out darker than Charlie Murphy's a**.
I have a different view on this.... I see it as Syntec doing a better job of cleaning than the M1 (and maybe even cleaning up after the M1). I've also seen 5W-30 come out darker than 10W-30 in the same engine on a similar change interval. The thinner oil does seem to do a better job of picking up/dispersing/carrying soot particles. The US Syntec grades seem to be on the light side (more below). I think they went that way, in part, to bolster their MPG claims.
I've been using Castrol products since '79. I was skeptical of the Syntec. However, I made the change from GTX in both of my cars. It did a tremendous job of cleaning out the second car I had bought used and I documented the tail end of the MPG gains (as well as multiple UOAs-which I think I have one posted here somewhere). I was seeing jumps of 1-2 MPG after each change w/the Syntec, till it finally plateaued considerably above EPA spec. Using it in the 1st car is bringing it's MPG back into line, too
I'm making the move to US Edge on the 2nd car and will see how it does (it doesn't strike me as much different than the Syntec, except that it has a PAO component). I will note that the plain US 5W-30 Syntec is on the light side and I still do an expedited OCI of 2.5K. It does appear to thin a bit, even @ 2.5K. As I do notice a difference after each OC. So, you might consider a mix of Syntec 5W-30/10W-30 or 10W-30 for higher OCIs.Remember that this is dependant upon a lot of different variables which I doubt were constant during the two oil uses.
But yet Castrol Edge proudly boasts it meets GM4718m. Syntec doesn't. Pure and simple.
I need to correct something I wrote the other day. We were discussing Castrol (Edge, Syntec and GTX), when I strayed off point and wrote (among other things) that BMW's 335i required 5W-60 weight synthetic oil. I was wrong in several regards. On another thread, Leonard629 advised me that only the current M-series cars require German Castrol TWS 10W-60 weight oil; that the 335i's only require GC 0W-30, which other posters have noted has a greater viscosity range and HTHS specification (e.g., 12.2 cst@100c and HTHS greater than 3.5@150c) than the Castrol 5W-30 manufactured here. The one good thing that has come of my errors is that I've learned a lot more about German Castrol in the past two days.
Originally Posted By: Gurney
... that the 335i's only require GC 0W-30...
Are you sure about the 0W-30 requirement? I thought most of the BMW's spec'd the 5W-30 made by Castrol for BMW which is much thicker than the normal Castrol Syntec 5W-30 found at an autoparts store.
... that the 335i's only require GC 0W-30...
Are you sure about the 0W-30 requirement? I thought most of the BMW's spec'd the 5W-30 made by Castrol for BMW which is much thicker than the normal Castrol Syntec 5W-30 found at an autoparts store.
Originally Posted By: AndyH
Originally Posted By: Gurney
... that the 335i's only require GC 0W-30...
Are you sure about the 0W-30 requirement? I thought most of the BMW's spec'd the 5W-30 made by Castrol for BMW which is much thicker than the normal Castrol Syntec 5W-30 found at an autoparts store.
No, Andy, I'm not sure about the 0W-30 requirement. I based my earlier correction on input from Leonardo in a VOA regarding Castrol's TWS 10W-60. But, as I've learned, the "correct" oil weight for the BMW 335i engine apparently has been, and may still be, the subject of considerable controvery in the BMW community. See, e.g., http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=981162&fpart=1. I don't own a 335i, so at this point I defer to those who do. I agree with you that German Castrol 5W-30 is a different product than more common 5W-30 Castrol produced here.
Originally Posted By: Gurney
... that the 335i's only require GC 0W-30...
Are you sure about the 0W-30 requirement? I thought most of the BMW's spec'd the 5W-30 made by Castrol for BMW which is much thicker than the normal Castrol Syntec 5W-30 found at an autoparts store.
No, Andy, I'm not sure about the 0W-30 requirement. I based my earlier correction on input from Leonardo in a VOA regarding Castrol's TWS 10W-60. But, as I've learned, the "correct" oil weight for the BMW 335i engine apparently has been, and may still be, the subject of considerable controvery in the BMW community. See, e.g., http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=981162&fpart=1. I don't own a 335i, so at this point I defer to those who do. I agree with you that German Castrol 5W-30 is a different product than more common 5W-30 Castrol produced here.
My late brother use to run Amsoil in his 67 GTO. Then for some reason, his favorite mechanic changed the oil to this Castrol Syntec right before I picked the car up. I just recently had a fresh unused sample of it tested and the Zinc and Phosphorus came back as 648/545 respectively. ***? These ole muscle cars want much higher numbers. So as you can imagine, I have not fired the engine since. Hope to decide on another brand today or tomorrow.
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