Castrol Edge 0W-30 (API-SP) vs. Castrol Edge 0W-30 LL

john_pifer

john_pifer

Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
5,428
Location
Dickson, TN.
What’s the difference between Castrol Edge 0W-30 (API-SP) and Castrol Edge 0W-30 LL?

I haven’t been able to find much about the “LL” version.

I did seem to locate the PD sheets for each, and the non-LL, API-SP version shows to have a VI of 182, while the LL version shows 205.

Hot viscosities are similar at 12.3, however, cold viscosities differ, with the non-LL version advertised at 68, and the LL version at 61, with a correspondingly lower pour point, which makes sense.

I assume that the LL version is using a thinner base oil with more VII/VM, while the API-SP stuff has a thicker base oil with less VII/VM.

I’m interested in knowing more about these oils.

What sparked my curiosity is a Reddit post on r/Elantra N, in which a member posted a photo of the top of what appears to be a 55-gal drum of the Castrol Edge 0W-30 LL. He said he took the photo at the dealer, and asked whether this was the correct oil.

(There’s been a lot of controversy in the Elantra/Veloster/Kona N community about whether Hyundai dealerships are actually using the oil grade that is specified in the manual, which is ILSAC GF-6, API-SN+ or SP, 0W-30.

And many dealerships have been caught putting basically whatever they want or whatever they have, including 0W-20, into these cars, which are high-output, TGDI engines. And, now, it appears that this dealer is using Castrol Edge LL 0W-30, which, it would seem, does not meet API-SN+?

(BTW, I plan to run an ACEA C3 oil in my Elantra N, but I’d prefer it to be API-SP approved for the lower Ca content.)

Is there a retail version of this oil? Or is it just sold in bulk? I did a quick search and wasn’t able to find it in retail bottled form.
IMG_4735.webp


I know that both of these Castrol 0W-30 oils are ACEA C3, mid-SAPS formulations.

I am curious about base oil composition and add packs, specifically calcium content (LSPI).
 
Edge 0W-30 is A3/B4.

There has been an Edge 5W-30 LL (now known as Edge 5W-30 K) for a while now that is C3, VW 504/507.

I have not seen the 0W-30 LL product here in the US. When Walmart had the 5W-30 LL available for $25 per jug, I used it often in all of my cars.
 
One product seems to be positioned for Euro market while the other the API American market. I think you've done some digging on this & that seems to be what I see. Based on that picture LL doesn't have any API approvals so it will not meet SP. That LL being a C3 product I think it would work just fine in that application. If you want to follow the manual get the API SP version.
 
john_pifer said:
What’s the difference between Castrol Edge 0W-30 (API-SP) and Castrol Edge 0W-30 LL?

I haven’t been able to find much about the “LL” version.

I did seem to locate the PD sheets for each, and the non-LL, API-SP version shows to have a VI of 182, while the LL version shows 205.

Hot viscosities are similar at 12.3, however, cold viscosities differ, with the non-LL version advertised at 68, and the LL version at 61, with a correspondingly lower pour point, which makes sense.

I assume that the LL version is using a thinner base oil with more VII/VM, while the API-SP stuff has a thicker base oil with less VII/VM.

I’m interested in knowing more about these oils.

What sparked my curiosity is a Reddit post on r/Elantra N, in which a member posted a photo of the top of what appears to be a 55-gal drum of the Castrol Edge 0W-30 LL. He said he took the photo at the dealer, and asked whether this was the correct oil.

(There’s been a lot of controversy in the Elantra/Veloster/Kona N community about whether Hyundai dealerships are actually using the oil grade that is specified in the manual, which is ILSAC GF-6, API-SN+ or SP, 0W-30.

And many dealerships have been caught putting basically whatever they want or whatever they have, including 0W-20, into these cars, which are high-output, TGDI engines. And, now, it appears that this dealer is using Castrol Edge LL 0W-30, which, it would seem, does not meet API-SN+?

(BTW, I plan to run an ACEA C3 oil in my Elantra N, but I’d prefer it to be API-SP approved for the lower Ca content.)

Is there a retail version of this oil? Or is it just sold in bulk? I did a quick search and wasn’t able to find it in retail bottled form.
View attachment 233374

I know that both of these Castrol 0W-30 oils are ACEA C3, mid-SAPS formulations.

I am curious about base oil composition and add packs, specifically calcium content (LSPI).
Click to expand...
Well the drum states suitable for 229.52 which entails the Mercedes Benz LSPI test.

Their PDS states "Warranted by Castrol to be completely suitable for use in vehicles where the following specifications apply: MB 229.52"
 
drtyler said:
Edge 0W-30 is A3/B4.

There has been an Edge 5W-30 LL (now known as Edge 5W-30 K) for a while now that is C3, VW 504/507.

I have not seen the 0W-30 LL product here in the US. When Walmart had the 5W-30 LL available for $25 per jug, I used it often in all of my cars.
Click to expand...
No, it’s listed on the PDS as ACEA C2, C3:


Both the LL and non-LL versions are ACEA C2/C3 (mid-SAPS).
 
fantastic said:
One product seems to be positioned for Euro market while the other the API American market. I think you've done some digging on this & that seems to be what I see. Based on that picture LL doesn't have any API approvals so it will not meet SP. That LL being a C3 product I think it would work just fine in that application. If you want to follow the manual get the API SP version.
Click to expand...
Doesn’t meet SP. So it probably has high Ca.
 
BMWTurboDzl said:
Well the drum states suitable for 229.52 which entails the Mercedes Benz LSPI test.

Their PDS states "Warranted by Castrol to be completely suitable for use in vehicles where the following specifications apply: MB 229.52"
Click to expand...
But that language is different from actually having the approval, isn’t it?
 
john_pifer said:
But that language is different from actually having the approval, isn’t it?
Click to expand...
Sure but its not that much different when M1 one states "Meets the performance requirements of SP".

Castrol also states they warranty their product as meeting the requirements of 229.52.

Also, don't forget that LSPI tolerance isn't entirely dependent on Ca levels. It's why for example M1 states "meets performance requirements of SP" on the FS line.
 
john_pifer said:
But that language is different from actually having the approval, isn’t it?
Click to expand...
Yes, but it actually has the MB 229.51 approval, which requires the same LSPI test.

BMWTurboDzl said:
Also, don't forget that LSPI tolerance isn't entirely dependent on Ca levels. It's why for example M1 states "meets performance requirements of SP" on the FS line.
Click to expand...
API SP doesn't set any calcium limits, so higher calcium wouldn't prevent M1 FS from getting approval so long as it could pass the LSPI test. I'm guessing it's just got too much phosphorus to meet the standard.
 
twX said:
Yes, but it actually has the MB 229.51 approval, which requires the same LSPI test.


API SP doesn't set any calcium limits, so higher calcium wouldn't prevent M1 FS from getting approval so long as it could pass the LSPI test. I'm guessing it's just got too much phosphorus to meet the standard.
Click to expand...
The newest M1 0W-40 does have API-SP.

Are you referring to the Castrol 0W-30 LL?
 
twX said:
Yes, but it actually has the MB 229.51 approval, which requires the same LSPI test.


API SP doesn't set any calcium limits, so higher calcium wouldn't prevent M1 FS from getting approval so long as it could pass the LSPI test. I'm guessing it's just got too much phosphorus to meet the standard.
Click to expand...
Well the limit is determined by the LSPI test. In any case all the SP addpacks have essentially the same Mg/Ca ratio with differences in phosphorus to account for euro vs non-euro specifications.

We don't really know whether 229.51 has a LSPI test. It was suggested that it would back in 2019 per Ashton handbook but I haven't seen any current documentation confirming such.
 
john_pifer said:
The newest M1 0W-40 does have API-SP.

Are you referring to the Castrol 0W-30 LL?
Click to expand...
The comment I replied to implied that the M1 didn't have the approval, but I see that it now does.

I also found a recent UOA showing it to have only 1260 ppm Ca. Now I really am wondering if they had to reduce the calcium to get the SP approval. The only high calcium oils I've seen that claim to meet API SP requirements are the ones that don't actually have the approval.
 
BMWTurboDzl said:
We don't really know whether 229.51 has a LSPI test. It was suggested that it would back in 2019 per Ashton handbook but I haven't seen any current documentation confirming such.
Click to expand...
Yes, it would be nice if we could get an update to the Afton handbook. The Lubrizol comparison tool shows LSPI requirements for all of the standards 229.5 and newer, starting in 2019, and I've seen articles suggesting the test is now required.

I suspect that the MB LSPI test isn't all that stringent compared the tests for API SP, or especially Dexos1 Gen3. It seems to allow for some pretty high calcium levels, even for oils without much moly or ZDDP. The Lubrizol tool suggests this as well.
 
From what I gather it would need to have <800 PPM Phosphorus to meet SP. Whether there is a calcium limit for SP it's been the trend to reduce calcium at the very least towards reducing LSPI.

EDIT: I just bing searched & this link seems to say the same from PQIA. That there is no limit for Calcium for SP but the trend is there to reduce it.
https://pqia.org/2021/03/11/above-and-below-average/#:~:text=Although there are currently no minimum or maximum,provides a sense for the levels typically seen.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

P
BMW Z3 Oil Selection (M54B25)
Replies
18
Views
437
MCompact
Strumpan_
Mobil1 ESP 5W-30 vs Shell Helix Ultra ECT 0W-30
2 3
Replies
53
Views
4K
Averroes
D
New Castrol Edge Professional 0W-20 Formula
Replies
5
Views
8K
apollo18
M
Castrol Edge 0W-40 SP VOA
Replies
17
Views
3K
Impatient
J
Aussie 0w40 Castrol API SN or Penrite API SP
2
Replies
20
Views
3K
kschachn
Back
Top