I agree that there are some cases where DYI servicing may be more difficult in some of today's newer models - but overall I see them as much easier to work on then older models. I just cringe at the thought of some of those old 80's vehicles with miles of vacuum lines and computer controlled carbs - THOSE were nightmares.
New Vehicles = byebye DIY maintenance?
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This isn't really anything 'new' - there have always been some vehicles that are very hard to work on, some that are easy - the 1970's Chevrolet Monza V-8: Engine had to actually be lifted to do a simple spark-plug change! Meanwhile, straight-6 engines of that decade could be serviced almsot while standing in the engine bay.
Likewise here.
My SRT8 is very easy to work on, actually surprisingly so. When I first read about the CanBus network, etc., I didn't expect the ease of maintenance nor the really cheap pricing for parts.
I cannot say much for a lot of new cars. Some of them I call Techno Bombs!
My SRT8 is very easy to work on, actually surprisingly so. When I first read about the CanBus network, etc., I didn't expect the ease of maintenance nor the really cheap pricing for parts.
I cannot say much for a lot of new cars. Some of them I call Techno Bombs!
So far our two have been easy to work on. Simple suspension layouts, large engine bays with small engines, and a lack of techno-wizardry in the cabin (aside from mandated safety/nanny systems) means they can be worked on fairly quickly.
What gets me is the number of simple maintenance items that "must be" OEM, or needing a workaround to make a suitable aftermarket replacement work, such as the impossible-to-find battery in the Fit.
What gets me is the number of simple maintenance items that "must be" OEM, or needing a workaround to make a suitable aftermarket replacement work, such as the impossible-to-find battery in the Fit.
Originally Posted By: addyguy
This isn't really anything 'new' - there have always been some vehicles that are very hard to work on, some that are easy - the 1970's Chevrolet Monza V-8: Engine had to actually be lifted to do a simple spark-plug change! Meanwhile, straight-6 engines of that decade could be serviced almsot while standing in the engine bay.
This isn't really anything 'new' - there have always been some vehicles that are very hard to work on, some that are easy - the 1970's Chevrolet Monza V-8: Engine had to actually be lifted to do a simple spark-plug change! Meanwhile, straight-6 engines of that decade could be serviced almsot while standing in the engine bay.
Originally Posted By: sciphi
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What gets me is the number of simple maintenance items that "must be" OEM, or needing a workaround to make a suitable aftermarket replacement work, such as the impossible-to-find battery in the Fit.
Originally the Fit model was never supposed to be offered in the US or Canada this changed when small cars began to get popular with the gas prices rocketing.
My guess is that the battery IS fairly easy to find in Japan and Europe the cars original intended market.
That being said the Fit is the Honda that is most like the great Honda cars of the recent past (80s-early 90s) The rest of the line up today is bloated, not very high quality and over filled with "stuff" most people don't really need.
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What gets me is the number of simple maintenance items that "must be" OEM, or needing a workaround to make a suitable aftermarket replacement work, such as the impossible-to-find battery in the Fit.
Originally the Fit model was never supposed to be offered in the US or Canada this changed when small cars began to get popular with the gas prices rocketing.
My guess is that the battery IS fairly easy to find in Japan and Europe the cars original intended market.
That being said the Fit is the Honda that is most like the great Honda cars of the recent past (80s-early 90s) The rest of the line up today is bloated, not very high quality and over filled with "stuff" most people don't really need.
Car makers have been messing with engine beauty covers for years but once they are off there is nothing really different.
The only one i know of that was a real PITA was the original Audi A2, the buggers used twist fasteners to hold the hood on and fastened it down on all sides, getting it off was a pain.
Washer fluid, oil fill and dipsticks were accessible behind the front of the hood flap called a "Serviceklappe" where the grill would normally be which tilted.
This was almost deal breaker with many customers, i cant see any car company doing it again soon.
The only one i know of that was a real PITA was the original Audi A2, the buggers used twist fasteners to hold the hood on and fastened it down on all sides, getting it off was a pain.
Washer fluid, oil fill and dipsticks were accessible behind the front of the hood flap called a "Serviceklappe" where the grill would normally be which tilted.
This was almost deal breaker with many customers, i cant see any car company doing it again soon.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Russell
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
I was absolutely amazed at how difficult the oil & tranny dipsticks were to get at
Be thankful your car at least has these dipsticks. Many new cars don't.
New BMWs do not have engine or trany dipsicks.
This is not new in some cases. MY 1995 525i does not have a trany dipstick but has an engine dipstick.
I dont mind not having a transmission dipstick, and fine operation with no fluid loss over hundreds of thousands of miles makes me think it is OK. The only benefit to having it there, vs a drain and fill plug, is to do a topsider suction out.
But the engine has more capability to consume. And needs more frequent changes, of which suction is nice.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
I was absolutely amazed at how difficult the oil & tranny dipsticks were to get at
Be thankful your car at least has these dipsticks. Many new cars don't.
New BMWs do not have engine or trany dipsicks.
This is not new in some cases. MY 1995 525i does not have a trany dipstick but has an engine dipstick.
I dont mind not having a transmission dipstick, and fine operation with no fluid loss over hundreds of thousands of miles makes me think it is OK. The only benefit to having it there, vs a drain and fill plug, is to do a topsider suction out.
But the engine has more capability to consume. And needs more frequent changes, of which suction is nice.
Try working on a new VW Beetle. It is the last VW I will ever buy due to difficulty, cost of parts, and tightness of components. And VW Audi is really proud of OEM parts. The tranny fluid is "sealed" and a VW mechanic told me not to change the fluid and filter as that sometime could cause difficult shifting. However, engine crankcase oil is easy to change.
Originally Posted By: toneydoc
Try working on a new VW Beetle. It is the last VW I will ever buy due to difficulty, cost of parts, and tightness of components.
As a technician this is one of very few cars I DON'T want to see in my bay. True respect for VW service techs who work on that horrendous car on daily basis.
Try working on a new VW Beetle. It is the last VW I will ever buy due to difficulty, cost of parts, and tightness of components.
As a technician this is one of very few cars I DON'T want to see in my bay. True respect for VW service techs who work on that horrendous car on daily basis.
Newer vehicles simply make the job more difficult for shade trees and mechanics who lack the proper tools. It is not necessarily more difficult, it just forces people to become more advanced in their repair/maintenance strategies. Hopefully this also scares away certain people who have no business working on cars to begin with...
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Newer vehicles simply make the job more difficult for shade trees and mechanics who lack the proper tools. It is not necessarily more difficult, it just forces people to become more advanced in their repair/maintenance strategies. Hopefully this also scares away certain people who have no business working on cars to begin with...
What a rude statement! You're asking for a higher barrier to entry to something that I and most forum members find a tolerable hobby or at least a likeable chore or source of employment.
More money spent on tools or legally acquired software means less money for shoes for one's kids or a roof over their heads. If those tools don't work on the next car one buys ten years later, they weren't the lifetime investment one would have hoped.
And who appointed you decider of who should and who should not work on their cars?
Newer vehicles simply make the job more difficult for shade trees and mechanics who lack the proper tools. It is not necessarily more difficult, it just forces people to become more advanced in their repair/maintenance strategies. Hopefully this also scares away certain people who have no business working on cars to begin with...
What a rude statement! You're asking for a higher barrier to entry to something that I and most forum members find a tolerable hobby or at least a likeable chore or source of employment.
More money spent on tools or legally acquired software means less money for shoes for one's kids or a roof over their heads. If those tools don't work on the next car one buys ten years later, they weren't the lifetime investment one would have hoped.
And who appointed you decider of who should and who should not work on their cars?
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Newer vehicles simply make the job more difficult for shade trees and mechanics who lack the proper tools. It is not necessarily more difficult, it just forces people to become more advanced in their repair/maintenance strategies. Hopefully this also scares away certain people who have no business working on cars to begin with...
What a rude statement! You're asking for a higher barrier to entry to something that I and most forum members find a tolerable hobby or at least a likeable chore or source of employment.
More money spent on tools or legally acquired software means less money for shoes for one's kids or a roof over their heads. If those tools don't work on the next car one buys ten years later, they weren't the lifetime investment one would have hoped.
And who appointed you decider of who should and who should not work on their cars?
Don't take it personal. If you know what you're doing, by all means, DO.
But how many people have done more harm then good when trying to maintain or repair their vehicle, that had no clue of what they're doing?
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Newer vehicles simply make the job more difficult for shade trees and mechanics who lack the proper tools. It is not necessarily more difficult, it just forces people to become more advanced in their repair/maintenance strategies. Hopefully this also scares away certain people who have no business working on cars to begin with...
What a rude statement! You're asking for a higher barrier to entry to something that I and most forum members find a tolerable hobby or at least a likeable chore or source of employment.
More money spent on tools or legally acquired software means less money for shoes for one's kids or a roof over their heads. If those tools don't work on the next car one buys ten years later, they weren't the lifetime investment one would have hoped.
And who appointed you decider of who should and who should not work on their cars?
Don't take it personal. If you know what you're doing, by all means, DO.
But how many people have done more harm then good when trying to maintain or repair their vehicle, that had no clue of what they're doing?
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Manual still definitely has its pros too.
Yeah, just in case a sensor goes bonkers. In addition, having a dipstick tube makes it possible to extract oil from the top.
I've bought Fumoto drain valves for the past 3 cars I've bought and saves a TON of time and saves the mess as well. Google it. You will be amazed how much cash and time you save from it.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Manual still definitely has its pros too.
Yeah, just in case a sensor goes bonkers. In addition, having a dipstick tube makes it possible to extract oil from the top.
I've bought Fumoto drain valves for the past 3 cars I've bought and saves a TON of time and saves the mess as well. Google it. You will be amazed how much cash and time you save from it.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Newer vehicles simply make the job more difficult for shade trees and mechanics who lack the proper tools. It is not necessarily more difficult, it just forces people to become more advanced in their repair/maintenance strategies. Hopefully this also scares away certain people who have no business working on cars to begin with...
What a rude statement! You're asking for a higher barrier to entry to something that I and most forum members find a tolerable hobby or at least a likeable chore or source of employment.
More money spent on tools or legally acquired software means less money for shoes for one's kids or a roof over their heads. If those tools don't work on the next car one buys ten years later, they weren't the lifetime investment one would have hoped.
And who appointed you decider of who should and who should not work on their cars?
I have to agree with you. Many people do their own maintenance to save money, we just happen to do it as a hobby. With more complex machines, home maintenance isn't as easy to do and more stuff has to be done at the dealer. Since the maintenance is becoming "dealer only", the dealers can charge whatever price they want to. Its harder to say "I'll go to another place who will do it cheaper" when there aren't any other places who can actually do it.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Newer vehicles simply make the job more difficult for shade trees and mechanics who lack the proper tools. It is not necessarily more difficult, it just forces people to become more advanced in their repair/maintenance strategies. Hopefully this also scares away certain people who have no business working on cars to begin with...
What a rude statement! You're asking for a higher barrier to entry to something that I and most forum members find a tolerable hobby or at least a likeable chore or source of employment.
More money spent on tools or legally acquired software means less money for shoes for one's kids or a roof over their heads. If those tools don't work on the next car one buys ten years later, they weren't the lifetime investment one would have hoped.
And who appointed you decider of who should and who should not work on their cars?
I have to agree with you. Many people do their own maintenance to save money, we just happen to do it as a hobby. With more complex machines, home maintenance isn't as easy to do and more stuff has to be done at the dealer. Since the maintenance is becoming "dealer only", the dealers can charge whatever price they want to. Its harder to say "I'll go to another place who will do it cheaper" when there aren't any other places who can actually do it.
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
But how many people have done more harm then good when trying to maintain or repair their vehicle, that had no clue of what they're doing?
Most I know are too timid. There's one guy who when his starter went kaput took his shoe off and started banging on the alternator. But he's an exception, and would get thwarted by a Model T just as easily.
But how many people have done more harm then good when trying to maintain or repair their vehicle, that had no clue of what they're doing?
Most I know are too timid. There's one guy who when his starter went kaput took his shoe off and started banging on the alternator. But he's an exception, and would get thwarted by a Model T just as easily.
Originally Posted By: 91344George
Originally Posted By: sciphi
.
What gets me is the number of simple maintenance items that "must be" OEM, or needing a workaround to make a suitable aftermarket replacement work, such as the impossible-to-find battery in the Fit.
Originally the Fit model was never supposed to be offered in the US or Canada this changed when small cars began to get popular with the gas prices rocketing.
My guess is that the battery IS fairly easy to find in Japan and Europe the cars original intended market.
That being said the Fit is the Honda that is most like the great Honda cars of the recent past (80s-early 90s) The rest of the line up today is bloated, not very high quality and over filled with "stuff" most people don't really need.
Mmmm. I say this often, but I'm going I'm going to say it again. Who are you to decide what people do/do not "need? We don't "need" disc brakes, we don't "need" fuel injection, we don't "need" airbags. But if someone tried to sell you a brand new car without any of those things, you'd probably call them bonkers.
We don't "need" anything, it's what people WANT. And most people WANT bells and whistles. It's not your place to decide what people should and should not have.
Anyway, I'm glad my cruze has easily accessible dipsticks, and everything is pretty easy to get to. The engine is tiny, so there is lots of room in the engine bay to get to things.
The same can't be said however, for the equinox. That transverse 3.0L V6 and 6 speed AWD tranny are crammed into that engine bay. I don't know, but i'm pretty sure you have to pull the engine to change the serpentine belt. I know that I won't be doing any real work on that car, there just isn't any room.
Originally Posted By: sciphi
.
What gets me is the number of simple maintenance items that "must be" OEM, or needing a workaround to make a suitable aftermarket replacement work, such as the impossible-to-find battery in the Fit.
Originally the Fit model was never supposed to be offered in the US or Canada this changed when small cars began to get popular with the gas prices rocketing.
My guess is that the battery IS fairly easy to find in Japan and Europe the cars original intended market.
That being said the Fit is the Honda that is most like the great Honda cars of the recent past (80s-early 90s) The rest of the line up today is bloated, not very high quality and over filled with "stuff" most people don't really need.
Mmmm. I say this often, but I'm going I'm going to say it again. Who are you to decide what people do/do not "need? We don't "need" disc brakes, we don't "need" fuel injection, we don't "need" airbags. But if someone tried to sell you a brand new car without any of those things, you'd probably call them bonkers.
We don't "need" anything, it's what people WANT. And most people WANT bells and whistles. It's not your place to decide what people should and should not have.
Anyway, I'm glad my cruze has easily accessible dipsticks, and everything is pretty easy to get to. The engine is tiny, so there is lots of room in the engine bay to get to things.
The same can't be said however, for the equinox. That transverse 3.0L V6 and 6 speed AWD tranny are crammed into that engine bay. I don't know, but i'm pretty sure you have to pull the engine to change the serpentine belt. I know that I won't be doing any real work on that car, there just isn't any room.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Newer vehicles simply make the job more difficult for shade trees and mechanics who lack the proper tools. It is not necessarily more difficult, it just forces people to become more advanced in their repair/maintenance strategies. Hopefully this also scares away certain people who have no business working on cars to begin with...
What a rude statement! You're asking for a higher barrier to entry to something that I and most forum members find a tolerable hobby or at least a likeable chore or source of employment.
More money spent on tools or legally acquired software means less money for shoes for one's kids or a roof over their heads. If those tools don't work on the next car one buys ten years later, they weren't the lifetime investment one would have hoped.
And who appointed you decider of who should and who should not work on their cars?
I am sorry if you felt that was rude, that was not my intention. However, I do strongly believe that people who have no idea what they are doing should not be working on their cars (or other people's), and if this strategy stops them, all the better. This was NOT directed at you because I know that you are a competent mechanic.
With some research, you can usually find a cost-effective way to work on most mainstream cars even with these new requirements for factory-level scan tools. It will take some effort, but it is usually very manageable. For instance, on my friend's FX35, he flushed the transmission himself but then paid the dealer a small amount of $$ to do a fluid level check. Altogether, he still spent much less than what the dealer would have charged for the entire job. So...getting a bit creative and being an informed consumer/DIYer will become more important with some newer cars.
Also, I did not design these cars-- obviously the mfg who designed these cars set those barriers. But as an informed consumer/DIYer you can still find cost-effective ways to work on these cars.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Newer vehicles simply make the job more difficult for shade trees and mechanics who lack the proper tools. It is not necessarily more difficult, it just forces people to become more advanced in their repair/maintenance strategies. Hopefully this also scares away certain people who have no business working on cars to begin with...
What a rude statement! You're asking for a higher barrier to entry to something that I and most forum members find a tolerable hobby or at least a likeable chore or source of employment.
More money spent on tools or legally acquired software means less money for shoes for one's kids or a roof over their heads. If those tools don't work on the next car one buys ten years later, they weren't the lifetime investment one would have hoped.
And who appointed you decider of who should and who should not work on their cars?
I am sorry if you felt that was rude, that was not my intention. However, I do strongly believe that people who have no idea what they are doing should not be working on their cars (or other people's), and if this strategy stops them, all the better. This was NOT directed at you because I know that you are a competent mechanic.
With some research, you can usually find a cost-effective way to work on most mainstream cars even with these new requirements for factory-level scan tools. It will take some effort, but it is usually very manageable. For instance, on my friend's FX35, he flushed the transmission himself but then paid the dealer a small amount of $$ to do a fluid level check. Altogether, he still spent much less than what the dealer would have charged for the entire job. So...getting a bit creative and being an informed consumer/DIYer will become more important with some newer cars.
Also, I did not design these cars-- obviously the mfg who designed these cars set those barriers. But as an informed consumer/DIYer you can still find cost-effective ways to work on these cars.
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