New Extended Drain Interval Mobil Oils

[scout]

quote:

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Originally posted by jbas:
"It's possible that a comparison of two oils, one with the "correct" HTHS and one with an HTHS that is below the manufacturers minimum will show that the oil with the lesser viscosity actually works better because it's superior in other ways Better base oils, better additive packages, etc. are all factors that will effect how well an oil works in a given situation."

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Off topic:
This is why it is necessary to isolate the variable of interest by saying, or testing, "with all else being equal." We have enough evidence elsewhere here that increasing HTHS decreases wear, up to a point of diminishing returns above 3.5 or so.
End.

 

[scout]

quote:

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Originally posted by scout:

quote:

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Originally posted by Motorbike:
Extended Performance Oils
5w-30 57.2 @40c 10.2 @100c
10w-30 62.6 10.1
10w-40 91.3 14.2
15w-50 136.5 18.7

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Where did you get these numbers?

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These numbers and others are on the MSDSs here:
http://www.host1.exxonmobil.com/psims/psims.aspx

 

[scout]

GeorgeCLS seems to have inside information.
I wish he would leak the HTHS numbers.

 

[buster]

The HT/HS should be the same.

I'm interested in seeing what 50% more SuperSyn PAO does for these oils. Any guesses? Lower volatility?


http://www.prod.exxonmobil.com/scitech/leaders/capabilities/mn_chemical_synthetic_super.html

quote:

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SuperSynTM

A proprietary patented technology of ExxonMobil, SuperSynTM is a high-viscosity PAO that is used in engine oils, automatic transmission fluids, gear oil greases, hydraulic oils and other specialized applications. It has a viscosity index 35-40 units higher and a pour point this is 10-20 degrees lower than conventional PAOs of the same viscosity grade.

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[kbohip]

There's no way I'd ever take my Jeep to 15k miles on any oil. This is after I got an analysis done from Blackstone at 3k miles on Mobil 1. They recommended changing it!?

I was disappointed in the oil to say the least. I think I'll just go back to dino since I have to change it at 3k miles anyway.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

quote:

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Originally posted by kbohip:
There's no way I'd ever take my Jeep to 15k miles on any oil. This is after I got an analysis done from Blackstone at 3k miles on Mobil 1. They recommended changing it!?

I was disappointed in the oil to say the least. I think I'll just go back to dino since I have to change it at 3k miles anyway.

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This is not a shot at Jeep or a defense of M1 but perhaps you have a mechanical issue? What on the UOA caused the recomendation for an oil change? Was it wear metals , contaminants, silicon, TBN? Just curious why your beating an oil down so quickly.

 

[1sttruck]

The warranty seemed like a safe one for Mobil as it seems to be confined to failures due to the oil over the oil change interval, which isn't much of a problem. The problem is what is the impact on engine life, which they don't seem to cover.

 

[kbohip]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bryanccfshr:

quote:

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Originally posted by kbohip:
There's no way I'd ever take my Jeep to 15k miles on any oil. This is after I got an analysis done from Blackstone at 3k miles on Mobil 1. They recommended changing it!?

I was disappointed in the oil to say the least. I think I'll just go back to dino since I have to change it at 3k miles anyway.

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This is not a shot at Jeep or a defense of M1 but perhaps you have a mechanical issue? What on the UOA caused the recomendation for an oil change? Was it wear metals , contaminants, silicon, TBN? Just curious why your beating an oil down so quickly.

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I have an '03 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 4.7l H.O. engine. When the report was done, the vehicle only had around 25k miles on it. They basically said in the report that the oil was consistent with oil that had 5,500 miles on it. The lead was reading abnormally high.

Here's what's interesting though. My Dad also has a Grand Cherokee with the H.O. engine in it, also with the same exact miles. He uses regular Pennzoil. At an OTA of only 2,500 miles I sent a sample of his oil in. Everything came back pretty much the same exept his lead read 8 instead of 6 like mine did. This would mean to me that the regular dino oil was letting the engine wear a little more than the synthetic.

Someone told me that the HO engines have a higher concentration of lead in the bearings compared to the regular 4.7's. I'm wondering if this is where the mixup is

. Blackstone did note that the oil still had lots of active additive left.

 

[TomJones76]

quote:

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Originally posted by kbohip:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bryanccfshr:

quote:

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Originally posted by kbohip:
There's no way I'd ever take my Jeep to 15k miles on any oil. This is after I got an analysis done from Blackstone at 3k miles on Mobil 1. They recommended changing it!?

I was disappointed in the oil to say the least. I think I'll just go back to dino since I have to change it at 3k miles anyway.

---

This is not a shot at Jeep or a defense of M1 but perhaps you have a mechanical issue? What on the UOA caused the recomendation for an oil change? Was it wear metals , contaminants, silicon, TBN? Just curious why your beating an oil down so quickly.

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SNIP

Here's what's interesting though. My Dad also has a Grand Cherokee with the H.O. engine in it, also with the same exact miles. He uses regular Pennzoil. At an OTA of only 2,500 miles I sent a sample of his oil in. Everything came back pretty much the same exept his lead read 8 instead of 6 like mine did. This would mean to me that the regular dino oil was letting the engine wear a little more than the synthetic.

SNIP

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I don't think you should worry about the difference between 6 and 8 PPM. A 2 PPM difference, particularly in single-digit wear numbers, is just not statistically significant.
Check out this link:
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/labtest.html
Notice that for copper, one lab one day says 9, another says 5, another says 11, another says 15.
I'd bet the margin of error and sampling bias at the most accurate lab on any metal is no less than 3-4 PPM.
You really want 3 or more UOAs to establish valid trending on a given oil or vehicle.

 

[buster]

quote:

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The company said it is doing a considerable amount of work to meet the fuel economy requirements while retaining the 15,000-mile guarantee. “Technically its doable,” said Olszewski, “We’re well under way and expect to get there.”

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In about a year, I think we will see GF-4 Synthetics that are capable of 15,000/25,000 per year. Wouldn't surprise me if they go back to Mobil 1. Both Lubrizol and XOM are working on this. Until then, many will be confused by Mobil 1 and Mobil 2.

Lubrizol has some good info here: http://www.lubrizol.com/ACT/

Click on Euro4 is comming. LZ talks about how technology is under way in making a fuel efficient, GF-4 low level P long drain oil.

[ March 11, 2005, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[John W. Colby]

quote:

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SNIP

I don't think you should worry about the difference between 6 and 8 PPM. A 2 PPM difference, particularly in single-digit wear numbers, is just not statistically significant.
Check out this link:
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/labtest.html
Notice that for copper, one lab one day says 9, another says 5, another says 11, another says 15.
I'd bet the margin of error and sampling bias at the most accurate lab on any metal is no less than 3-4 PPM.
You really want 3 or more UOAs to establish valid trending on a given oil or vehicle.

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I'd be interested in seeing the same oil run through the same lab a couple of times. How does a given lab do run to run?

 

[TooSlick]

Repeatability from the same lab on wear metal concentrations should be about +/- 10% if they are setup and calibrated correctly. Reproducability between any two labs should be approx +/- 20% on wear metal and additive concentrations. Hence the disparities we see on a regular basis.

Yes, you have to test a number of times to establish a trend on a particular engine or piece of equipment like a transmission, differential, etc.

Tooslick

 

[Bobio]

quote:

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Originally posted by 1sttruck:
The warranty seemed like a safe one for Mobil as it seems to be confined to failures due to the oil over the oil change interval, which isn't much of a problem. The problem is what is the impact on engine life, which they don't seem to cover.

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There is more than warranty claims at stake with the 5000, 7500, 15000 mile ad campaign. If the oils fail to live up to the claims their reputation will be on the line. That would probably cost them far more than any warranty claims would.

 

[buster]

Does anyone have any data on Synthetic Oil sales? I'm curious to know if Amsoil is cutting into Mobil 1's sales and that this is the reason for the new EP oils.

 

[SSDude]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
Does anyone have any data on Synthetic Oil sales? I'm curious to know if Amsoil is cutting into Mobil 1's sales and that this is the reason for the new EP oils.

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This is a very good question. Indeed, it does seem that Mobil has taken a direct aim at Amsoil. In additon, they seem to have taken a swipe at Schaeffer with their 7500 oil as well. I wonder how this stacks up against Schaeffer's 7000 blend.

 

[jthorner]

quote:

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if Amsoil is cutting into Mobil 1's sales

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I don't have any data, but I highly doubt that Mobil is feeling any heat from Amsoil in the marketing department. There are relatively few customers who are willing to buy through the Amsoil sales channel ... sort of like the idea of the Avon lady putting fear into Revlon

.

I do suspect that the push by other major marketers to get more of the lucrative synthetic DIY business must be eroding Mobil-1's market share. Castrol has been agressively marketing Syntec for a long time. Valvoline has gotten more serious with their Synpower line. Pennzoil is making a big push as well.

Mobil also appears to be trying to figure out how to leverage it's Mobil-1 brand into a bigger portion of the conventional and blended oil market.

Personally I think that the Mobil-1, Mobil-1 EP split will not last. A rational product lineup would be Mobil 5000, Mobil 7500 and Mobil-1 15000.

We have recently seen Mobil-1R go away. Sub-brands within the Mobil-1 brand are a dumb marketing idea.

John

 

[TooSlick]

Mobil and Amsoil have been in business together for over 25 years and Amsoil is one of EOM's largest purchasers of PAO basestocks - well over 1,000,000 gallon per year. Mobil reps are always very noticable at Amsoils annual dealer conventions - heck,you'll even find them buying drinks at the bar ...

That's why all this Mobil vs Amsoil stuff is so dumb. As Amsoil sales go up, Mobils sales of synthetic basestocks go up. Anything Amsoil does to promote extended drains will benefit EOM and certainly the opposite is very true. Less than 5% of the market is using synthetic engine oils in passenger cars, so there is tremendous room for growth without cannabilizing sales.

I honestly think its wonderful news that the largest oil company in the world has a 15,000 mile oil. It makes my job of educating the public about extended drains infinitely easier, and has caused many potential customers to take a second look at Amsoil products....

TS

 

[Shannow]

Ted, not a bad point

 

[TooSlick]

Shannow,

The fact that Mobil also has an extended drain synthetic is now a primary part of my sales pitch...

You can see the obvious affect it has had on certain "Old School", 3000 mile oil change holdouts on this forum....

Ted

 

[Shannow]

They used to advertise M1 down here as having "40,000km protection" (25k miles).

Even still if you are out of warranty, the techs will suggest 1 year oil changes.

and we don't have EP