New Amsoil OE
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Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Amsoil is blending to a price point, to compete with the off the shelf oils.
And all the other oils don't keep price in mind.
Any smart business does. But I don't think RL has a good, better, best, do they? Sometimes that mentality can hurt a company, especially if they market products to be the very best, then come out with a cheaper line. That's sometimes why a company will sell products under another name, so the high end product doesn't get confused with a cheaper product. They already had XL, which IMO was on par with PP, M1, and a few others. Now they made something below it. It might end up hurting the dealers if the commission is less than some of their more expensive products, and established customers switch to save a buck. Time will tell.
IMO Amsoil is looking for a bigger slice of the pie that's all.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Amsoil is blending to a price point, to compete with the off the shelf oils.
And all the other oils don't keep price in mind.
Any smart business does. But I don't think RL has a good, better, best, do they? Sometimes that mentality can hurt a company, especially if they market products to be the very best, then come out with a cheaper line. That's sometimes why a company will sell products under another name, so the high end product doesn't get confused with a cheaper product. They already had XL, which IMO was on par with PP, M1, and a few others. Now they made something below it. It might end up hurting the dealers if the commission is less than some of their more expensive products, and established customers switch to save a buck. Time will tell.
IMO Amsoil is looking for a bigger slice of the pie that's all.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Good points, which is why I'd be more comfortable using PP, PU, Edge, or even Mobil 1 for that matter. [I'm not of fan of Mobil 1, but would still be more comfortable with it at the moment.]
Those oils are already around the same price point, give or take, so they may not be any better. They do however, have a solid track record.
Even though I said before that OE had to be made from cheaper stuff than the XL, it doesn't necessarily mean bad stuff. You can make a very solid oil for $5.5/qt which is OE's retail cost. All the majors are $4-5/qt in the 5qt jugs at Walmart which is actually a little less than OE.
Time will tell. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out and how OE will perform.
Good points, which is why I'd be more comfortable using PP, PU, Edge, or even Mobil 1 for that matter. [I'm not of fan of Mobil 1, but would still be more comfortable with it at the moment.]
Those oils are already around the same price point, give or take, so they may not be any better. They do however, have a solid track record.
Even though I said before that OE had to be made from cheaper stuff than the XL, it doesn't necessarily mean bad stuff. You can make a very solid oil for $5.5/qt which is OE's retail cost. All the majors are $4-5/qt in the 5qt jugs at Walmart which is actually a little less than OE.
Time will tell. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out and how OE will perform.
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Can someone tell me just HOW much difference their is between different group III's??
Most Group IIIs being used in motor oils are the "conventional" type, hydrocracked from petroleum distillates and having a Viscosity Index (VI) in the 120s.
Group III+ base oils are usually made from slack wax and have less ringed molecules (aromatics and naphthenics), thus having a higher VI (140s).
In addition to a higher VI, Group III+ base oils will have somewhat better oxidative stability, volatility, and low temperature properties.
The degree of benefits from Group IIIs is pretty much a function of the VI, which is a good indicator of the aromatic/naphthenic content and degree of molecular branching. A minimal Group III with a VI of 120 is only VI point above a Group II+, but crosses that magical (and mythical) line between "mineral oil" and "synthetic". A Group III+ with a VI over 140 is a significant improvement and approaches PAO in high temperature stability. Intermediate VIs will have intermediate performance.
Group IIIs from different suppliers with VIs in the 120s are going to be very similar in performance, with additive differences playing a much greater role. Those with higher VIs will be incrementally better, but again the differences can be wiped out by differences in the additive package. A good formulator will be able to bring forth the performance benefits available with higher VI Group IIIs.
SK is the largest supplier of Group IIIs with a 50% global market share. Their Yubase 4 base oil has a VI of 123. They have now introduced higher VI Group IIIs with VIs in the 130s and 140s.
SK's Group III+ base oils are about 20% higher in price than their standard Group III, which amounts to about 20 cents per quart. That is enough of a price difference to cause an oil marketer to resist using GROUP III+ base oils unless they have specific market claim or specification targets that absolutely require a higher level of performance from the base oil. If a marketer openly states that their current product is based on a Group III, then I would expect that marketer to openly and actively promote the fact that they are switching to a Group III+ in order to differentiate the new product, just as they would promote the word "synthetic" when they move from Group IIs to Group IIIs. Of course some marketers may choose to not offer that level of detail, especially if they are more keen on differentiating their Group III line from their Group IV/V line.
For further reading, see:
Yubase
Tom NJ
Can someone tell me just HOW much difference their is between different group III's??
Most Group IIIs being used in motor oils are the "conventional" type, hydrocracked from petroleum distillates and having a Viscosity Index (VI) in the 120s.
Group III+ base oils are usually made from slack wax and have less ringed molecules (aromatics and naphthenics), thus having a higher VI (140s).
In addition to a higher VI, Group III+ base oils will have somewhat better oxidative stability, volatility, and low temperature properties.
The degree of benefits from Group IIIs is pretty much a function of the VI, which is a good indicator of the aromatic/naphthenic content and degree of molecular branching. A minimal Group III with a VI of 120 is only VI point above a Group II+, but crosses that magical (and mythical) line between "mineral oil" and "synthetic". A Group III+ with a VI over 140 is a significant improvement and approaches PAO in high temperature stability. Intermediate VIs will have intermediate performance.
Group IIIs from different suppliers with VIs in the 120s are going to be very similar in performance, with additive differences playing a much greater role. Those with higher VIs will be incrementally better, but again the differences can be wiped out by differences in the additive package. A good formulator will be able to bring forth the performance benefits available with higher VI Group IIIs.
SK is the largest supplier of Group IIIs with a 50% global market share. Their Yubase 4 base oil has a VI of 123. They have now introduced higher VI Group IIIs with VIs in the 130s and 140s.
SK's Group III+ base oils are about 20% higher in price than their standard Group III, which amounts to about 20 cents per quart. That is enough of a price difference to cause an oil marketer to resist using GROUP III+ base oils unless they have specific market claim or specification targets that absolutely require a higher level of performance from the base oil. If a marketer openly states that their current product is based on a Group III, then I would expect that marketer to openly and actively promote the fact that they are switching to a Group III+ in order to differentiate the new product, just as they would promote the word "synthetic" when they move from Group IIs to Group IIIs. Of course some marketers may choose to not offer that level of detail, especially if they are more keen on differentiating their Group III line from their Group IV/V line.
For further reading, see:
Yubase
Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: CompSyn
Actually, Amsoil OE is targeted at the Mobil 1 quick lube market as Exxon/Mobil has a very large share of it. In fact, Amsoil’s power point presentation has an image of an OE quart container with a compacted quart container of Mobil 1 in the background.
Can you say David meets Goliath…
Wasn't that the concept behind XL? I suppose that if at first you don't succeed, try try again at lower cost...
Actually, Amsoil OE is targeted at the Mobil 1 quick lube market as Exxon/Mobil has a very large share of it. In fact, Amsoil’s power point presentation has an image of an OE quart container with a compacted quart container of Mobil 1 in the background.
Can you say David meets Goliath…
Wasn't that the concept behind XL? I suppose that if at first you don't succeed, try try again at lower cost...
I know in about a week Amsoil will release the OE specs, but I found the MSDS sheet for the OE oils, with 'some' info:
Relative Density: 0.8488 to 0.854
Viscosity @ 100C: 8.7 to 10.8 cst.
Viscosity @ 40C: 50.7cst to 69.9 cst.
Pour point: -43 to -40°C (-45.4 to -40°F)
Relative Density: 0.8488 to 0.854
Viscosity @ 100C: 8.7 to 10.8 cst.
Viscosity @ 40C: 50.7cst to 69.9 cst.
Pour point: -43 to -40°C (-45.4 to -40°F)
Guess what guys, when the owner of Amsoil passes on or sells the company to his son's they will cheapen there oil's and ride the Amsoil name.
Amsoil has already bought an Oil Analysis lab so they can play with the numbers on how good there oil's are, which they really are not a top notch oil, whether it is there expensive line or there cheap line in my opinion I feel that users of there oil's could spend there money elsewhere and get better results and value for a cheaper price.
I have to say that Big Al is a smart man to a certain extent, but if Amsoil were really such a good oil, then why did they have to go and buy an Oil Analysis Lab that is right around the corner from there headquarters in Wisconsin, since they own a lab then how can we believe the numbers and if they send there oil's to outside labs then how do we know if the numbers are true, they can post anything they want in there sales literature.
Buyer beware when you buy Amsoil Motor Oil.
Amsoil has already bought an Oil Analysis lab so they can play with the numbers on how good there oil's are, which they really are not a top notch oil, whether it is there expensive line or there cheap line in my opinion I feel that users of there oil's could spend there money elsewhere and get better results and value for a cheaper price.
I have to say that Big Al is a smart man to a certain extent, but if Amsoil were really such a good oil, then why did they have to go and buy an Oil Analysis Lab that is right around the corner from there headquarters in Wisconsin, since they own a lab then how can we believe the numbers and if they send there oil's to outside labs then how do we know if the numbers are true, they can post anything they want in there sales literature.
Buyer beware when you buy Amsoil Motor Oil.
Originally Posted By: c3po
Guess what guys, when the owner of Amsoil passes on or sells the company to his son's they will cheapen there oil's and ride the Amsoil name.
Amsoil has already bought an Oil Analysis lab so they can play with the numbers on how good there oil's are, which they really are not a top notch oil, whether it is there expensive line or there cheap line in my opinion I feel that users of there oil's could spend there money elsewhere and get better results and value for a cheaper price.
I have to say that Big Al is a smart man to a certain extent, but if Amsoil were really such a good oil, then why did they have to go and buy an Oil Analysis Lab that is right around the corner from there headquarters in Wisconsin, since they own a lab then how can we believe the numbers and if they send there oil's to outside labs then how do we know if the numbers are true, they can post anything they want in there sales literature.
Buyer beware when you buy Amsoil Motor Oil.
I'm sorry, but you I didn't read your post because you used the word 'there' incorrectly four times and three times in one sentence.
Guess what guys, when the owner of Amsoil passes on or sells the company to his son's they will cheapen there oil's and ride the Amsoil name.
Amsoil has already bought an Oil Analysis lab so they can play with the numbers on how good there oil's are, which they really are not a top notch oil, whether it is there expensive line or there cheap line in my opinion I feel that users of there oil's could spend there money elsewhere and get better results and value for a cheaper price.
I have to say that Big Al is a smart man to a certain extent, but if Amsoil were really such a good oil, then why did they have to go and buy an Oil Analysis Lab that is right around the corner from there headquarters in Wisconsin, since they own a lab then how can we believe the numbers and if they send there oil's to outside labs then how do we know if the numbers are true, they can post anything they want in there sales literature.
Buyer beware when you buy Amsoil Motor Oil.
I'm sorry, but you I didn't read your post because you used the word 'there' incorrectly four times and three times in one sentence.
Originally Posted By: c3po
Guess what guys, when the owner of Amsoil passes on or sells the company to his son's they will cheapen there oil's and ride the Amsoil name.
Amsoil has already bought an Oil Analysis lab so they can play with the numbers on how good there oil's are, which they really are not a top notch oil, whether it is there expensive line or there cheap line in my opinion I feel that users of there oil's could spend there money elsewhere and get better results and value for a cheaper price.
I have to say that Big Al is a smart man to a certain extent, but if Amsoil were really such a good oil, then why did they have to go and buy an Oil Analysis Lab that is right around the corner from there headquarters in Wisconsin, since they own a lab then how can we believe the numbers and if they send there oil's to outside labs then how do we know if the numbers are true, they can post anything they want in there sales literature.
Buyer beware when you buy Amsoil Motor Oil.
I'm not an expert, but I really don't think that is a fair or reasonable statement to make about Amsoil.
Yeah, there's a possibility that could happen...but so could it to ANY company.
Look at the UOA's done by labs they DON'T own - they are still some of the best out there!
But I'll let the sponsors do a more in-dpeth defence, if they feel like it.......
Guess what guys, when the owner of Amsoil passes on or sells the company to his son's they will cheapen there oil's and ride the Amsoil name.
Amsoil has already bought an Oil Analysis lab so they can play with the numbers on how good there oil's are, which they really are not a top notch oil, whether it is there expensive line or there cheap line in my opinion I feel that users of there oil's could spend there money elsewhere and get better results and value for a cheaper price.
I have to say that Big Al is a smart man to a certain extent, but if Amsoil were really such a good oil, then why did they have to go and buy an Oil Analysis Lab that is right around the corner from there headquarters in Wisconsin, since they own a lab then how can we believe the numbers and if they send there oil's to outside labs then how do we know if the numbers are true, they can post anything they want in there sales literature.
Buyer beware when you buy Amsoil Motor Oil.
I'm not an expert, but I really don't think that is a fair or reasonable statement to make about Amsoil.
Yeah, there's a possibility that could happen...but so could it to ANY company.
Look at the UOA's done by labs they DON'T own - they are still some of the best out there!
But I'll let the sponsors do a more in-dpeth defence, if they feel like it.......
Originally Posted By: c3po
Guess what guys, when the owner of Amsoil passes on or sells the company to his son's they will cheapen there oil's and ride the Amsoil name.
Amsoil has already bought an Oil Analysis lab so they can play with the numbers on how good there oil's are, which they really are not a top notch oil, whether it is there expensive line or there cheap line in my opinion I feel that users of there oil's could spend there money elsewhere and get better results and value for a cheaper price.
I have to say that Big Al is a smart man to a certain extent, but if Amsoil were really such a good oil, then why did they have to go and buy an Oil Analysis Lab that is right around the corner from there headquarters in Wisconsin, since they own a lab then how can we believe the numbers and if they send there oil's to outside labs then how do we know if the numbers are true, they can post anything they want in there sales literature.
Buyer beware when you buy Amsoil Motor Oil.
At least, did you wear your aluminum hat while typing this?
Come on, lay down, and tell the doctor why you are so mad about this company?
Bashing (not even well made, BTW) without a minimum of fact: Shame on you!!
Guess what guys, when the owner of Amsoil passes on or sells the company to his son's they will cheapen there oil's and ride the Amsoil name.
Amsoil has already bought an Oil Analysis lab so they can play with the numbers on how good there oil's are, which they really are not a top notch oil, whether it is there expensive line or there cheap line in my opinion I feel that users of there oil's could spend there money elsewhere and get better results and value for a cheaper price.
I have to say that Big Al is a smart man to a certain extent, but if Amsoil were really such a good oil, then why did they have to go and buy an Oil Analysis Lab that is right around the corner from there headquarters in Wisconsin, since they own a lab then how can we believe the numbers and if they send there oil's to outside labs then how do we know if the numbers are true, they can post anything they want in there sales literature.
Buyer beware when you buy Amsoil Motor Oil.
At least, did you wear your aluminum hat while typing this?
Come on, lay down, and tell the doctor why you are so mad about this company?
Bashing (not even well made, BTW) without a minimum of fact: Shame on you!!
Originally Posted By: c3po
Guess what guys, when the owner of Amsoil passes on or sells the company to his son's they will cheapen there oil's and ride the Amsoil name.
Amsoil has already bought an Oil Analysis lab so they can play with the numbers on how good there oil's are, which they really are not a top notch oil, whether it is there expensive line or there cheap line in my opinion I feel that users of there oil's could spend there money elsewhere and get better results and value for a cheaper price.
I have to say that Big Al is a smart man to a certain extent, but if Amsoil were really such a good oil, then why did they have to go and buy an Oil Analysis Lab that is right around the corner from there headquarters in Wisconsin, since they own a lab then how can we believe the numbers and if they send there oil's to outside labs then how do we know if the numbers are true, they can post anything they want in there sales literature.
Buyer beware when you buy Amsoil Motor Oil.
People make all kinds of claims that can not be substantiated. They are a fabrication or at best a misrepresentation of the true facts.
Assuming Amsoil is lying or making up their test results is crazy. Companies that operate like that do not last for 38 yrs and become one of the most respected oils companies in the world by doing business like that. Matter of fact companies are knocking on AMSOIL’s door to become partners; companies such as Wix, Donaldson, Mann filters to name a few. Why would these companies want to do that if what you say it true?
Guess what guys, when the owner of Amsoil passes on or sells the company to his son's they will cheapen there oil's and ride the Amsoil name.
Amsoil has already bought an Oil Analysis lab so they can play with the numbers on how good there oil's are, which they really are not a top notch oil, whether it is there expensive line or there cheap line in my opinion I feel that users of there oil's could spend there money elsewhere and get better results and value for a cheaper price.
I have to say that Big Al is a smart man to a certain extent, but if Amsoil were really such a good oil, then why did they have to go and buy an Oil Analysis Lab that is right around the corner from there headquarters in Wisconsin, since they own a lab then how can we believe the numbers and if they send there oil's to outside labs then how do we know if the numbers are true, they can post anything they want in there sales literature.
Buyer beware when you buy Amsoil Motor Oil.
People make all kinds of claims that can not be substantiated. They are a fabrication or at best a misrepresentation of the true facts.
Assuming Amsoil is lying or making up their test results is crazy. Companies that operate like that do not last for 38 yrs and become one of the most respected oils companies in the world by doing business like that. Matter of fact companies are knocking on AMSOIL’s door to become partners; companies such as Wix, Donaldson, Mann filters to name a few. Why would these companies want to do that if what you say it true?
I do not use Amsoil but it is a fine oilthough. Amsoil cheapened their oil in the middle 1990s when they came out with the oil before the SSO.
Originally Posted By: Mike_dup1
Originally Posted By: c3po
Guess what guys, when the owner of Amsoil passes on or sells the company to his son's they will cheapen there oil's and ride the Amsoil name.
Amsoil has already bought an Oil Analysis lab so they can play with the numbers on how good there oil's are, which they really are not a top notch oil, whether it is there expensive line or there cheap line in my opinion I feel that users of there oil's could spend there money elsewhere and get better results and value for a cheaper price.
I have to say that Big Al is a smart man to a certain extent, but if Amsoil were really such a good oil, then why did they have to go and buy an Oil Analysis Lab that is right around the corner from there headquarters in Wisconsin, since they own a lab then how can we believe the numbers and if they send there oil's to outside labs then how do we know if the numbers are true, they can post anything they want in there sales literature.
Buyer beware when you buy Amsoil Motor Oil.
People make all kinds of claims that can not be substantiated. They are a fabrication or at best a misrepresentation of the true facts.
Assuming Amsoil is lying or making up their test results is crazy. Companies that operate like that do not last for 38 yrs and become one of the most respected oils companies in the world by doing business like that. Matter of fact companies are knocking on AMSOIL’s door to become partners; companies such as Wix, Donaldson, Mann filters to name a few. Why would these companies want to do that if what you say it true?
I would bet that the above mentioned companies could buy Amsoil and afford to close it down just on principle if that was their choice. You must believe everything you read in the Amsoil action.
Originally Posted By: c3po
Guess what guys, when the owner of Amsoil passes on or sells the company to his son's they will cheapen there oil's and ride the Amsoil name.
Amsoil has already bought an Oil Analysis lab so they can play with the numbers on how good there oil's are, which they really are not a top notch oil, whether it is there expensive line or there cheap line in my opinion I feel that users of there oil's could spend there money elsewhere and get better results and value for a cheaper price.
I have to say that Big Al is a smart man to a certain extent, but if Amsoil were really such a good oil, then why did they have to go and buy an Oil Analysis Lab that is right around the corner from there headquarters in Wisconsin, since they own a lab then how can we believe the numbers and if they send there oil's to outside labs then how do we know if the numbers are true, they can post anything they want in there sales literature.
Buyer beware when you buy Amsoil Motor Oil.
People make all kinds of claims that can not be substantiated. They are a fabrication or at best a misrepresentation of the true facts.
Assuming Amsoil is lying or making up their test results is crazy. Companies that operate like that do not last for 38 yrs and become one of the most respected oils companies in the world by doing business like that. Matter of fact companies are knocking on AMSOIL’s door to become partners; companies such as Wix, Donaldson, Mann filters to name a few. Why would these companies want to do that if what you say it true?
I would bet that the above mentioned companies could buy Amsoil and afford to close it down just on principle if that was their choice. You must believe everything you read in the Amsoil action.
Okay guys. Can we PLEASE keep it on the subject of Amsoil OE and how that oil is/should be.
We really don't need the bashing. Its not helping....
Thanks in advance, Bill
We really don't need the bashing. Its not helping....
Thanks in advance, Bill
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: Mike_dup1
Originally Posted By: c3po
Guess what guys, when the owner of Amsoil passes on or sells the company to his son's they will cheapen there oil's and ride the Amsoil name.
Amsoil has already bought an Oil Analysis lab so they can play with the numbers on how good there oil's are, which they really are not a top notch oil, whether it is there expensive line or there cheap line in my opinion I feel that users of there oil's could spend there money elsewhere and get better results and value for a cheaper price.
I have to say that Big Al is a smart man to a certain extent, but if Amsoil were really such a good oil, then why did they have to go and buy an Oil Analysis Lab that is right around the corner from there headquarters in Wisconsin, since they own a lab then how can we believe the numbers and if they send there oil's to outside labs then how do we know if the numbers are true, they can post anything they want in there sales literature.
Buyer beware when you buy Amsoil Motor Oil.
People make all kinds of claims that can not be substantiated. They are a fabrication or at best a misrepresentation of the true facts.
Assuming Amsoil is lying or making up their test results is crazy. Companies that operate like that do not last for 38 yrs and become one of the most respected oils companies in the world by doing business like that. Matter of fact companies are knocking on AMSOIL’s door to become partners; companies such as Wix, Donaldson, Mann filters to name a few. Why would these companies want to do that if what you say it true?
I would bet that the above mentioned companies could buy Amsoil and afford to close it down just on principle if that was their choice. You must believe everything you read in the Amsoil action.
+1. I think Amsoil is just another avenue to sell product for Wix, Donaldson, and Mann.
Originally Posted By: Mike_dup1
Originally Posted By: c3po
Guess what guys, when the owner of Amsoil passes on or sells the company to his son's they will cheapen there oil's and ride the Amsoil name.
Amsoil has already bought an Oil Analysis lab so they can play with the numbers on how good there oil's are, which they really are not a top notch oil, whether it is there expensive line or there cheap line in my opinion I feel that users of there oil's could spend there money elsewhere and get better results and value for a cheaper price.
I have to say that Big Al is a smart man to a certain extent, but if Amsoil were really such a good oil, then why did they have to go and buy an Oil Analysis Lab that is right around the corner from there headquarters in Wisconsin, since they own a lab then how can we believe the numbers and if they send there oil's to outside labs then how do we know if the numbers are true, they can post anything they want in there sales literature.
Buyer beware when you buy Amsoil Motor Oil.
People make all kinds of claims that can not be substantiated. They are a fabrication or at best a misrepresentation of the true facts.
Assuming Amsoil is lying or making up their test results is crazy. Companies that operate like that do not last for 38 yrs and become one of the most respected oils companies in the world by doing business like that. Matter of fact companies are knocking on AMSOIL’s door to become partners; companies such as Wix, Donaldson, Mann filters to name a few. Why would these companies want to do that if what you say it true?
I would bet that the above mentioned companies could buy Amsoil and afford to close it down just on principle if that was their choice. You must believe everything you read in the Amsoil action.
+1. I think Amsoil is just another avenue to sell product for Wix, Donaldson, and Mann.
As quoted
I think Amsoil is just another avenue to sell product for Wix, Donaldson, and Mann.
At a very very high mark up compared to what you can purchase these products for over the counter. Wild Prices for the spark plugs, wiper blades marketed through Amsoil.
I think Amsoil is just another avenue to sell product for Wix, Donaldson, and Mann.
At a very very high mark up compared to what you can purchase these products for over the counter. Wild Prices for the spark plugs, wiper blades marketed through Amsoil.
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