What the highest flow 'regular' oil filter
- Thread starter XTwarrior1985
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Yes, and a windage tray, so long as the rules allow it. Some classes are very strict to where nothing can be touched.
Differences in "flow" (meaning the pressure drop (dP) across a component) between different center tubes and base plates designs is small. The media design and the total media area is the main factor that causes the dP across an oil filter.
PD oil pump - the most misunderstood component in an engine oiling system, lol.
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So to start, there are so many replies and I'm on mobile so it'll be hard to get everyone included. I did want to thank you for taking the time to explain to me about the oils, the filter media, etc, and being patient enough to type this all out. I truly appreciate it and thank you for the information. I have much learning to do. I got the Amsoil because I have heard good things about the brand, and I've used it in my ATV's and motorcycles with no issues.
I went ahead and ordered the HPL Sae 30 synthetic engine cleaner. I actually have the Amsoil but haven't changed the oil yet as I was waiting to get the filter. Should I use a high mileage synthetic media filter for this season to catch the contaminants the HPL releases, and then go to the K&n HP-2009 next season? I have about 8 more events for the season, give or take an event. It's mostly Rallycross but sprinkling in some autocross.
I'll order the necessary BAS and filter next season for sure.
To address some others that posted:
1. I'm trying my best to learn how to properly maintain a motor that I'm pushing hard. Oil feels like one of the best areas to try and get right and then work on other areas.
2. The oil pickups on these Mustangs are considered highly reliable. I did ask the Mustang community about the need for a baffled pan, but the consensus was the depth of the pan means it is super unlikely I'll pull air. I still may get a baffled pan in the future as piece of mind.
The K&N HP-2009 will be fine with the HPL EC. Mobil 1 M1-209, Wix 51516, and Fram Endurance FE3600 would be good choices also with the EC. Change the filter after 4 events, top off the oil, and continue the rest of the season.
Amsoil is indeed a very good oil brand. You likely would have no issues on their OE oil. It's just with your use of the engine, you can take advantage of the benefits a good racing oil offers.
Do you have any pictures of it in action?
Amsoil is indeed a very good oil brand. You likely would have no issues on their OE oil. It's just with your use of the engine, you can take advantage of the benefits a good racing oil offers.
Do you have any pictures of it in action?
Are you allowed to run a 2 Quart Oil Accumulator? I am guessing you cannot run a Dry Sump Oil System on this Mustang?
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I wouldn't bother with KN, Wix, or even the Fram marketed as racing filters.
Synth media will always flow better than cellulose and blends.
My recommendation, if a stainless mesh filter is out of the budget, would be the Wix XP, Napa Platinum, or Purolator Boss synth media filters. Amsoil, RoyalPurple, Fram Endurance are other options, so I'd simply shop on price.
If you're running an engine at redline, you need to control oil temps and oil pickup. Scrapers/aeration control/baffles, increased oil sump capacity, oil coolers, and the VISCOSITY picked by the average and peak temperature logging... and not what is recommended by Faurd in the owners manual.
A walmart ST or fram PH filter will be fine with any 'cleaning product' that you use, without wasting money on overhyped name brands.
What does your oil pressure gauge and oil temp gauge say? Without data, you're pissing against the wind!
Why do you think you need a cleaner? Was it neglected? sludged up?
A shorter oil change interval, with a quality synthetic oil, is all you need to maintain your engine. Pick an oil that matches the track abuse, keep the level full, and log your oil temps/psi on the runs, and go from there.
Does it take the common 3600/FL400s filter size? Is there elbow room for the PH8a sized filters?
@Greasymechtech What's your racing experience?
The reason for the cleaner, racing oil, and better filter were all explained in my earlier posts. It's not about the engine being sludged. It's about cleaning out dry carbon deposits (which is different from sludge) around the rings that are inevitably there after 20 years of using API oil, no matter how often it was changed. This cleaning of the rings improves ring seal and thus improves power. Ester also increases oil film thickness on the cylinder walls. Since the oil is the "gasket" between the rings and the walls, the sealing is further improved, and since it's not a volatile basic shelf oil, it'll take the heat all day long.
He doesn't need a higher viscosity oil. All it will do is rob power. That engine is not producing enough bearing load to warrant a higher viscosity oil. A good 20 grade is all it needs. In fact, if it was mine, I'd probably be running a 0W-16. The higher load of friction reducing additives and shear and thermally stable base oils used in a quality racing oil will only benefit him.
Let the oil get hot. The HPL BAS oil reaches peak CoF at 280-300°F. It's right at home there. Let the oil do what the oil does best.
I agree with monitoring oil pressure and temperature. Data is always a good thing to have, even if just for detecting if something's wrong.
I don't know what the rules are for the classes he runs, but I know some SCCA classes do not allow crank scrapers and windage trays. A baffle is about all you can do and some don't even allow that. The engine must remain sealed, from top to bottom, opening up only to make repairs with OEM replacement parts. They have these rules in place to keep the cost down for those stock engine classes. I'm not aware of any premade crank scrapers for the 3.8L V6 anyway. He would likely have to have one custom made which means $$$$$$, and probably get DQ'd for it anyway if caught using it.
The reason for the cleaner, racing oil, and better filter were all explained in my earlier posts. It's not about the engine being sludged. It's about cleaning out dry carbon deposits (which is different from sludge) around the rings that are inevitably there after 20 years of using API oil, no matter how often it was changed. This cleaning of the rings improves ring seal and thus improves power. Ester also increases oil film thickness on the cylinder walls. Since the oil is the "gasket" between the rings and the walls, the sealing is further improved, and since it's not a volatile basic shelf oil, it'll take the heat all day long.
He doesn't need a higher viscosity oil. All it will do is rob power. That engine is not producing enough bearing load to warrant a higher viscosity oil. A good 20 grade is all it needs. In fact, if it was mine, I'd probably be running a 0W-16. The higher load of friction reducing additives and shear and thermally stable base oils used in a quality racing oil will only benefit him.
Let the oil get hot. The HPL BAS oil reaches peak CoF at 280-300°F. It's right at home there. Let the oil do what the oil does best.
I agree with monitoring oil pressure and temperature. Data is always a good thing to have, even if just for detecting if something's wrong.
I don't know what the rules are for the classes he runs, but I know some SCCA classes do not allow crank scrapers and windage trays. A baffle is about all you can do and some don't even allow that. The engine must remain sealed, from top to bottom, opening up only to make repairs with OEM replacement parts. They have these rules in place to keep the cost down for those stock engine classes. I'm not aware of any premade crank scrapers for the 3.8L V6 anyway. He would likely have to have one custom made which means $$$$$$, and probably get DQ'd for it anyway if caught using it.
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Without data, no one knows what he needs or doesn't need for oil grade
I don't need the marketing commercial for esters, hpl, or power robbing viscosity. Dry carbon ring deposits is turning into a new fear scare issue.
Its for the thread starter to provide appropriate info. I don't want to hear from anyone talking for him. Its useless babble.
I don't need the marketing commercial for esters, hpl, or power robbing viscosity. Dry carbon ring deposits is turning into a new fear scare issue.
Its for the thread starter to provide appropriate info. I don't want to hear from anyone talking for him. Its useless babble.
I'm speaking from my experience with those engines. I used to autocross a 3.8L Mustang. I've gone through a couple of 3.8s for others that also autocrossed with them. I'm quite familiar with those engines from the bearing clearances and crank end play to spring rates, ring gaps, and typical oil temp at full tilt. They're rather durable, which is why people like to run them. Each one I've seen inside of, with a good bit of miles, had some coking around the rings. That's nothing unique to those engines, most all engines do once they get up there in mileage. The mains are typically .0015-.0018" and rods .0014-.0018" on every one I've mic'd. People boost these engines, putting a lot more load than the OP is on them, and they don't skip a beat. They have thick rings with high tension, spend more time in boundary and mixed lubrication, and thus benefit from friction modifiers that work in those regimes. In autocross, the highest oil temp I remember seeing from one was ~240°F. Rallycross, a little higher. Nothing extreme.
Realistically though... this isn't about his engine. You have a tendency to bash anything that's not a common shelf oil, don't see anything special about boutique oils. If I had recommended Rotella T6 5W-40, you likely wouldn't be asking about data at all.
Realistically though... this isn't about his engine. You have a tendency to bash anything that's not a common shelf oil, don't see anything special about boutique oils. If I had recommended Rotella T6 5W-40, you likely wouldn't be asking about data at all.
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I don't have many pictures but I do have some videos on a gopro. Also thanks for the advice! I figure if I learn proper oil maintenance on this, it will carry over into future vehicles I will own and use for this stuff as well.
Not sure how this forum does pictures, but here goes:
Brian - I am running Prepared Rear Wheel Drive and I think an oil accumulator would be fine. I have looked into those and it is possibly in my plans. I like the idea that they will cover any possible pressure drop from air getting into the pickup. I also wouldn't mind a small oil cooler, but if quality oil will be stable at higher temps it may not be necessary.
Overall this car is a work in progress but a lot of fun. With the gearing, we are able to stay in 1st gear for most of the course but we are hitting and exceeding the red line on the tachometer and we have also had it get up above normal operating temp for a few minutes after 4 straight hard runs. Fans work, coolant looks fine, we just pushed it harder than the stock setup was designed in a short period of time. We let it come down to normal and it stayed there afterwards so the system is working. I'm going to change the coolant and dilute the system a bit more and out a 'watter wetter' type additive in to make up for anything the water would be missing as far as coolant system maintenance is concerned.
Also ensure the radiator is totally clean to get max air flow through it.
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I forgot to hit refresh on this before replying.
To try and answer some questions, right now I only have dummy gauge. Oil pressure, oil heat, and coolant temp gauge are a goal in the near future.
The car was abused before we bought it, however somehow the thing runs 'clean' with no smoke on start, no hesitation, and no complaints. The oil pulled from the motor was way too old. I ran crap conventional oil for a bit to pickup the bigger trash, changed the oil and filter to Super tech Synethic and Purolator One filter to do the first 3 events on as the next step in cleaning, and now I'm ready to swap it over to something better for what I hope to be long term usage before a rebuild. I know this was sludges because I had to pull the oil pan off to replace a leaking gasket. It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great either.
And some reading this will say I'm wasting money, but I'm fine with that. If I waste $100 a year in expensive oil and filters for piece of mind and the possibility of extending the motors life, I feel it was worth it. People wast more money than that in a few minutes at a casino, and at least in my case I put a stupid big smile on me and my brothers face
To try and answer some questions, right now I only have dummy gauge. Oil pressure, oil heat, and coolant temp gauge are a goal in the near future.
The car was abused before we bought it, however somehow the thing runs 'clean' with no smoke on start, no hesitation, and no complaints. The oil pulled from the motor was way too old. I ran crap conventional oil for a bit to pickup the bigger trash, changed the oil and filter to Super tech Synethic and Purolator One filter to do the first 3 events on as the next step in cleaning, and now I'm ready to swap it over to something better for what I hope to be long term usage before a rebuild. I know this was sludges because I had to pull the oil pan off to replace a leaking gasket. It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great either.
And some reading this will say I'm wasting money, but I'm fine with that. If I waste $100 a year in expensive oil and filters for piece of mind and the possibility of extending the motors life, I feel it was worth it. People wast more money than that in a few minutes at a casino, and at least in my case I put a stupid big smile on me and my brothers face
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Yea, it has some bent fins from a life of normal use, but overall the majority of the fins look fine. I don't see any buildup near the cap or when I look down in, so either the coolant was changed properly or it's a newer radiator, though it doesn't look that new.
They may look fine, but I've seen radiators that are pretty dirty inside the fins, and a gentle back flush with water can wash a lot of crud out of the fins.
As long as the coolant concentration is within the minimum specified by the manufacturer (often 30%) the water wetter won’t do much if anything.
Also below about 30% glycol the heat transfer curve starts flattening out.
For your racing, a 70/30 water/AF mix is what I would use. I wouldn't worry about the water wetter. It's main purpose is to prevent nucleate boiling, but the coolant already achieves this. Water wetter and similar supplements are only beneficial when running straight water like in a drag racing setup.
Like @ZeeOSix said, flush the radiator out good. It can clean out crud you may not be able to see, and does no harm at worst.
Like @ZeeOSix said, flush the radiator out good. It can clean out crud you may not be able to see, and does no harm at worst.
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Thanks all! I am doing the clean and flush on the cooling system now, and waiting for the filter and HPL cleaner to come in to do the oil.
I would first select an oil that doesn't have an API rating, those are the oils which will have ZDDP levels which are in excess of the levels it takes to get an AP certification....after that, I would select a Royal Purple or Mobil 1 filter that fit my application.
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