Mopar Insiders: Our First Look At The All-New Twin-Turbo 3.0-liter GME-T6 Inline-Six Engine!.

[BLND1]

Mercedes G classes are V8. For smaller stuff or sedans those I6 are good. We are talking about full size towing SUVs here. You have to start with a V8. Then discuss if it will be n/a or turbo. But do not take the V8 off the table for such a large application.

You mean like an F150 with a 3.5L or 2.7L v6? Does that underperform?

Very few owners will actually be towing…. Much fewer than even the 1/2 ton trucks everyone likes to crack on.

In any case, the turbo will likely have better towing performance with its low/mid torque.

 

[PimTac]

If the average cylinder liner runs around 3/32" wall thickness, your looking at a minimum of an extra 1-1/8" in block length. Hard to believe they couldn't save that somewhere else from the flywheel to the front of the radiator.

This is what is making me scratch my head. Whichever method they use the cylinder bore measurements will have to be the same in the end. If the bores measure three inches they will be three inches with either liners or spray arc. The space between the bores has to be
sufficient to keep the structural integrity of the block. So I’m not sure how they really save any meaningful length here.

I am using 3 inches as a example and not the actual bore measurement of this engine.

 

[billt460]

This is what is making me scratch my head. Whichever method they use the cylinder bore measurements will have to be the same in the end. If the bores measure three inches they will be three inches with either liners or spray arc. The space between the bores has to be
sufficient to keep the structural integrity of the block. So I’m not sure how they really save any meaningful length here.

I am using 3 inches as a example and not the actual bore measurement of this engine.

Yeah, I see what you mean. Perhaps it has to do with the thickness of the Aluminum in the block around the water jackets for heat dissipation, or some such. Who knows.

But regardless, I'm having a real hard time believing they went to spray on cylinder wall coatings, because it saves on overall engine length.

Remember, he said this was, "discussed on forums". And we all know how much B.S. flies around here. So I wouldn't take ANY of it as holy writ.

 

[OVERKILL]

This is what is making me scratch my head. Whichever method they use the cylinder bore measurements will have to be the same in the end. If the bores measure three inches they will be three inches with either liners or spray arc. The space between the bores has to be
sufficient to keep the structural integrity of the block. So I’m not sure how they really save any meaningful length here.

I am using 3 inches as a example and not the actual bore measurement of this engine.

The liners I'm familiar with typically have a ridge at the top of them for them to seat, and, as you note, there needs to be sufficient block material between the bores for the head gasket and integrity. You can see what that looks like in practice with this shot from a Ford Teskid block:

This is a linerless iron block (same family) in comparison:

In comparison, this is a BMW M62/S62, which uses alumasil bores:

And this is what you have to do to one to sleeve it:

You'll note the sleeves are siamesed.

So, yes, with an engine that is designed to have an advanced bore finish vs sleeves, you can seriously tighten up the bore spacing. The Modular was originally an iron block and was of course designed to be both, which is why the bore spacing is much wider, and you see the considerable space between the liners. The M62/S62 was always an alloy block with a special coating, and bore spacing is subsequently much tighter.

 

[Wrenchturner44]

FWIW: The early reports are less issues with the hurricane 2.0 vs pentastar 3.2/3.6
There are quite a few on the cherokee forum and I think 1 issue so far with a hurricane.
about a billion problems with the tigershark.. pentastar in the middle with some issues.

Tigershark is odd. its overbuilt has the oil actuated valves(multiair?) so you dont even need a throttle body except at idle
and they regularly drink oil so badly they run out and stall.. see it again and again people posting about stalling jeep being super dangerous.. and boom it has no oil in it.

I would try to avoid the new hurricane 3.0 first year.. but even first year I dont expect it to be worse than ford's 1.5L etc.

The Tigershark 2.0 has had good reliability as compared the Multiair 2.4.

 

[jhs914]

All in an engine that sounds like a wheezing heart attack waiting to happen.

Now of course I haven't heard this engine, but some straight sixes can make beautiful music if given the chance. Ever heard a straight piped Jaguar or Austin Healy straight six? Heck, I even rode a school bus as a kid that had a straight piped Chevrolet straight six that sounded awesome.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Yeah, I see what you mean. Perhaps it has to do with the thickness of the Aluminum in the block around the water jackets for heat dissipation, or some such. Who knows.

But regardless, I'm having a real hard time believing they went to spray on cylinder wall coatings, because it saves on overall engine length.

Remember, he said this was, "discussed on forums". And we all know how much B.S. flies around here. So I wouldn't take ANY of it as holy writ.

Take it or leave it--no worries. But to fit the engine into "all vehicles that currently have longitudinal engines" is a bold statement and the Wrangler versus the others would be the tight fit. I had a hard time believing it too, but it does make sense given that an OEM would not want to retool an entire platform to shoehorn an engine into it, especially if other ways are possible and/or if they were going in that direction.

Here are the OAL measurements for the current engines available in the Wrangler:

2.0L = 484mm
3.6L = 503mm
6.4L = 609mm

The new engine would be longer than 609mm (by quite a bit) and when I last looked under a 392 Wrangler, there was not a lot of space left. In addition, the ZF transmission is not compact by any means, so they have a limited amount of space in which to work and as one of the articles said "Every millimeter counts" so losing the water jackets and the liners contributes to the "every millimeter counts" and when combined with the other tweaks they likely did on accessory mounting and the like, they will be able to install this engine without changing the frame/firewall/fenders/OAL vehicle length which saves them millions.

 

[IndyIan]

Now of course I haven't heard this engine, but some straight sixes can make beautiful music if given the chance. Ever heard a straight piped Jaguar or Austin Healy straight six? Heck, I even rode a school bus as a kid that had a straight piped Chevrolet straight six that sounded awesome.

Hmm, I've never really like them to be honest. Some of the worst sounding race cars I've ever heard are very uncorked bmw straight 6's. Just a straight BLAAAAAT, too monotone and not enough revs to be exciting I guess. Also when I lived downtown, the city buses also had diesel straight 6's and most straight 6's at normal rpms remind me of those buses...
The super boosted 2jz's are pretty neat sounding but I doubt that's what this new engine is going to be like.

 

[billt460]

........ Some of the worst sounding race cars I've ever heard are very uncorked bmw straight 6's. Just a straight BLAAAAAT, too monotone and not enough revs to be exciting I guess......

Here is a 6 cylinder BMW. It sounds OK, but nothing to get excited over. Typical, Waa..... Waa..... Waa.....

The driving is more impressive than the car.

 

[PimTac]

The liners I'm familiar with typically have a ridge at the top of them for them to seat, and, as you note, there needs to be sufficient block material between the bores for the head gasket and integrity. You can see what that looks like in practice with this shot from a Ford Teskid block:
View attachment 94331

This is a linerless iron block (same family) in comparison:
View attachment 94332

In comparison, this is a BMW M62/S62, which uses alumasil bores:
View attachment 94333
View attachment 94335

And this is what you have to do to one to sleeve it:
View attachment 94336
View attachment 94337

You'll note the sleeves are siamesed.

So, yes, with an engine that is designed to have an advanced bore finish vs sleeves, you can seriously tighten up the bore spacing. The Modular was originally an iron block and was of course designed to be both, which is why the bore spacing is much wider, and you see the considerable space between the liners. The M62/S62 was always an alloy block with a special coating, and bore spacing is subsequently much tighter.

Thanks for showing those pictures. I had no idea how tight the bores could get. It seems that the advances in metallurgy have made this possible.

 

[IndyIan]

Here is a 6 cylinder BMW. It sounds OK, but nothing to get excited over. Typical, Waa..... Waa..... Waa.....

The driving is more impressive than the car.

Not bad! The ones that stood out as just annoying were some factory touring type cars blaating around Mosport in the late 90's. Probably had to be stock internals or something ,so no high revs and just silly loud.

 

[K.Aoi]

Mercedes G classes are V8. For smaller stuff or sedans those I6 are good. We are talking about full size towing SUVs here. You have to start with a V8. Then discuss if it will be n/a or turbo. But do not take the V8 off the table for such a large application.

Okay

 

[OVERKILL]

Hmm, I've never really like them to be honest. Some of the worst sounding race cars I've ever heard are very uncorked bmw straight 6's. Just a straight BLAAAAAT, too monotone and not enough revs to be exciting I guess. Also when I lived downtown, the city buses also had diesel straight 6's and most straight 6's at normal rpms remind me of those buses...
The super boosted 2jz's are pretty neat sounding but I doubt that's what this new engine is going to be like.

I think the current 3.0L i6 sounds pretty good:

 

[IndyIan]

I think the current 3.0L i6 sounds pretty good:

Not too much wrong with that for sure. BMW put some work into that exhaust sound and it shows.
In general, I think the perfectly even exhaust pulses of an inline even number cyl engine aren't as interesting as the V engines, and if its straight piped, an inline 6 or 4 isn't great sounding unless the rev get way up there IMO.
With the V engines there's more sound complexity that varies with rpm, and having two cylinder heads allows an H pipe or crossover. At autocross a few years ago a bunch of young guys brought old 328's and straight piped them and they sounded alot like the old city buses, until they got near redline.... Another guy had an old ratty x-piped 4.0 V6 mustang with no mufflers which sounded amazing in comparison.

 

[10WSmuckers]

Then buy the Trackhawk. But I doubt you'll find one at $75K. That won't be good enough.

A 3-row Grand Wagoneer Trackhawk is just a pipe dream but goodness that would be a riot to drive. The Grand Cherokee is too small and impractical.

 

[K.Aoi]

A 3-row Grand Wagoneer Trackhawk is just a pipe dream but goodness that would be a riot to drive. The Grand Cherokee is too small and impractical.

The *Grand Cherokee* is *too small*???? What do you drive, a Suburban or Expedition L?

 

[The Critic]

The *Grand Cherokee* is *too small*???? What do you drive, a Suburban or Expedition L?

To be fair, the current Grand Cherokee is pretty lacking in passenger space compared to the newer competitors.

 

[dareo]

A 3-row Grand Wagoneer Trackhawk is just a pipe dream but goodness that would be a riot to drive. The Grand Cherokee is too small and impractical.

Escalade V is going to be coming out supercharged. Not sure if they will do the extended version as well.

 

[2EHA]

The liners I'm familiar with typically have a ridge at the top of them for them to seat, and, as you note, there needs to be sufficient block material between the bores for the head gasket and integrity. You can see what that looks like in practice with this shot from a Ford Teskid block:
View attachment 94331

This is a linerless iron block (same family) in comparison:
View attachment 94332

In comparison, this is a BMW M62/S62, which uses alumasil bores:


So, yes, with an engine that is designed to have an advanced bore finish vs sleeves, you can seriously tighten up the bore spacing. The Modular was originally an iron block and was of course designed to be both, which is why the bore spacing is much wider, and you see the considerable space between the liners. The M62/S62 was always an alloy block with a special coating, and bore spacing is subsequently much tighter.

the s62 is thin because it was bored out twice from the original 4.0 design

 

[ZeeOSix]

In comparison, this is a BMW M62/S62, which uses alumasil bores:
View attachment 94333

That's not much realestate between the cylinder bores. Did they ever have head gasket blow-outs between the cylinders?