Molybdenum, Cam wear and Hemi tick
- Thread starter burla
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Originally Posted By: PimTac
A good spell check is invaluable when posting. There is a big difference between seam and seem. Call me a spelling curmudgeon if you want but misspelled words stick out like a sore thumb.
Yeah, but for different reasons to us lysdexic types
A good spell check is invaluable when posting. There is a big difference between seam and seem. Call me a spelling curmudgeon if you want but misspelled words stick out like a sore thumb.
Yeah, but for different reasons to us lysdexic types
This thread needed the lightening up. Thanks Broc.
In many cases saying something in jest or not seriously does not cross well on the interwebs. I have never had anyone explode with four straight posts either. But to the point, I apologize to burla if I hit a nerve.
In many cases saying something in jest or not seriously does not cross well on the interwebs. I have never had anyone explode with four straight posts either. But to the point, I apologize to burla if I hit a nerve.
Burla your rant was kind of funny. I will say that I did like and respect the part about you grabbing a wrench while others did school work. Reminded me of my friend Jeremy who did not care the most for regular school work but was a very good mechanic. Jeremy worked hard and eventually got his own diesel shop. I was very happy and proud of him for doing all that he has done. Goes to show that intelligence is not always measured by scholastic means. In fact... There are people who are physicians who are not all that intelligent either. I have seen that up close and first hand. Another thought is that there are many different types of intelligence as well.
Ohh and I believe that Redline is a very very, good oil. I just can't spend that much money on oil. My lady gives me enough grief as it is
Ohh and I believe that Redline is a very very, good oil. I just can't spend that much money on oil. My lady gives me enough grief as it is
I'm a bit late to this thread but I thought I'd throw in my two pennethworth...
I can't claim to know anything about the basic Hemi cam tick problem but that Redline seems to cure it, doesn't surprise me one jot. The first VOA I pulled up for Redline 0W40 (from 2015) flagged up a Moly metal content of 624 ppm (so about 0.6% Moly additive in oil) and a Phosphorus content of 1263 ppm (so roughly 1.5% ZDDP in oil). That's a very beefy anti-wear system by anyone's standards. As I understand things, all Redline oils are full synthetic so the aggregate base oil viscocity will also be relatively high and contribute to the anti-wear performance of this oil.
As a long-term critic of US oil quality, and the daft system which causes them to be the way they are, it's nice to see a US oil supplier that's offering something 'a bit different' and not just being a slave to the constraints of ILSAC & the API.
Regarding Moly, I personally wouldn't read too much into the Infineum presentation. Tri-Nuclear Moly (TNM) was primarily a mechanism by which Infineum could circumvent the Moly patents of people like Vanderbilt and Asahi Denko. Nothing in the presentation is untrue but see it more as an exercise in building up the case for TNM being 'novel', rather than as a demonstration of it having exceptional field performance. Oh, and I wouldn't personally link the performance of TNM to it's high sulphur content. I've seen sulphur-free Molys give brilliant cam wear protection (as I recall, this is was inadvertently demonstrated in Infineum's original TNM patent).
I'm not sure how much the Ester base oils used in Redline oils are contributing to solving the cam tick problem. I'm personally not a fan of Esters. It might be interesting to see if one of the Japanese OEM oils (eg from Idemitsu) cures cam tick. These oils have very high Moly contents (sometimes close to 1000 ppm) but a 'normal' level of ZDDP & are very likely ester-free.
I can't claim to know anything about the basic Hemi cam tick problem but that Redline seems to cure it, doesn't surprise me one jot. The first VOA I pulled up for Redline 0W40 (from 2015) flagged up a Moly metal content of 624 ppm (so about 0.6% Moly additive in oil) and a Phosphorus content of 1263 ppm (so roughly 1.5% ZDDP in oil). That's a very beefy anti-wear system by anyone's standards. As I understand things, all Redline oils are full synthetic so the aggregate base oil viscocity will also be relatively high and contribute to the anti-wear performance of this oil.
As a long-term critic of US oil quality, and the daft system which causes them to be the way they are, it's nice to see a US oil supplier that's offering something 'a bit different' and not just being a slave to the constraints of ILSAC & the API.
Regarding Moly, I personally wouldn't read too much into the Infineum presentation. Tri-Nuclear Moly (TNM) was primarily a mechanism by which Infineum could circumvent the Moly patents of people like Vanderbilt and Asahi Denko. Nothing in the presentation is untrue but see it more as an exercise in building up the case for TNM being 'novel', rather than as a demonstration of it having exceptional field performance. Oh, and I wouldn't personally link the performance of TNM to it's high sulphur content. I've seen sulphur-free Molys give brilliant cam wear protection (as I recall, this is was inadvertently demonstrated in Infineum's original TNM patent).
I'm not sure how much the Ester base oils used in Redline oils are contributing to solving the cam tick problem. I'm personally not a fan of Esters. It might be interesting to see if one of the Japanese OEM oils (eg from Idemitsu) cures cam tick. These oils have very high Moly contents (sometimes close to 1000 ppm) but a 'normal' level of ZDDP & are very likely ester-free.
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Originally Posted By: chevman4life
I have noticed if mine sits for a week or so I'll get a light tick when it starts but goes away and doesn't do it again. If I run Mos2 with the OCI it doesn't do it. I've used different filters and I will say it did it more with a Fram Ultra. Currently using a Wix Xp. Current OC is Amsoil XL 5w30. Did it once this summer with the Wix so I added Mos2 and it has set all week due to the flooding here, just started it and smooth as silk.
I used to use Amsoil SS but can't remember if it still did it with the additional Moly.
Like I said only does it after long periods of time without running. Anyone else noticed this?
My co-workers 2015 Ram Hemi, makes no ticks at all with PU 5W30 in it and a pint of Biotech Engine Protectant. It can sit up to about 2-3 weeks, with no start up noise. After that it will tick for a second or two and stop, and not tick again unless it sits for a very long time. That IMO is perfectly normal, some oil will run off and drain out of parts if an engine sits long enough, no matter what oil you use.
I have noticed if mine sits for a week or so I'll get a light tick when it starts but goes away and doesn't do it again. If I run Mos2 with the OCI it doesn't do it. I've used different filters and I will say it did it more with a Fram Ultra. Currently using a Wix Xp. Current OC is Amsoil XL 5w30. Did it once this summer with the Wix so I added Mos2 and it has set all week due to the flooding here, just started it and smooth as silk.
I used to use Amsoil SS but can't remember if it still did it with the additional Moly.
Like I said only does it after long periods of time without running. Anyone else noticed this?
My co-workers 2015 Ram Hemi, makes no ticks at all with PU 5W30 in it and a pint of Biotech Engine Protectant. It can sit up to about 2-3 weeks, with no start up noise. After that it will tick for a second or two and stop, and not tick again unless it sits for a very long time. That IMO is perfectly normal, some oil will run off and drain out of parts if an engine sits long enough, no matter what oil you use.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: chevman4life
I have noticed if mine sits for a week or so I'll get a light tick when it starts but goes away and doesn't do it again. If I run Mos2 with the OCI it doesn't do it. I've used different filters and I will say it did it more with a Fram Ultra. Currently using a Wix Xp. Current OC is Amsoil XL 5w30. Did it once this summer with the Wix so I added Mos2 and it has set all week due to the flooding here, just started it and smooth as silk.
I used to use Amsoil SS but can't remember if it still did it with the additional Moly.
Like I said only does it after long periods of time without running. Anyone else noticed this?
My co-workers 2015 Ram Hemi, makes no ticks at all with PU 5W30 in it and a pint of Biotech Engine Protectant. It can sit up to about 2-3 weeks, with no start up noise. After that it will tick for a second or two and stop, and not tick again unless it sits for a very long time. That IMO is perfectly normal, some oil will run off and drain out of parts if an engine sits long enough, no matter what oil you use.
Glad to hear someone else has had the same issue. I'll just keep doing what I'm doing. Would love to try RL oil but just can't pay it, Amsoil is high enough.
Originally Posted By: chevman4life
I have noticed if mine sits for a week or so I'll get a light tick when it starts but goes away and doesn't do it again. If I run Mos2 with the OCI it doesn't do it. I've used different filters and I will say it did it more with a Fram Ultra. Currently using a Wix Xp. Current OC is Amsoil XL 5w30. Did it once this summer with the Wix so I added Mos2 and it has set all week due to the flooding here, just started it and smooth as silk.
I used to use Amsoil SS but can't remember if it still did it with the additional Moly.
Like I said only does it after long periods of time without running. Anyone else noticed this?
My co-workers 2015 Ram Hemi, makes no ticks at all with PU 5W30 in it and a pint of Biotech Engine Protectant. It can sit up to about 2-3 weeks, with no start up noise. After that it will tick for a second or two and stop, and not tick again unless it sits for a very long time. That IMO is perfectly normal, some oil will run off and drain out of parts if an engine sits long enough, no matter what oil you use.
Glad to hear someone else has had the same issue. I'll just keep doing what I'm doing. Would love to try RL oil but just can't pay it, Amsoil is high enough.
Depends on how long you run it. 15,000 miles on RL vs 3 changes of Delo should be about the same $$ wise ...
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: chevman4life
I have noticed if mine sits for a week or so I'll get a light tick when it starts but goes away and doesn't do it again. If I run Mos2 with the OCI it doesn't do it. I've used different filters and I will say it did it more with a Fram Ultra. Currently using a Wix Xp. Current OC is Amsoil XL 5w30. Did it once this summer with the Wix so I added Mos2 and it has set all week due to the flooding here, just started it and smooth as silk.
I used to use Amsoil SS but can't remember if it still did it with the additional Moly.
Like I said only does it after long periods of time without running. Anyone else noticed this?
My co-workers 2015 Ram Hemi, makes no ticks at all with PU 5W30 in it and a pint of Biotech Engine Protectant. It can sit up to about 2-3 weeks, with no start up noise. After that it will tick for a second or two and stop, and not tick again unless it sits for a very long time. That IMO is perfectly normal, some oil will run off and drain out of parts if an engine sits long enough, no matter what oil you use.
What if there was on oil for whatever reason left something on the surface so that little tick didn't happen? Maybe it is a moly plate, maybe it is a ester plate (just made that up)
Let you co-worker of our results, maybe he will try redline for a run. Worst case you report back and say it didn't work, or the tick got worse. But our results are for real, the ticks disappear at a very high success rate. If you would have said that combo ended his tick, I would have said thanks for the contribution to the thread as a possible fix. But my truck sits a lot as it is a ranch truck, only used 5k miles a year, and it was knocking like a sewing machine, now completely gone even if it sits for a week. thanks for you reply
Originally Posted By: chevman4life
I have noticed if mine sits for a week or so I'll get a light tick when it starts but goes away and doesn't do it again. If I run Mos2 with the OCI it doesn't do it. I've used different filters and I will say it did it more with a Fram Ultra. Currently using a Wix Xp. Current OC is Amsoil XL 5w30. Did it once this summer with the Wix so I added Mos2 and it has set all week due to the flooding here, just started it and smooth as silk.
I used to use Amsoil SS but can't remember if it still did it with the additional Moly.
Like I said only does it after long periods of time without running. Anyone else noticed this?
My co-workers 2015 Ram Hemi, makes no ticks at all with PU 5W30 in it and a pint of Biotech Engine Protectant. It can sit up to about 2-3 weeks, with no start up noise. After that it will tick for a second or two and stop, and not tick again unless it sits for a very long time. That IMO is perfectly normal, some oil will run off and drain out of parts if an engine sits long enough, no matter what oil you use.
What if there was on oil for whatever reason left something on the surface so that little tick didn't happen? Maybe it is a moly plate, maybe it is a ester plate (just made that up)
Originally Posted By: chevman4life
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: chevman4life
I have noticed if mine sits for a week or so I'll get a light tick when it starts but goes away and doesn't do it again. If I run Mos2 with the OCI it doesn't do it. I've used different filters and I will say it did it more with a Fram Ultra. Currently using a Wix Xp. Current OC is Amsoil XL 5w30. Did it once this summer with the Wix so I added Mos2 and it has set all week due to the flooding here, just started it and smooth as silk.
I used to use Amsoil SS but can't remember if it still did it with the additional Moly.
Like I said only does it after long periods of time without running. Anyone else noticed this?
My co-workers 2015 Ram Hemi, makes no ticks at all with PU 5W30 in it and a pint of Biotech Engine Protectant. It can sit up to about 2-3 weeks, with no start up noise. After that it will tick for a second or two and stop, and not tick again unless it sits for a very long time. That IMO is perfectly normal, some oil will run off and drain out of parts if an engine sits long enough, no matter what oil you use.
Glad to hear someone else has had the same issue. I'll just keep doing what I'm doing. Would love to try RL oil but just can't pay it, Amsoil is high enough.
Amsoil SS? Isn't it like 12 bucks a qrt? I get redline off ebay for 9.95 a qrt shipped free from some like (arc racing (sp)). I've already bought 2 cases and I'm thinking of stocking up because it appears like redline's moly levels have been dropping ever since they sold. I wont be happy at all if they keep dropping, as this is the only oil that has had the high success rate.
My opinion, on paper Amsoil looks great, you can make the argument better then redline in many ways such as a longer oci. Many guys on our board still ride and die with Amsoil, if not for the results Amsoil would likely be my ride or die as well. But, we had guys test and test again redline versus amsoil SS in the same truck, he only had his tick quieted with the redline. I will see if he will post his experience here again. He would be what I consider an "Amsoil guy", and it still is his oil of choice. Just not for hemi tick. Maybe I would now call him an Amsoil and Redline guy, and we as oil guys should probably all be amsoil and redline guys. Companies that really put the good stuff in their oils and leave the gimmicks alone.
I'm just saying this from a perspective of a small application of people that might benefit from our results. If not for hemi tick, I'd be running whatever is on sale so long as it had moly, most likely m1 costco deal. This is not a redline infomercial, just an interesting result from a bunch of guys who have a long term commitment and a bunch of volunteers who try different oils to solve this issue with lubrication. Tick is never normal, I am an old man and I have had near twenty vehicles in my life and many have sat, only this hemi has ever ticked. We have established I can't spell, so other then spelling or telling me to heal up, all responses are welcome.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: chevman4life
I have noticed if mine sits for a week or so I'll get a light tick when it starts but goes away and doesn't do it again. If I run Mos2 with the OCI it doesn't do it. I've used different filters and I will say it did it more with a Fram Ultra. Currently using a Wix Xp. Current OC is Amsoil XL 5w30. Did it once this summer with the Wix so I added Mos2 and it has set all week due to the flooding here, just started it and smooth as silk.
I used to use Amsoil SS but can't remember if it still did it with the additional Moly.
Like I said only does it after long periods of time without running. Anyone else noticed this?
My co-workers 2015 Ram Hemi, makes no ticks at all with PU 5W30 in it and a pint of Biotech Engine Protectant. It can sit up to about 2-3 weeks, with no start up noise. After that it will tick for a second or two and stop, and not tick again unless it sits for a very long time. That IMO is perfectly normal, some oil will run off and drain out of parts if an engine sits long enough, no matter what oil you use.
Glad to hear someone else has had the same issue. I'll just keep doing what I'm doing. Would love to try RL oil but just can't pay it, Amsoil is high enough.
Amsoil SS? Isn't it like 12 bucks a qrt? I get redline off ebay for 9.95 a qrt shipped free from some like (arc racing (sp)). I've already bought 2 cases and I'm thinking of stocking up because it appears like redline's moly levels have been dropping ever since they sold. I wont be happy at all if they keep dropping, as this is the only oil that has had the high success rate.
My opinion, on paper Amsoil looks great, you can make the argument better then redline in many ways such as a longer oci. Many guys on our board still ride and die with Amsoil, if not for the results Amsoil would likely be my ride or die as well. But, we had guys test and test again redline versus amsoil SS in the same truck, he only had his tick quieted with the redline. I will see if he will post his experience here again. He would be what I consider an "Amsoil guy", and it still is his oil of choice. Just not for hemi tick. Maybe I would now call him an Amsoil and Redline guy, and we as oil guys should probably all be amsoil and redline guys. Companies that really put the good stuff in their oils and leave the gimmicks alone.
I'm just saying this from a perspective of a small application of people that might benefit from our results. If not for hemi tick, I'd be running whatever is on sale so long as it had moly, most likely m1 costco deal. This is not a redline infomercial, just an interesting result from a bunch of guys who have a long term commitment and a bunch of volunteers who try different oils to solve this issue with lubrication. Tick is never normal, I am an old man and I have had near twenty vehicles in my life and many have sat, only this hemi has ever ticked. We have established I can't spell, so other then spelling or telling me to heal up, all responses are welcome.
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Depends on how long you run it. 15,000 miles on RL vs 3 changes of Delo should be about the same $$ wise ...
Back in the day you could run redline for 15k, but I wouldn't do that anymore without a uoa or two to back it up. I don't know what has changed, maybe the ethanol in gas or engine designs, but some guys are getting .01 tbn after only 9k miles on an oci. Now, I have had two uoa's on my redline and my tbn reading was 6 after 5k miles, and 3tbn left after 10k miles in my personal Ram, so for me if I wanted to push it I could go 15k, but that would also put me in a 3 year interval as I only put 5k miles on the truck, so I feel safe at my 2 year oci even though I have 3tbn left. Cautionary tale, the uoa's I have seen be careful of the 15k mile interval. A interesting article on tbn. some difference between what labs recomend versus what we should be doing
Yes I see that is diesel, but still maybe we should rethink what tbn we are changing are oils at. Each person should make their own choice. For me somewhere between 2 and 3 that oil is coming out.
Depends on how long you run it. 15,000 miles on RL vs 3 changes of Delo should be about the same $$ wise ...
Back in the day you could run redline for 15k, but I wouldn't do that anymore without a uoa or two to back it up. I don't know what has changed, maybe the ethanol in gas or engine designs, but some guys are getting .01 tbn after only 9k miles on an oci. Now, I have had two uoa's on my redline and my tbn reading was 6 after 5k miles, and 3tbn left after 10k miles in my personal Ram, so for me if I wanted to push it I could go 15k, but that would also put me in a 3 year interval as I only put 5k miles on the truck, so I feel safe at my 2 year oci even though I have 3tbn left. Cautionary tale, the uoa's I have seen be careful of the 15k mile interval. A interesting article on tbn. some difference between what labs recomend versus what we should be doing
Yes I see that is diesel, but still maybe we should rethink what tbn we are changing are oils at. Each person should make their own choice. For me somewhere between 2 and 3 that oil is coming out.
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For me RL is higher since I am an Amsoil PC and pick it up at the D.C. But I do buy the XL which is cheaper than the SS. I may try it but like I said since I'm using Mos2 I've had no issues. All good info on this thread though.
It hasn't gotten results and has been tried by several members. The additive that has promise is their Molygen as it is the oil soluble moly as opposed to powdered moly in suspension. Can't get molygen anywhere except off ebay at a huge cost to ship.
I've been communicating with Burla on the ram forum about my Hemi tick and my results with Redline oil. Without his advice my Hemi would still be ticking away. My tick was a hot idle tick rather than a cold start tick although with some oils I had both.
Here's the list of all the oil changes my truck has had. I really wasn't good about keeping track while I was experimenting so some are from memory and a lot of the mileage is approximate until recently. Keep in mind I do most of my oil changes by time, not mileage because I have a company vehicle and only drive my truck 5-6000 miles/year.
*FF (PYB 5w20) MO-899(larger pre-2013) filter installed at factory - Smooth and quiet at all temps
*PYB 5w20 at 750 miles (first wear metal flush), MO-339 filter from Amazon - Smooth and quiet at all temps
*PYB 5w20 at 1500 miles (second wear metal flush), MO-339 filter from Amazon - Smooth and quiet at all temps
Things went south after this. I knew I was going with a synthetic and I had been a long time M1 user. But Pennzoil had the MS-6395 spec and M1 didn't so I figured PP was the synthetic oil I should use. I was by far an oil greenhorn at this point.
*PP 5w20 at 2500 miles (non GTL), MO-339 filter from the dealer - Smooth and quiet at all temps for about 200 miles then developed the hot idle tick
*PP 5w20 at 3100 miles (GTL), got another MO-339 filter from Amazon figuring the previous filter might be defective - Cold start rattle/tick, loud hot idle tick
-3200 miles, Took to the dealer, was quickly told this was normal Hemi noise.
-7100 miles, cold start and hot idle tick worse, took it back to the dealer and was asked to provide receipts to prove oil was changed. I watched 2 different techs listen to it along with the service manager. They showed me another truck they were working on that was at operating temp and it made the same noise but FAR less obvious. I was again told it was normal Hemi noise. I figured at least it was documented twice now.
*Used a free dealer oil change coupon (PYB 5w20) 7300 miles, Mo-339 filter was installed - Immediate quieting of cold start tick and hot idle tick was significantly reduced.
*PYB 5w20 at 8000 miles (to prove PYB was the FF and what the dealer used), Left the same filter - Just as quiet as the dealer change.
*Not 100% sure about this one, but I changed it again around 9000 miles with Amsoil OE 5w20, RP 10-48 - Quiet on startup, hot idle tick was worse. Brought it to a local mechanic and he said a lot of Hemi's sound like this and didn't hear anything alarming. Had a recall to do at the dealer so I had them check it out a third time. Again, I was told this was normal and that they wouldn't look at it again for this unless it was "significantly worse". 3 times documented now.
*PYB 5w20 at 10000 miles, RP 10-48 filter - Quiet on cold start, hot idle tick better but still there. Ran a UOA on this.
*Redline 5w20 at 12500 miles, RP 10-48 filter - After 500+ miles Quiet on startup, hot idle tick significantly reduced but still there. I was amazed at how smooth the engine ran after putting RL in.
*I don't remember the exact mileage here but I tried Amsoil SS 5w20/30 mix, Wix XP 57060. It ran about the same as Redline 5w20.
-Switched to Amsoil SS 5w30 after about 150 miles (yes I'm crazy). Thought I had found my oil only to discover after about 400 miles I had my cold start tick back. Hot idle was still pretty quiet though.
*Redline 5w20 at approx 17000 miles, RP 10-48 - Nice and quiet on cold start but hot idle tick was a little louder than Amsoil SS 5w30. Ran a UOA on this at 1532 miles into the run
*Redline 0w30 at 22800miles, Wix XP 57060 - Quiet cold starts and quiet hot idle tick. It was the quietest my Hemi has run overall since before PP 5w20. I was extremely happy with this and then I got into the Pennzoil UOA program. Ran a UOA and copper was elevated.
*PUP 4qts 5w30 & 3qts 0w40 at 26981 miles, Wix XP 57060 - Quiet on cold starts and quiet on hot idle until the last 2-300 miles however UOA showed good wear metals
*PUP 6qts 0w40 & 1qt 5w30 at 30289 miles, RP 20-820 - Quiet on cold starts and quiet on hot idle so far - 300 miles in my hot idle tick came back
*Redline 5w30 at 30599 miles, Same RP 20-820 - By far the quietest its been since I bought the truck. Will most likely be running this going forward - Current fill.
Pretty sure I got everything. Now did my Hemi just happen to start ticking after pouring in PP? Or was it the PP? Also keep in mind I'm pretty sure the first PP was the old non GTL PP. I know the second was GTL PP.
So I gave a bunch of different oils a shot at quieting my Hemi. The only one that has for any length of time is Redline.
Here's the list of all the oil changes my truck has had. I really wasn't good about keeping track while I was experimenting so some are from memory and a lot of the mileage is approximate until recently. Keep in mind I do most of my oil changes by time, not mileage because I have a company vehicle and only drive my truck 5-6000 miles/year.
*FF (PYB 5w20) MO-899(larger pre-2013) filter installed at factory - Smooth and quiet at all temps
*PYB 5w20 at 750 miles (first wear metal flush), MO-339 filter from Amazon - Smooth and quiet at all temps
*PYB 5w20 at 1500 miles (second wear metal flush), MO-339 filter from Amazon - Smooth and quiet at all temps
Things went south after this. I knew I was going with a synthetic and I had been a long time M1 user. But Pennzoil had the MS-6395 spec and M1 didn't so I figured PP was the synthetic oil I should use. I was by far an oil greenhorn at this point.
*PP 5w20 at 2500 miles (non GTL), MO-339 filter from the dealer - Smooth and quiet at all temps for about 200 miles then developed the hot idle tick
*PP 5w20 at 3100 miles (GTL), got another MO-339 filter from Amazon figuring the previous filter might be defective - Cold start rattle/tick, loud hot idle tick
-3200 miles, Took to the dealer, was quickly told this was normal Hemi noise.
-7100 miles, cold start and hot idle tick worse, took it back to the dealer and was asked to provide receipts to prove oil was changed. I watched 2 different techs listen to it along with the service manager. They showed me another truck they were working on that was at operating temp and it made the same noise but FAR less obvious. I was again told it was normal Hemi noise. I figured at least it was documented twice now.
*Used a free dealer oil change coupon (PYB 5w20) 7300 miles, Mo-339 filter was installed - Immediate quieting of cold start tick and hot idle tick was significantly reduced.
*PYB 5w20 at 8000 miles (to prove PYB was the FF and what the dealer used), Left the same filter - Just as quiet as the dealer change.
*Not 100% sure about this one, but I changed it again around 9000 miles with Amsoil OE 5w20, RP 10-48 - Quiet on startup, hot idle tick was worse. Brought it to a local mechanic and he said a lot of Hemi's sound like this and didn't hear anything alarming. Had a recall to do at the dealer so I had them check it out a third time. Again, I was told this was normal and that they wouldn't look at it again for this unless it was "significantly worse". 3 times documented now.
*PYB 5w20 at 10000 miles, RP 10-48 filter - Quiet on cold start, hot idle tick better but still there. Ran a UOA on this.
*Redline 5w20 at 12500 miles, RP 10-48 filter - After 500+ miles Quiet on startup, hot idle tick significantly reduced but still there. I was amazed at how smooth the engine ran after putting RL in.
*I don't remember the exact mileage here but I tried Amsoil SS 5w20/30 mix, Wix XP 57060. It ran about the same as Redline 5w20.
-Switched to Amsoil SS 5w30 after about 150 miles (yes I'm crazy). Thought I had found my oil only to discover after about 400 miles I had my cold start tick back. Hot idle was still pretty quiet though.
*Redline 5w20 at approx 17000 miles, RP 10-48 - Nice and quiet on cold start but hot idle tick was a little louder than Amsoil SS 5w30. Ran a UOA on this at 1532 miles into the run
*Redline 0w30 at 22800miles, Wix XP 57060 - Quiet cold starts and quiet hot idle tick. It was the quietest my Hemi has run overall since before PP 5w20. I was extremely happy with this and then I got into the Pennzoil UOA program. Ran a UOA and copper was elevated.
*PUP 4qts 5w30 & 3qts 0w40 at 26981 miles, Wix XP 57060 - Quiet on cold starts and quiet on hot idle until the last 2-300 miles however UOA showed good wear metals
*PUP 6qts 0w40 & 1qt 5w30 at 30289 miles, RP 20-820 - Quiet on cold starts and quiet on hot idle so far - 300 miles in my hot idle tick came back
*Redline 5w30 at 30599 miles, Same RP 20-820 - By far the quietest its been since I bought the truck. Will most likely be running this going forward - Current fill.
Pretty sure I got everything. Now did my Hemi just happen to start ticking after pouring in PP? Or was it the PP? Also keep in mind I'm pretty sure the first PP was the old non GTL PP. I know the second was GTL PP.
So I gave a bunch of different oils a shot at quieting my Hemi. The only one that has for any length of time is Redline.
I can sense looking at your oil change list that certain oils were building up a protective film then when you switch to a different oil the film gets removed. I notice this because the tick takes a while to reappear. When you switched to Redline, the tick took a bit of time to disappear. This was noted on your 12500 oil change.
Do we know the actual moly component in Redline? It's a high concentration so that leads me to believe it is not moly dtc.
Do we know the actual moly component in Redline? It's a high concentration so that leads me to believe it is not moly dtc.
Another question should be asked; is Fiat doing any research into this issue to try and resolve it? The manufacturer stating it is normal reminds me of another automaker that stated that a certain amount of oil consumption in a new engine is normal.
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Originally Posted By: CC1981
I've been communicating with Burla on the ram forum about my Hemi tick and my results with Redline oil. Without his advice my Hemi would still be ticking away. My tick was a hot idle tick rather than a cold start tick although with some oils I had both.
Here's the list of all the oil changes my truck has had. I really wasn't good about keeping track while I was experimenting so some are from memory and a lot of the mileage is approximate until recently. Keep in mind I do most of my oil changes by time, not mileage because I have a company vehicle and only drive my truck 5-6000 miles/year.
*FF (PYB 5w20) MO-899(larger pre-2013) filter installed at factory - Smooth and quiet at all temps
*PYB 5w20 at 750 miles (first wear metal flush), MO-339 filter from Amazon - Smooth and quiet at all temps
*PYB 5w20 at 1500 miles (second wear metal flush), MO-339 filter from Amazon - Smooth and quiet at all temps
Things went south after this. I knew I was going with a synthetic and I had been a long time M1 user. But Pennzoil had the MS-6395 spec and M1 didn't so I figured PP was the synthetic oil I should use. I was by far an oil greenhorn at this point.
*PP 5w20 at 2500 miles (non GTL), MO-339 filter from the dealer - Smooth and quiet at all temps for about 200 miles then developed the hot idle tick
*PP 5w20 at 3100 miles (GTL), got another MO-339 filter from Amazon figuring the previous filter might be defective - Cold start rattle/tick, loud hot idle tick
-3200 miles, Took to the dealer, was quickly told this was normal Hemi noise.
-7100 miles, cold start and hot idle tick worse, took it back to the dealer and was asked to provide receipts to prove oil was changed. I watched 2 different techs listen to it along with the service manager. They showed me another truck they were working on that was at operating temp and it made the same noise but FAR less obvious. I was again told it was normal Hemi noise. I figured at least it was documented twice now.
*Used a free dealer oil change coupon (PYB 5w20) 7300 miles, Mo-339 filter was installed - Immediate quieting of cold start tick and hot idle tick was significantly reduced.
*PYB 5w20 at 8000 miles (to prove PYB was the FF and what the dealer used), Left the same filter - Just as quiet as the dealer change.
*Not 100% sure about this one, but I changed it again around 9000 miles with Amsoil OE 5w20, RP 10-48 - Quiet on startup, hot idle tick was worse. Brought it to a local mechanic and he said a lot of Hemi's sound like this and didn't hear anything alarming. Had a recall to do at the dealer so I had them check it out a third time. Again, I was told this was normal and that they wouldn't look at it again for this unless it was "significantly worse". 3 times documented now.
*PYB 5w20 at 10000 miles, RP 10-48 filter - Quiet on cold start, hot idle tick better but still there. Ran a UOA on this.
*Redline 5w20 at 12500 miles, RP 10-48 filter - After 500+ miles Quiet on startup, hot idle tick significantly reduced but still there. I was amazed at how smooth the engine ran after putting RL in.
*I don't remember the exact mileage here but I tried Amsoil SS 5w20/30 mix, Wix XP 57060. It ran about the same as Redline 5w20.
-Switched to Amsoil SS 5w30 after about 150 miles (yes I'm crazy). Thought I had found my oil only to discover after about 400 miles I had my cold start tick back. Hot idle was still pretty quiet though.
*Redline 5w20 at approx 17000 miles, RP 10-48 - Nice and quiet on cold start but hot idle tick was a little louder than Amsoil SS 5w30. Ran a UOA on this at 1532 miles into the run
*Redline 0w30 at 22800miles, Wix XP 57060 - Quiet cold starts and quiet hot idle tick. It was the quietest my Hemi has run overall since before PP 5w20. I was extremely happy with this and then I got into the Pennzoil UOA program. Ran a UOA and copper was elevated.
*PUP 4qts 5w30 & 3qts 0w40 at 26981 miles, Wix XP 57060 - Quiet on cold starts and quiet on hot idle until the last 2-300 miles however UOA showed good wear metals
*PUP 6qts 0w40 & 1qt 5w30 at 30289 miles, RP 20-820 - Quiet on cold starts and quiet on hot idle so far - 300 miles in my hot idle tick came back
*Redline 5w30 at 30599 miles, Same RP 20-820 - By far the quietest its been since I bought the truck. Will most likely be running this going forward - Current fill.
Pretty sure I got everything. Now did my Hemi just happen to start ticking after pouring in PP? Or was it the PP? Also keep in mind I'm pretty sure the first PP was the old non GTL PP. I know the second was GTL PP.
So I gave a bunch of different oils a shot at quieting my Hemi. The only one that has for any length of time is Redline.
The main thing I see is that your last few changes were all going progressively heavier.
Keep in mind, Redline 5w-20 is more in-line with a regular 5w-30 HTHS-wise. Their 5w-30 is more in-line with a 0w-40.
So you went from their 5w-20, which was heavier than previous oils, to their 0w-30, which is heavier again, back to a thinner GF-5 5w-30, then a mix, then up to their 5w-30.
Also, keep in mind that Redline's 5w-30 has no VII's in it, so you are essentially running a straight 30 (with an HTHS of a Euro 0w-40) that happens to meet the Winter requirements of the 5w designation.
I've been communicating with Burla on the ram forum about my Hemi tick and my results with Redline oil. Without his advice my Hemi would still be ticking away. My tick was a hot idle tick rather than a cold start tick although with some oils I had both.
Here's the list of all the oil changes my truck has had. I really wasn't good about keeping track while I was experimenting so some are from memory and a lot of the mileage is approximate until recently. Keep in mind I do most of my oil changes by time, not mileage because I have a company vehicle and only drive my truck 5-6000 miles/year.
*FF (PYB 5w20) MO-899(larger pre-2013) filter installed at factory - Smooth and quiet at all temps
*PYB 5w20 at 750 miles (first wear metal flush), MO-339 filter from Amazon - Smooth and quiet at all temps
*PYB 5w20 at 1500 miles (second wear metal flush), MO-339 filter from Amazon - Smooth and quiet at all temps
Things went south after this. I knew I was going with a synthetic and I had been a long time M1 user. But Pennzoil had the MS-6395 spec and M1 didn't so I figured PP was the synthetic oil I should use. I was by far an oil greenhorn at this point.
*PP 5w20 at 2500 miles (non GTL), MO-339 filter from the dealer - Smooth and quiet at all temps for about 200 miles then developed the hot idle tick
*PP 5w20 at 3100 miles (GTL), got another MO-339 filter from Amazon figuring the previous filter might be defective - Cold start rattle/tick, loud hot idle tick
-3200 miles, Took to the dealer, was quickly told this was normal Hemi noise.
-7100 miles, cold start and hot idle tick worse, took it back to the dealer and was asked to provide receipts to prove oil was changed. I watched 2 different techs listen to it along with the service manager. They showed me another truck they were working on that was at operating temp and it made the same noise but FAR less obvious. I was again told it was normal Hemi noise. I figured at least it was documented twice now.
*Used a free dealer oil change coupon (PYB 5w20) 7300 miles, Mo-339 filter was installed - Immediate quieting of cold start tick and hot idle tick was significantly reduced.
*PYB 5w20 at 8000 miles (to prove PYB was the FF and what the dealer used), Left the same filter - Just as quiet as the dealer change.
*Not 100% sure about this one, but I changed it again around 9000 miles with Amsoil OE 5w20, RP 10-48 - Quiet on startup, hot idle tick was worse. Brought it to a local mechanic and he said a lot of Hemi's sound like this and didn't hear anything alarming. Had a recall to do at the dealer so I had them check it out a third time. Again, I was told this was normal and that they wouldn't look at it again for this unless it was "significantly worse". 3 times documented now.
*PYB 5w20 at 10000 miles, RP 10-48 filter - Quiet on cold start, hot idle tick better but still there. Ran a UOA on this.
*Redline 5w20 at 12500 miles, RP 10-48 filter - After 500+ miles Quiet on startup, hot idle tick significantly reduced but still there. I was amazed at how smooth the engine ran after putting RL in.
*I don't remember the exact mileage here but I tried Amsoil SS 5w20/30 mix, Wix XP 57060. It ran about the same as Redline 5w20.
-Switched to Amsoil SS 5w30 after about 150 miles (yes I'm crazy). Thought I had found my oil only to discover after about 400 miles I had my cold start tick back. Hot idle was still pretty quiet though.
*Redline 5w20 at approx 17000 miles, RP 10-48 - Nice and quiet on cold start but hot idle tick was a little louder than Amsoil SS 5w30. Ran a UOA on this at 1532 miles into the run
*Redline 0w30 at 22800miles, Wix XP 57060 - Quiet cold starts and quiet hot idle tick. It was the quietest my Hemi has run overall since before PP 5w20. I was extremely happy with this and then I got into the Pennzoil UOA program. Ran a UOA and copper was elevated.
*PUP 4qts 5w30 & 3qts 0w40 at 26981 miles, Wix XP 57060 - Quiet on cold starts and quiet on hot idle until the last 2-300 miles however UOA showed good wear metals
*PUP 6qts 0w40 & 1qt 5w30 at 30289 miles, RP 20-820 - Quiet on cold starts and quiet on hot idle so far - 300 miles in my hot idle tick came back
*Redline 5w30 at 30599 miles, Same RP 20-820 - By far the quietest its been since I bought the truck. Will most likely be running this going forward - Current fill.
Pretty sure I got everything. Now did my Hemi just happen to start ticking after pouring in PP? Or was it the PP? Also keep in mind I'm pretty sure the first PP was the old non GTL PP. I know the second was GTL PP.
So I gave a bunch of different oils a shot at quieting my Hemi. The only one that has for any length of time is Redline.
The main thing I see is that your last few changes were all going progressively heavier.
Keep in mind, Redline 5w-20 is more in-line with a regular 5w-30 HTHS-wise. Their 5w-30 is more in-line with a 0w-40.
So you went from their 5w-20, which was heavier than previous oils, to their 0w-30, which is heavier again, back to a thinner GF-5 5w-30, then a mix, then up to their 5w-30.
Also, keep in mind that Redline's 5w-30 has no VII's in it, so you are essentially running a straight 30 (with an HTHS of a Euro 0w-40) that happens to meet the Winter requirements of the 5w designation.
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