running HPL engine cleaner 30 in 2008 Ford F150 5.4 w/ cam phaser issues

[darnitdiy]

Hi all, new to the forum - good to be here.

I have a 2008 F150 5.4 with 200k miles on it. It mostly drives fine but has an issue at hot idle where the there is a lot of knock, very rough, and sometimes even stalls out with "low oil pressure" warning. Only at hot idle, on cold idle there's no issue. When the issue occurs giving it a little gas fixes it.
The frequency of the issue has gone from "once in a while" to happening on every hot idle situation.

I have absolutely no engine codes (although at one point a year ago I had a cam sensor code that went away on its own).


My question is first about oil. I run 5w20 and am due for an oil change. Also I did a lot of off road camping last winter, and have not changed the oil (I know I know. I didn't change it because I had just changed it before the trip).

If I run some of the HPL engine cleaner 30 in the system before I do the oil change (a 1-5 cleaner to oil ratio per se), would this be recommended? I am just worried about introducing so much sludge to the engine at once. Or is that just with more aggressive cleaner ratios?

Also, I have seen others who say this is a common issue on Ford 5.4s, say to run 5w30 instead, and a lot of people say this helped their issue. However I've also seen people very adamant against that, saying the 5w20 is important in these engines because the cam phaser passages require the thinner oil.

Appreciate your feedback - thank you

 

[demarpaint]

I'd run the HPL engine cleaner with 5W30 oil, especially with low oil pressure on hot idle. In all honesty I have a feeling you have some mechanical issues like bad bearings which cleaning the engine isn't going to help much. You could get lucky with the oil pressure issue with the 5w30, I'd give it a shot if you don't have plans on tearing into the engine. If you do run it I would consider replacing the oil filter at about 1,500-2,000 miles then top it up and dump the oil and filter at 4K miles. You could also try 0W40 with the HPL EC. Good luckj!!

 

[Brian123]

1) What 5W-20 oil have you been using?
2) At what mileage do you change the Oil?
3) Are you the Original Owner?

 

[darnitdiy]

1) What 5W-20 oil have you been using?
2) At what mileage do you change the Oil?
3) Are you the Original Owner?

1. Mobile 1 5w-20 full synthetic (can't remember if it's the high mileage version or not, I'd have to check)
2. Have been changing it every 5k approximately. However at this point I'm at around 6k and I haven't yet changed it
3. No actually have only had the truck since 180k (so I've put 20k on it since mid 2022). Given the miles it appears it was well taken care of. Minimal rust, had service maintenance records.

 

[JavierH19]

an issue at hot idle where the there is a lot of knock, very rough, and sometimes even stalls out with "low oil pressure" warning. Only at hot idle, on cold idle there's no issue. When the issue occurs giving it a little gas fixes it

These engines and really any other can experience the locking pin not engage in the cam phaser making it rattle/knock from there not being enough oil pressure to keep it engaged which happens when oil pressure is at its lowest like hot idle with a thin oil. Using a thicker oil should do the trick since it keeps the pressure up at any time. I'd suggest you go to a 40 immediately, I'm using 15w-40 and my trucks love it. Dead silent at hot idle in this heat and far less oil consumption. 20 grade when hot thins out when compared to cold and at idle the pump is spinning slower so moving less volume and creating less pressure. And I usually ran 30/40 in my old 5.4 which I no longer have, never ran the 5w-20 the cap said. Ford made the oil pumps weaker since they require less engine power to run meaning there is a smidge more efficiency and these engines were never really made for thin oil. Just giving my trucks the tiniest bit of gas will make the oil pressure go up.

 

[incognito_2u]

Welcome to the forum!
The HPL EC30 is a long term, full OCI additive added to the engine when you change the oil. It’s not a quick “flush” in the true sense of the word, it’s more of a “slow and steady wins the race” type of product. That being said……..
Like stated by others, I don’t believe any oil additive would solve your issue. Sounds more of a mechanical issue that can only be resolved with a true analysis and diagnosis of the vehicle.

 

[gfh77665]

I had good luck with slightly heavier oils in my old Ford. Ran 10w-30 exclusively and never had a cam phazer issue in my 5.4. I would not run 0-20 or 5-20.

 

[Brian123]

1. Mobile 1 5w-20 full synthetic (can't remember if it's the high mileage version or not, I'd have to check)
2. Have been changing it every 5k approximately. However at this point I'm at around 6k and I haven't yet changed it
3. No actually have only had the truck since 180k (so I've put 20k on it since mid 2022). Given the miles it appears it was well taken care of. Minimal rust, had service maintenance records.

1st things 1st, Welcome to The Forum, you bought a vehicle with 180K on it, so the issues you are having are really not your fault. What I am pointing out here is that we do not know what oil or what OCI's were done before you got this vehicle.

 

[darnitdiy]

Thanks for all the feedback. I guess I'm just trying to determine what my procedure should be before my oil change, or if I should just immediately change it now.

My thinking was:

1. put a quart of HPL cleaner in
2. drive a couple hundred miles more
3. do an oil change (with another quart of HPL)
4. do another oil change after 1k miles or so


Sounds like the heavier is the way to go – is going immediately to 5w or 10w 40 too big of a step? I feel like I should try the W30 first and see how it responds. As for 5w vs 10w, I'm in northeast but not very north - we never see anything below -5 F.


Seems like some of you have experience with this in the 5.4 Fords. What oil do you guys use?

I'm using Mobil 1 synthetic (not high mileage). Should I continue to use the same if I'm planning on a quick oil change - or is it ok to use a cheaper oil if I'm "flushing" the system

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Hi all, new to the forum - good to be here.

I have a 2008 F150 5.4 with 200k miles on it. It mostly drives fine but has an issue at hot idle where the there is a lot of knock, very rough, and sometimes even stalls out with "low oil pressure" warning. Only at hot idle, on cold idle there's no issue. When the issue occurs giving it a little gas fixes it.
The frequency of the issue has gone from "once in a while" to happening on every hot idle situation.

I have absolutely no engine codes (although at one point a year ago I had a cam sensor code that went away on its own).


My question is first about oil. I run 5w20 and am due for an oil change. Also I did a lot of off road camping last winter, and have not changed the oil (I know I know. I didn't change it because I had just changed it before the trip).

If I run some of the HPL engine cleaner 30 in the system before I do the oil change (a 1-5 cleaner to oil ratio per se), would this be recommended? I am just worried about introducing so much sludge to the engine at once. Or is that just with more aggressive cleaner ratios?

Also, I have seen others who say this is a common issue on Ford 5.4s, say to run 5w30 instead, and a lot of people say this helped their issue. However I've also seen people very adamant against that, saying the 5w20 is important in these engines because the cam phaser passages require the thinner oil.

Appreciate your feedback - thank you

It just dissolves sludge and varnish into the oil. The ratio is 1:5 and run it for 1200 miles. The engine cleaner is SAE 30 so run it with whatever grade you want.

 

[oil pan 4]

Sounds like it's time for thicker oil to get that hot idle pressure up.

 

[oil pan 4]

Thanks for all the feedback. I guess I'm just trying to determine what my procedure should be before my oil change, or if I should just immediately change it now.

My thinking was:

1. put a quart of HPL cleaner in
2. drive a couple hundred miles more
3. do an oil change (with another quart of HPL)
4. do another oil change after 1k miles or so


Sounds like the heavier is the way to go – is going immediately to 5w or 10w 40 too big of a step? I feel like I should try the W30 first and see how it responds. As for 5w vs 10w, I'm in northeast but not very north - we never see anything below -5 F.


Seems like some of you have experience with this in the 5.4 Fords. What oil do you guys use?

I'm using Mobil 1 synthetic (not high mileage). Should I continue to use the same if I'm planning on a quick oil change - or is it ok to use a cheaper oil if I'm "flushing" the system

Nope go to at least 40 weight oil.
Most off-the-shelf 20 and 30 weight oils are very close to the same viscosity.
Most, not all 20 weight oils test at 9.5 cSt or more and most 30 weights are around 10.5 cSt at 100c.
So if you have 5psi of oil pressure with 20 weight hot at idle then going to 30 weight won't even get you to 6psi.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I’d run M1 FS 0w40 for the remainder of your ownership of this vehicle. Substitute one quart of EC40 on each of the first three changes, but I agree with dnewton3, if there are mechanical issues this won’t fix it. Best of luck and welcome to the forum!

 

[Vorlauf]

What's your idle speed during open loop when the engine is cold vs closed loop after it warms up? You may just need to adjust your idle speed a notch higher once the engine comes up to temp. I personally would use a 40 grade oil on a vehicle of that age & miles as well. Mobil1 High Mileage 10w40 is a cheap, reliable option that may help smooth things out if your idle speed is not the issue.

 

[panthermike]

You can run the EC but as others have said, switch to a 40 weight and just hope you get some time from it. Unfortunately these motors can have issues especially around 200k.

My brother gave his '07 to his daughter. I saw the truck last week and at 204k, it is experiencing the same thing.

 

[Fordiesel69]

Keep in mind I am still a fan of Ford's to some degree, and while still being a fan, I would personally not own a 3 valve version of a 5.4L unless I had owned it since brand new (or bought a crate engine).

There is no way to predict where your issue(s) are. But for starters it will need an entire timing set including ford OEM phasers, new roller rockers, and a high volume oil pump replacement. The rod and main bearings are most likely ok if the engine is not sludged up, or operated too long that way.

Carwizard youtube channel has very negative things to say about this engine and does not do much work on them internally due to his beleifs they will have their oil galleries blocked up. Fordtechmakuloco does tons of them with success on the other hand.

In my opinion HPL flush is like giving a knee replacement patient a blood transfusion hoping the knee pain will be reduced.

You have a mechanical issue where the engine is "unable" to build proper oil pressure.

 

[darnitdiy]

Thanks yes I have seen quite a few of Fordtechmakuloco videos and I ordered the melling high volume oil pump – we'll see when I get around to doing it that's another story.

Today I did an oil change and new filter, with Penzoil Ultra platinum 5w30. I think I'll go to 0w40 next change but I want to see how it responds to the 5w30 first. The old oil was pretty dirty. I put in 6 quarts and am just waiting for the HPL to arrive to put in the last quart.

I agree there's likely mechanical issues at play, but it's still my everyday vehicle right now so I need to keep it running. If I'm going to replace the oil pump, at that point - what else would be "good to do" while I have it open?

 

[tcp71]

Leaking tensioners are often the problem. I ran edge 0w40 exclusively in my 2009 5.4 F150 after an initial trial of 0w20. After a long run of heavy towing i had the rough idle with the 0w20. Changed to 0w40 and it ran like a top ever more.

 

[tcp71]

Thanks yes I have seen quite a few of Fordtechmakuloco videos and I ordered the melling high volume oil pump – we'll see when I get around to doing it that's another story.

Today I did an oil change and new filter, with Penzoil Ultra platinum 5w30. I think I'll go to 0w40 next change but I want to see how it responds to the 5w30 first. The old oil was pretty dirty. I put in 6 quarts and am just waiting for the HPL to arrive to put in the last quart.

I agree there's likely mechanical issues at play, but it's still my everyday vehicle right now so I need to keep it running. If I'm going to replace the oil pump, at that point - what else would be "good to do" while I have it open?

Chain, phasers(oem, NOT Dorman!!), tensioners, guides, solenoids (or just screens), check the pickup tube for sludge or blockage.

 

[Fordiesel69]

You should not continue driving it if you want to keep it as a daily driver. If the tensioners are blown (which they most likely are) the entire engine is bleeding oil pressure internally. It will not last long this way.