Molybdenum, Cam wear and Hemi tick

[burla]

So I would like to share to those who might be helped by these facts. Using moly lessons cam wear, using high moly lessons cam wear even more and faster. Here is the science behind that statement page 11 PDF On another board we tested high moly Redline against other oils, and at about an 80% success rate hemi tick has been eliminated just by switching to Redline 5w30 and 5w20. I'm sure the chart is trinuclear moly, but there also is another graph showing different moly and lowering the coefficient of friction. So this is my suggestion, discount what about twenty guys have done with their hemi ticks. Start a new test here at bobs with anyone having a ticking condition, and by tick those who have it more sounds like a knock. The science is there, as the temps go up, the friction goes down, perfect for a ticking condition. And as it haves it, this is silencing ticking conditions with a success rate that is stunning. I just hope I can help anyone who bought a 50k dollar vehicle and has to live with this tick, as it turns out, it might be as simple as changing the oil. My main hope is to have other options as well. Unfortunately even using 0w40 PUP which has over 200ppm moly and may even be TN moly? didn't work as redline has. Read the science, if you want more info pm me, and maybe take a chance and report if it helped your tick. Now, it has taken most guys 500 miles for the ticks to go quiet, nd I am open to suggestions why that has been the fact. Both Ram forums have cams being wiped out on a weekly basis. The last 6 cam fails the users were using non moly oils. Most guys don't put a lot of thought into oil choice until there is a problem. Match that "coincidence" with the link on moly and cam wear above and decide for yourself. non moly oil creates 10 times the cam wear of over 200ppm moly, 5 times more cam wear then the average 50ppm moly. Take this to the next level guys and gals here at bob's. Test those hemi ticks, you have to change your oil anyway? All findings good or bad should be posted.

 

[burla]

This is the kind of thing happening over and over with hemi tick. One lob gets wiped out, thus turning into a 7 thousand dollar dealer fix. Hemi tick leads to wear here, downstream at the cam!! The other forum has been testing now nearly 5 years.

 

[ndfergy]

I believe moly et al FM/AW's are a necessary compensation in the valvetrain for a lack of base oil viscosity. Add a 10W conventional with better EHD lubrication to the list to try.

 

[burla]

I can agree with that. We have tested many viscosities 20 to 40 weights, but every winter rating was 0 to 5, so it wouldn't hurt to try a 10 wr with a 30 weight. But did you read the cam wear pdf in relation to moly levels versus base oil?

 

[Rolla07]

Are we looking at an additive in oil to fix a design/mfr flaw? If this issue is only on hemis than I think its poor design not oil choice, although it is possible that oil selection can prevent this problem. Id blame the mfr though.

 

[burla]

I totally agree bud, it is a weakness in hemi's and is a design flaw. But once a owner has the tick, he/she needs a path forward? Most dealers call this normal, and every hemi owner just about bursts when they hear that!

 

[DoubleWasp]

Study seems to indicate that it's moly you want when breaking in a cam and to keep it alive.

 

[jeepman3071]

Is there any particular year range that is impacted by this? My dad has a 2013 Grand Cherokee with the 5.7L V8. It is approaching 100k miles with no knocks, ticks, oil burning, etc. I run Pennzoil Platinum 5w30.

 

[ndfergy]

Originally Posted By: burla

I can agree with that. We have tested many viscosities 20 to 40 weights, but every winter rating was 0 to 5, so it wouldn't hurt to try a 10 wr with a 30 weight. But did you read the cam wear pdf in relation to moly levels versus base oil?

All that proves, in their findings at least, is that Tri-nuclear is the best. Better than a formulation without any FM/AW, notwithstanding ZDDP, is to be expected, especially if the base oil is < 5w. How does TN moly compare to other FM/AW additives?

 

[burla]

That is a piece of the puzzle, and part of that puzzle happens to include 6 cam fails in a row running non moly oils and 16 outta 20 guys ending their ticks with high moly oil. Really need testers as opposed to opinions, there is nothing to loose and everything to gain. Test additives or oils, whatever. it should be encouraging that most guys who try and solve this with lubrication actually get results, and as it haves it, the science backs it up.

 

[Panzerman]

The only tick I had was a manifold gasket leak which was under warranty. I have been mostly on a 10w30 diet though with a couple of 5w30 oil changes. I have never run the 5w20 that was on the oil cap or manual that it calls for. So maybe thicker oil rather than moly has something to do with it because the early Hemis when it was thicker oil the tick wasn't as big a issue as it was later with the 5w20 switch.

 

[ndfergy]

Not disagreeing with you and hope you all the best. As you stated, "My main hope is to have other options as well". I gave you one.

 

[Stevie]

Those cams aren't hardened properly. Should be a recall. In the 1980s Honda 750 v4 motors had some cams that weren't hardened properly and wore out like that. Honda issued recalled and fixed all of them.

 

[burla]

Yes one issue is ticks can be exhaust bolts, our rough number is about 50% of them, and yes they can sound identical. I would look there first as that if that is the nature of the tick fix it or not, wont wipe out your cam. If the cam wasn't hardened properly it would be multiple lobs, this is a problem with the lifters unique to hemi's. More and more guys are paying attention and taking pics of their cams. In most cases there is horrible pitting on one or two lobs from hemi tick. You don't have to look hard to see the problem, other forums have sticky's with 1000's of posts and examples. Again, everyone needs to change their oil, it should be encouraging and interesting the results that have been coming in.

 

[skyactiv]

Will a UOA indicate if there is a problem in this engine like high FE content?

 

[burla]

All hemis tend to have high iron and copper wear whether the tick or not.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Rolla07

Are we looking at an additive in oil to fix a design/mfr flaw? If this issue is only on hemis than I think its poor design not oil choice, although it is possible that oil selection can prevent this problem. Id blame the mfr though.

Bingo. We have a manufacturer flaw that, if we want it to disappear, at least symptomatically, we need a very expensive oil. Maybe Chrysler should talk to Shell and see if they can come up with something as laughable as the Nissan Ester Oil.

 

[tig1]

GM had "soft cams" some 30-35 years ago. Poor design as perhaps Chrysler engines have.

 

[53' Stude]

Originally Posted By: tig1

GM had "soft cams" some 30-35 years ago. Poor design as perhaps Chrysler engines have.

Chrysler now owned by FIAT; that's the MAJOR problem

 

[VNTS]

Are you sure the follower isnt the problem, the bearings in the roller sometimes fail, then the roller sticks, and ruins the lobe? Any causation relative to certain years,MDS vs non-MDS? so besides redline, what other hi moly oils are folks using, and if given enough time using Redline, will the cam still fail?