Quieting Hemi Tick with Redline Oil

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: deven

Originally Posted By: racin4ds

I'm betting half the problem is the 20W "water" for oil being suggested for these trucks. A 5.7 Hemi, especially if its worked should not be running that pathetic Honda Civc oil! I'd bet just about any 5W40 or 10W30 oil would quiet that motor down

You'd lose that bet as I have seen many a human being try that and didn't work.

And by a miracle RP always works?

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted By: racin4ds

Originally Posted By: deven

Originally Posted By: racin4ds

I'm betting half the problem is the 20W "water" for oil being suggested for these trucks. A 5.7 Hemi, especially if its worked should not be running that pathetic Honda Civc oil! I'd bet just about any 5W40 or 10W30 oil would quiet that motor down

You'd lose that bet as I have seen many a human being try that and didn't work.

Your opinion is futile... you think Royal Purple is good oil!

Speaking of opinions.......

 

[Brett776]

I’m fairy certain I read that the MDS lifters won’t function correctly with a heavier oil. I’m still on the power train warranty so I’ll keep 5w20 PUP for now. I’m guessing 5w30 wouldn’t be too thick. Most ticks are broken exhaust manifold bolts but some can be the lifter as several 2011 hemis have had lifters fail.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Brett776

I’m fairy certain I read that the MDS lifters won’t function correctly with a heavier oil. I’m still on the power train warranty so I’ll keep 5w20 PUP for now. I’m guessing 5w30 wouldn’t be too thick. Most ticks are broken exhaust manifold bolts but some can be the lifter as several 2011 hemis have had lifters fail.

I've got a secret for you: ALL oil gets thicker when the temperature goes down The 5.7L and 6.4L (which spec's 0w-40) share the same lifters too. No, the system is NOT that sensitive to viscosity. It is however, programmed to expect a certain amount of pressure at a given temperature and that can, if you run oil significantly heavier than called for, trigger a code for that.

 

[jongies3]

I don't even think a 40wt would hurt it. The 6.4 Hemi already specs a 0W-40. If out of warranty, I'd try some M1, Castrol, or Pennzoil 5w or 0w 40wt if I had one. Seems like a much cheaper alternative than jumping straight into something expensive like Redline, at least with those oils if it doesn't work out it's a lot more forgiving on the pocket book to swap them out! Every engine is different, they all seem to "like" and "dislike" various types of oil.

 

[deven]

Originally Posted By: racin4ds

Originally Posted By: deven

Originally Posted By: racin4ds

I'm betting half the problem is the 20W "water" for oil being suggested for these trucks. A 5.7 Hemi, especially if its worked should not be running that pathetic Honda Civc oil! I'd bet just about any 5W40 or 10W30 oil would quiet that motor down

You'd lose that bet as I have seen many a human being try that and didn't work.

Your opinion is futile... you think Royal Purple is good oil!

LOL....nicely played sir!

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi

I'd be curious to know how well M1 5W30 ESP (HTHS=3.58) would work, but that isn't really much less expensive than Redline. Maybe the Pennzoil Euro 5W30 L that some people can find at WM? That is supposed to be a high HTHS 5W30.

Our Walmart dropped that PP-E ... I grabbed the last two for $14/jug …

 

[pantygnome]

Originally Posted By: Hammehead

Is it the polyolester, not he moly, that quiets the Hemy tick down?

My (non-professional) theory is that the oil pressure at idle is too low for these engines once the oil is warmed up. Today, on a not-really-hot day (69 degrees) after 15 minutes of driving I was at 31 psi idle pressure. I know technically its fine, [censored] Chrysler says 5 psi at idle is OK, but I feel like the top end doesnt get enough lubrication at ~30 psi. Just getting the engine a hundred or two RPM off idle brings pressure up to 40. Why does this matter? Moly will plate the parts which I think will help everything stay quiet and as wear-free as possible, FOR A SHORT TIME. Extended idle times of low oil pressure will cause the moly plating to wear away, leading to the noise and presumably wear. Do that enough and you'll end up with a "permanent" ticking noise and who knows how much wear. Redline has a LOT of moly in it, so it could be working better just because there is so much that it "extends" how long you can run "low" oil pressure before it becomes an issue. I think the thicker oil helps because it stays thicker when hot (could be proven just by watching the idle oil pressure between different oils). Get a 5W-30 with some moly and you should be good to go. So, something like PP 5W-30, PUP 5W-30, etc should be OK too, not just Redline. The Pennzoil products have the chrysler "spec" but -30 isnt spec-ed for the 5.7L Hemi in a RAM 1500. My truck has 3500 miles on it, is pretty quiet at idle running the dealers free oil (which, if their invoice can be believed, is PYB 5W-20) but I only have about 1000 miles on the oil. After 2K miles on the factory fill the engine started to sound louder at idle, but it was also during the winter as well.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: pantygnome

Originally Posted By: Hammehead

Is it the polyolester, not he moly, that quiets the Hemy tick down?

My (non-professional) theory is that the oil pressure at idle is too low for these engines once the oil is warmed up. Today, on a not-really-hot day (69 degrees) after 15 minutes of driving I was at 31 psi idle pressure. I know technically its fine, [censored] Chrysler says 5 psi at idle is OK, but I feel like the top end doesnt get enough lubrication at ~30 psi. Just getting the engine a hundred or two RPM off idle brings pressure up to 40. Why does this matter? Moly will plate the parts which I think will help everything stay quiet and as wear-free as possible, FOR A SHORT TIME. Extended idle times of low oil pressure will cause the moly plating to wear away, leading to the noise and presumably wear. Do that enough and you'll end up with a "permanent" ticking noise and who knows how much wear. Redline has a LOT of moly in it, so it could be working better just because there is so much that it "extends" how long you can run "low" oil pressure before it becomes an issue. I think the thicker oil helps because it stays thicker when hot (could be proven just by watching the idle oil pressure between different oils). Get a 5W-30 with some moly and you should be good to go. So, something like PP 5W-30, PUP 5W-30, etc should be OK too, not just Redline. The Pennzoil products have the chrysler "spec" but -30 isnt spec-ed for the 5.7L Hemi in a RAM 1500. My truck has 3500 miles on it, is pretty quiet at idle running the dealers free oil (which, if their invoice can be believed, is PYB 5W-20) but I only have about 1000 miles on the oil. After 2K miles on the factory fill the engine started to sound louder at idle, but it was also during the winter as well.

What do you think is being pressure lubed that could tick that is getting plated? Pressure (resistance to flow) relative to things like bearings, is indicative of the "head" of pressure necessary to replenish their flow-through and side leakage. It also matters in engines that have oil squirters. There are many engines (think OPE) that are simply splash lubricated. In a positive displacement oil pump, roughly the same volume of oil is being moved for each rotation of the gear or gears regardless of the viscosity as long as you are off the pressure relief. That means if you see 40psi with Redline and 30psi with PYB 5w-20, the engine is seeing the same volume of oil through the system if the relief pressure is 80psi on the pump. I don't think this issue is oil pressure related, assuming we are talking about the same issue, which is eventual lifter failure. What I have heard, from my buddies at the dealership is that the 6.4L, which takes the same lifters, doesn't seem to experience the issue. It spec's 0w-40. The moly levels in the various 0w-40's is all over the map, ergo, it's unlikely this is a significant contributor. The previous SRT-spec lube, M1 0w-40, did however have higher levels of AW additives (ZDDP). But the obvious difference here seems to be viscosity. The needle bearings in the rollers on the lifters APPEAR to be the failure point. The roller starts to fail, this makes noise, eventually it locks up and wipes out the cam lobe. It is also possible that the tick and the lifter failure are not related and the tick is simply lifter bleed-down, which is mitigated by a heavier lubricant. Since all of the Redline products are generally heavy for their grade, this is somewhat consistent with the results of their use.

 

[burla]

Nice Video's, I'll take door number 1. If you have lifter tick, seams like a no brainer but to give it a shot. I had 5w20 Redline end my tick, and it stayed gone with the use of 5w30 redline. All filter choice is the same, I am using the large RP filters with whatever oil I use. Go figure this one, I went to 10w30 redline due to it's lack of vii's, and in my Hemi it was not as good as keeping the tick gone. It isn't ticking, but there is a little lifter noise that wasn't there for 5 years with the other redline choices. Most people would say it is still butter smooth with the 10w30, but I can tell the difference. For what it is worth, I will be staying with 5w30. I'm sure there is a scientific reason, i will leave that to you guys, but no doubt that my hemi had the same results as the OP, and many guys on the other board as well. Thanks for going to the trouble to post video's over here as well. Seams like many Hemi's hit the lubrication lotto in that they are really sensitive to some oil formulas.

 

[burla]

It seams like it was hard for the OP to get his truck quiet again, hopefully he will update at some point.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

One bottle of Rislone did the trick for me. Needed two treatments (two 3K OCIs) using Rotella 10w30.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted By: burla

It seams like it was hard for the OP to get his truck quiet again, hopefully he will update at some point.

How do you know this? Seems.

 

[burla]

His run prior to running Amsoil was the smooth running video that redline had smoothed the tick out. The Amsoil SS 5w30 knocked very loudly. He posted a video at 350 miles on a new redline run, and it is vastly smoother, but the truck is still ticking. Bottom line, if you find an oil that keeps that lifter tick away, you might want to stick to it.

 

[Garak]

Or, if I had a vehicle that called for ordinary API oil yet needed $15 per litre oil to sound passable, I might consider a different vehicle. Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted By: Garak

Or, if I had a vehicle that called for ordinary API oil yet needed $15 per litre oil to sound passable, I might consider a different vehicle. Sorry, couldn't resist.

I agree. If I am looking for a vehicle and read and hear about issues like this, I scratch that vehicle off the list.

 

[burla]

Well dealers call it normal hemi noise, and this often happens when the vehicle hits the second or third oil change before the brand new vehicles hits 10k miles. So if you are in position to loose 10 grand because of hemi tick, congrats. Good luck on that trade with a knocking hemi, lol. My engine started ticking at 3500 miles, and now thanks to redline has been silent for 6 years. Paired with a spun micro-glass filter, I am on an extended uoa backed up with uoa's so the oil literally pays for itself. I would say people who live with hemi tick when all they have to do is use a different oil are true darwin award winners. It is rather funny that in an oil forum with multiple users experiencing the same thing, and in this thread with video evidence, the conversation is about what you feel instead of what the formula is doing for these engines. BITOG's finest 2018

 

[Olas]

Has anybody isolated the component that ticks and come up with a proper fix? Quietening it down addresses the symptom but not the cause.

 

[burla]

Yes,it is the lifters, but unfortunately we have guys even change the lifters to brand new lifters and still have them tick, no joke. I'm not sure we can say the fact the lifters aren't ticking on redline is providing adequate lubrication or film strength or if it like you say masking it. I think either position is not proven. However, the guys that are doing uoa's are showing much lower wear numbers when the tick is gone. So it is like this, what do you have to loose if one oil kills your ticks and another doesn't? Well let's just buy the oil that makes my truck tick? It just makes no sense, and I certainly do not think people should just say Redline is the only oil that can do this. I think more people should test it, find out why redline is stopping the ticks, it is the esters, pao, high moly? If we can isolate what is killing the ticks, hopefully there will be more options then just redline, or possibly motul/millers.

 

[burla]

Maybe someone should try the Nissan ester oil, see if that is successful at killing ticks, the entire reason they made that was to make noisy engines more quiet.