Mobil 1 & Oil Consumption in Hondas

[buster]

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: buster
Last night I was talking to my neighbor ...He said he stopped using Mobil 1 because when he switched over to it, his car started to consume oil.

Testimonials are cheap. Here's mine: "Four grades of M1 in three cars over 11 years and never added any make-up oil". There - neighbor neutralized.

Originally Posted By: buster
Something in Mobil 1's formulations causes higher than normal oil consumption in *certain engines. I've heard it could be the higher volatility of the Alkylated Napthalene base oils.

XOM's 5 cSt AN is less volatile than 4 cSt PAO (NOACK 12.7% vs 14%)

Tom NJ


Thanks Tom for putting that one to rest. I was under the assumption the AN's had higher volatility.

Statistically, it's hard to prove Mobil 1 causes higher oil consumption.

 

[buster]

Noack for M1 5w30 used to be around 6%. It's now 11-13% since they made the switch to Grp III. Keep that in mind too.

 

[demarpaint]

I used M1 for close to 20 years in the same vehicle, I never added a drop, I ran PP for two OCI's no oil added. I'm now using Edge and the oil level after the first 1000 miles hasn't moved. Only observation I have to report is the engine made the most noise with M1, although it was not objectionable or anything for me to be concerned with.

Each engine is different, perhaps in certain applications, one oil might perform better than another as far as consumption is concerned.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: rclint
I think tig1 is some close kin to some exxon mobil folks... it has to be the mobil 1 group of engineers... techs etc. I posted earlier, however it was storming here so I will go back and repost my original post..


You are on to me.

Very interesting...

 

[ahoier]

I've heard of this concumption too.....was it either Saturn or Nissan, I remember reading a report of one of those 2 having "problems" with burning (or losing...lol whatever way you look at it) oil.

 

[ThirdeYe]

I am at currently around 4,000 miles on my current OCI with Mobil 1 0W-40 in my Honda B18B1. It is down half-way between the add/full marks (1/2 quart burned). It started on the full mark. I've always just used 5W-30 and this is my first time using Mobil products in this car. It hasn't consumed oil with any other oil I've used... always stays at the full mark. Coincidence? I find it even more odd, because you would think using a heavier grade would actually decrease consumption, not increase it.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: rclint
I think tig1 is some close kin to some exxon mobil folks... it has to be the mobil 1 group of engineers... techs etc. I posted earlier, however it was storming here so I will go back and repost my original post..


You are on to me.

Very interesting...

Tig and FZ1 were a two prong assault force. Tig for the extended drain synthetic crowd ..and FZ1 for the high volume throughput interests.

"5000 miles. No more!" "Be a sport and cut the engine a break. 5000 miles max".

G'kar: No one here is exactly what they appear to be. ...

 

[Scott_Tucker]

I've been running Mobil 1 10w/30 in my wifes Odyssey for about 10k and have only had to add about 1/3 of a quarts which I was consider normal. Previous oil was Castrol synthetic and I had to add a similar amount.

If this 'problem' is specific to Honda's what does everyone think is different in the mechanical design of Honda's that causes this?

 

[garlicbreadman]

Originally Posted By: ThirdeYe
I am at currently around 4,000 miles on my current OCI with Mobil 1 0W-40 in my Honda B18B1. It is down half-way between the add/full marks (1/2 quart burned). It started on the full mark. I've always just used 5W-30 and this is my first time using Mobil products in this car. It hasn't consumed oil with any other oil I've used... always stays at the full mark. Coincidence? I find it even more odd, because you would think using a heavier grade would actually decrease consumption, not increase it.


interesting.....m1 strikes again?

I dont have anything against m1, i just prefer many other oils over it.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker

If this 'problem' is specific to Honda's what does everyone think is different in the mechanical design of Honda's that causes this?


low-tension rings.

 

[edhackett]

It's not specific to Honda. Past and current Subaru owners often have similar results.

Buster may be onto something with the AN. I ran Mobil 1 10W30 in my 1995 2.2 Legacy and it used 0.5 qt/5K. When they introduced the Tri-Synthetic formula, which included AN, the consumption jumped to over 2 qts/5k. I ran that formula for 2 OCI with no drop in consumption. The loss rate dropped immediately back to 0.5 qt/5k with a change in oil brand. I don't have an further data on M1, as I'm a 'fool me once' type of guy.

The consumption was too great to be accounted for by volatility. I suspect it's an interaction between the bore finish, ring tension, and ring material. Certain families of engines may have a combination of these that promote oil use with certain formulations.

Ed

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: db500
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
M1 0w-40 is notorious for burning-off.


0W40 burns off quickly...[censored], I already bought some. I would have thought the 40 side would help that issue.

0W40 does not "burn off quickly" ,you going to listen to a guy that despise M1?

i can tell you from experience it does not burn off it may shear some in certain applications but that's it,0w40 is a great oil.

nice factual info there AJ still at hey?

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker

If this 'problem' is specific to Honda's what does everyone think is different in the mechanical design of Honda's that causes this?


low-tension rings.


If that's the case, why would M1 be so (allegedly) opportunistic in oil loss? Why wouldn't a wide range of oils fall into this category like they do with some Saturn engines?

 

[Audi Junkie]

I'm not saying I have all the answers.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ

XOM's 5 cSt AN is less volatile than 4 cSt PAO (NOACK 12.7% vs 14%)

Tom NJ


Hello Tom,

Does AN typically have less volatility than PAO? Or does this have more to do with the heavier viscosity or particular formulation?

Thanks.

 

[CompSyn]

I have a 97 Honda Civic EX and it does consume some oil. I'm not using Mobil 1 but rather Amsoil 0W-30 with a NOACK 8.65. In 5,000-miles it consumed 1 quart, 10 ounces. This is of course much less than the industry accepted consumption loss of 1qt. per 1000-miles, but still a pain nonetheless.

Background:

I bought the car at 40k from an individual that included a stack of maintenance records from his local Honda dealer.

The car now has 145k on it and I've personally kept up on oil changes and maintenance myself changing the oil every 3-months or much less than 3,000-miles with top brand conventional motor oil.

With the conventional oil being changed less than 3,000-miles/3-months, I never noticed oil consumption. In 3-months, the mileage was more like 1,500-miles.

At 130k, I switched to Amsoil 0W-30 and started extending oil changes past 3,000-miles. I've run between 5,000-to-7,500-miles on the Amsoil in a years time. I notice at around 2,500-3,000-miles the car starts to consume oil at a steady rate of 8-to-12oz. per month.

I wonder if I had let the conventional oil hit the 2,500-3,000-mile mark, if it too would have started consuming? Don't know?

As long as I've owned the car, I've noticed NO oil leaks and NO exhaust smoking. All the spark plugs are clean with NO oil fouling.

The car does have fuel dilution at 2-to-3%. I'm told by Polaris Labs that my model of engine averages 2% fuel dilution which is surprising to me as I though any Honda would have a much tighter grasp on fuel dilution.

I guess it's a roll of the dice with ANY brand car and ANY brand oil...

 

[buickman50401]

Originally Posted By: buster
Considering M1 represents 60% of the syn lube market, it's really hard to say. However, it does seem that a lot of people have issues with M1 & consumption when compared to other brands.

I've always had consumption issues with it across a broad range of cars.

GM 3.1L always used at least 3/4qt between its 5000mi OCI running M1 5w30 or 0w30. On any other syn or dino it would be less than 1/4qt.

GM 3800 - 1/2qt+ at 3,000mi OCI running M1 10w30. Other syns and dino, no consumption.

2.slow Golf - 3/4qt at 6,000mi OCI on M1 0w40. Syntec 5w40 was about 1/4qt. Elf Solaris 5w30 no consumption.

2.5L Tech 4 Cutlass Ceira - 1qt at 3000mi. Dino 1/4-1/2 qt.

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Hello Tom,

Does AN typically have less volatility than PAO? Or does this have more to do with the heavier viscosity or particular formulation?

Thanks.


At equal viscosities the ANs are comparable to Group IIIs and perhaps slightly more volatile than 1-decene based PAOs. A lot depends on the molecular structures and processing techniques.

XOM's AN 5 is 4.7 cSt with a NOACK of 12.7%, while their PAO 4 is 4.1 cSt with a a NOACK of 14% and their PAO 6 is 6.1 cSt with a NOACK of 6.4%. If you plot the PAOs, the AN falls slightly above the curve.

By comparison, POEs in the 4-6 cSt range have NOACKs in the 2-4% range depending on the structure.

Tom NJ

 

[tig1]

In my Duratect 4s I change at 10-11k. The last OC on the Fusion was 3 weeks ago with 11K on the oil. Oil level dropped 1/16 of an inch on dip stick and the Focus is about the same. Older engines in the past showed various amounts of usage, but none were a problem.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I'm not saying I have all the answers.


Fair nuff. It wasn't a challenge. Just a question

..but for our purposes ..the presentation Tom's giving us here, it would not appear that one can attribute this to ...mmm (frustrated here).

Given the numbers he's quoting AND given the (alleged) affinity of M1's consumption ..AND assuming that we're dealing with synthetics ...the volatility numbers aren't that different to warrant the distinction of the product. Everyone else would have to be running POE to matter (or am I reading this incorrectly?).