Metal shavings in oil at 20k!?!??

[Trav]

This engine is broken in already, these particles just didn't appear out of some crevice in a casting somewhere something is causing them.
In over 35 years doing this for a living i never saw a engine just start shedding specs of metal no matter how small unless it was a unit with gearbox attached and shared the same oil e.g original Mini's and motorcycles.

This is the fifth OC and you notice it on this one and not the others? That is a good indicator IMO.
You need to document this ASAP with the dealer even if they say there is possibly nothing wrong.
It may be nothing significant but on the other hand who knows.

As far as people claiming you can run 0w20 in this engine don't believe everything you read on a forum.
If Ford saw fit to allow its use they would have spec'd it or at least allowed it as an alternative.
If they don't there is a good reason especially when this a 2011 engine, its not like the oil was unavailable when the engine was built.

 

[Bluestream]

I would say all is normal. Small metal filings are normal in any engine and that's why they have filters. Every filter I have opened over the last 40 years has had some, and I have never had engine problems ever.

I thought you were talking about "shavings" which are large pieces. There are no shavings here.

 

[Trav]

I agree its not uncommon to very small specs in the filter but the only problem i have with this is why are they not in the filter? Are the particles he saw come out in the oil to big to pass through the oil pickup screen.
I think that would be a problem.

 

[Klutch9]

Originally Posted By: Trav
If they don't there is a good reason especially when this a 2011 engine, its not like the oil was unavailable when the engine was built.


True, but other considerations such as the price of the oil may have also played a role, especially in an econobox commuter car which most people buy for overall value and price. Ford also already has a well established 5w-20 syn-blend oil in its Motorcraft brand, so putting a ton of research and money into a 0w-20 oil may not have been cost-effective for them.

 

[demarpaint]

Interesting. Ford specs 5W20, they could deny warranty claims because 0W20 was used even though we know better. I called Chrysler about using 0W20 in my 5W20 app and they flat out said NO! I was told only to use 5W20, period end of discussion. A log without receipts is useless. Get creative, drain the oil put 5W20 in the sump and find someone who has receipts. Even if they bought enough oil for 10 oil changes at a time. They can't penalize you for hoarding oil, they can for using an oil they didn't spec.

I better hide now.

BTW this could also be normal and nothing to worry about..............

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: Miller88


My parents have a 2008 Jeep with a lifetime powertrane warranty; it knocks and burns oil (and we've found metal in the oil as well) and chrysler says it's normal.



No vehicle manufacturer gives a lifetime powertrain warranty. The power train includes the engine and the engine will wear out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powertrain

 

[nitehawk55]

Originally Posted By: Trav

As far as people claiming you can run 0w20 in this engine don't believe everything you read on a forum.
If Ford saw fit to allow its use they would have spec'd it or at least allowed it as an alternative.
If they don't there is a good reason especially when this a 2011 engine, its not like the oil was unavailable when the engine was built.

How can a 0W20 oil vs a 5W20 oil be an issue ? Is it going to be thinner when hot or vulnerable to shear ?
I would like you to explain why you feel it is not good to use a 0W20 grade of oil .

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Interesting. Ford specs 5W20, they could deny warranty claims because 0W20 was used even though we know better. I called Chrysler about using 0W20 in my 5W20 app and they flat out said NO! I was told only to use 5W20, period end of discussion. A log without receipts is useless. Get creative, drain the oil put 5W20 in the sump and find someone who has receipts. Even if they bought enough oil for 10 oil changes at a time. They can't penalize you for hoarding oil, they can for using an oil they didn't spec.

I better hide now.

BTW this could also be normal and nothing to worry about..............



What would happen if you purchased some oil and sent in the original receipt for a rebate? You wouldn't have proof except for the check if you made a photocopy.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Loobed
Originally Posted By: Miller88


My parents have a 2008 Jeep with a lifetime powertrane warranty; it knocks and burns oil (and we've found metal in the oil as well) and chrysler says it's normal.



No vehicle manufacturer gives a lifetime powertrain warranty. The power train includes the engine and the engine will wear out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powertrain



It was a gimmick Chrysler was doing a few years ago to boost sales, my Jeep has it. I'm supposed to bring it in before its 5th birthday for them to "give it a free inspection" to maintain the LT engine and power train warranty. I'm sure they'll try and sell me the Brooklyn Bridge and the water flowing under it too if/when I bring it in.

OT but I was wondering how many people went for that free check and what their experiences were. Maybe I'll start a thread and ask as my Jeep gets closer to its 5th B-day.

 

[MaxPilot]

Regarding warrantee issues... it would be up to the manufacturer to prove that you failed to change your oil. Maintenance logs are all that is needed. Nowhere does a warrantee state that you have to buy the oil used in a change. You could have received the oil for free or had the service done free. Nowhere does a warrantee state that the service has to be performed by the dealer or a certain kind of service provider.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
I would like you to explain why you feel it is not good to use a 0W20 grade of oil.

This is a newer car with warranty and disregarding the manufacturers specs is a good (and IMO correct) reason for denying a warranty claim.
FORD is saying that, ask them why they don't spec it.

I never said there is a performance issue its simply not an oil spec'd for that engine and thats more than a good enough reason not to use it if someone expects the company to cough up under warranty.
Whether it protects the same or not in this particular engine who knows but that should be irrelevant unless one is willing to accept the repair cost if the thing goes south.

 

[Garak]

I like Trav's advice. Since you have changed the oil rather often already, break in metals shouldn't just start suddenly appearing. I stand by my advice not to get terribly alarmed, but documenting it with the dealer would certainly be in order.

At worst, there's a problem you can address. At best, it's simply nothing and the car will be doing fine.

 

[antiqueshell]

I can think of one other thing to ask he OP.

Did he put seafoam into the intake at any point, any other maintenance like that he can think of.

 

[DuckRyder]

While I agree that this might not be much to worry about, I probably would try to document it with Ford and get a UOA.

I suspect that a log book with the changes in it along with fuel might pass muster (I've seen it do so with GM) if they are intermingled and don't all look like they were just written.

The oil meeting spec is (IMHO) going to be a bigger issue...

I wouldn't try to use someone else's receipts or otherwise lie about it, aside from the fact it is dishonest and a fine example of not taking responsibility for one's actions

they probably won't buy it anyway and they will be disinclined to try to help when they catch

.

 

[John_Snyder]

I think the lack of receipts etc. would only be an issue if the damage appears to be CAUSED by improper oil/maintenance. Without knowing the source of the "shavings", it's hard to determine what the cause could be. Only a lubrication related failure may bring up issues. An outright mechanical defect could be the root cause, in which case maintenance or lack thereof wouldn't be significant. Right now it's just guesswork.

However, if it were up to me, at this point I would:
- keep all receipts
- make sure the oil I'm using MEETS their "requirements" (even if it seems silly - at least for the warrany period)
- get a UOA done on the next change

Depending on the results of the UOA, how to proceed from there may vary.

Myself, like many others on here tend to "hoard" oil when we find it available for a great price. I also tend to buy my filters a few at a time to reduce trips to the parts store. I also maintain 3 cars that use the same filter - so having a stockpile is helpful.

Because of this, so far what I've done is keep each oil filter that I've removed, and write the date and mileage of the change on the box. I keep each filter about half full, and have them all carefully stored so they won't get spilled. That way IF something comes up, I have plenty of "proof" that the oil was changed, and even the used oil to do a UOA if necessary to prove it. My warranty is still good for a couple more years (or another 61,000km currently - up to 160k), so my "stash" of used filters will continue to grow for a little while still. Of course I also write down all of the intervals in a note pad as well as the provided area in the original manual - and all of those bits of info will fully coincide with the info written on the filters.

Hopefully I never "need" to deal with this myself - but I figured it seemed like a fairly easy way to provide an additional bit of proof if ever questioned. I'm glad my car specifies both 0W20 and 5W20 on the oil cap - so I've got a very wide choice of what I can use.

I hope that this doesn't escalate into a nasty problem for the OP. Please keep us posted as anything develops - it's always good to find out how different manufacturers deal with DIY maintenance. I just don't like other people working on my cars - no matter how simple the job. I suspect I'm not entirely alone on here...

Good luck!
John

 

[johnachak]

Originally Posted By: Trav
I agree its not uncommon to very small specs in the filter but the only problem i have with this is why are they not in the filter? Are the particles he saw come out in the oil to big to pass through the oil pickup screen.
I think that would be a problem.

How about this.. in warming it up for the oil change, it reached high enough rpms to go to bypass and some flakes were dislodged into the pan?

 

[johnachak]

Originally Posted By: Loobed
Originally Posted By: Miller88


My parents have a 2008 Jeep with a lifetime powertrane warranty; it knocks and burns oil (and we've found metal in the oil as well) and chrysler says it's normal.



No vehicle manufacturer gives a lifetime powertrain warranty. The power train includes the engine and the engine will wear out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powertrain

At one point Chrysler Did in fact offer a lifetime power train warranty. I distinctly remember the ads.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: johnachak
At one point Chrysler Did in fact offer a lifetime power train warranty. I distinctly remember the ads.


They still do, at least on the Cummins pickups up here.

As for the oil filter suggestion, I suppose that's possible if it was something with dome end bypass and depending upon filter orientation.

 

[Coprolite]

It is more likely that the metal in the pan was either too heavy to get picked up or hadn't made it to the filter yet. I would also suggest looking up the definition of bypass.

 

[Bladecutter]

Is this engine a timing chain engine, or a timing belt engine?

If it were my car, and a timing chain engine, I would pop off the valve cover, and look around the timing chain areas to see if the chain has stretched, and is hitting the block or valve cover anywhere.

If yes, then I would take the car into the dealer, and tell them you just did an oil change, saw shavings in the oil that you drained, popped off the valve cover, and saw damage.

They won't deny the warranty if you have visible evidence of damage.

And honestly, just having a log book with so much information in it, you might meet their requirement for documentation, even without receipts. Some dealers are very forgiving if you have lots of information, but no actual receipts.

BC.