Right?
Sometimes the stuff people have to imagine in order to ignore facts is just amazing. It borders on being comical sometimes.
MC FL-820S Cut Open
- Thread starter BlueOvalFitter
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Sometimes the stuff people have to imagine in order to ignore facts is just amazing. It borders on being comical sometimes.
Well you know. Trying to be nice because that’s what I usually get criticized for.
The only "fact" I've seen on this forum is pages of hysteria from a few vocal members. The cause of the hysteria? Apparently in the last 16 years, less than a dozen MC820S oil filters were found to have a mystery minor tear in the media. The long-awaited "spreadsheet of doom" had 1, exactly 1, bad 820S. And we have no idea the history of the filters, many of which looked tar-black suggesting neglected maintenance. The number of which is LESS THAN a statistical anomaly. It's a non-event nothing burger.
What seems to be ignored by the hysterical folks is the fact that these filters have not been the blame of a single reported engine failure to my knowledge. And there must be tens of millions of these filters on vehicles right now without issue. They are extremely popular, found on many models of high mileage fleet cars (police, taxis, limos, civilian variants across many model lineups) and pickup trucks and others. I've now many more cut open that look well constructed and fine, than a few that had subjective "issues" which are debatable at best. They are the recommended filter by Ford, which has billions of financial dollars at stake on their performance.
There's your facts.
The hysteria over this, which was shocking to me to learn of it, is akin to refusing to go to the beach with miles of coastline, because there is 1 broken bottle somewhere on the beach.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Putting "facts" in quotes like that implies it isn't true, where in fact torn filters from Purolator have been observed on here, and yes that includes some Motorcraft examples that are produced by the same company.
It's basic statistics that, in a sample size of the members C&P'ing filters, being representative of the whole, means that there are clearly a significantly number of media failures that are not being caught, because most people don't cut open filters.
A media failure does NOT mean that there is going to be the proverbial "pile of failed engines", it just means that the impacted rigs have, during the OCI with that filter in place, received oil that was not as well filtered. Given the fact that filters bypass the media during periods of high differential pressure and that millions of OPE engines gladly soldier alone without filters at all, it's clear that the odd filter that tears in service isn't going to have a sudden and dramatic impact on the service life of the equipment in question. If an engine sees 500 bypass events during a typical OCI and experiences a torn filter on another OCI where a portion of the oil is bypassing during the entire OCI, it's not a huge deal.
"Back in the day" some of the oil filtration systems, like found on the flathead and Y-Block were only bypass anyways, with only a portion of the oil directed through a filter canister while most of it went straight from the pump through the engine.
So, while clean oil is beneficial to achieving the absolutely best longevity out of a piece of equipment there are myriad factors here that also play-in to how that longevity is achieved that may be more significant. Taxi service means many, MANY OCI's and almost constant operation, the rate at which miles are accrued and the infrequent number of warm-up events likely plays a far more significant role in overall longevity than the fact that the vehicle might have one or two filters on them over their lifetime with a media tear that results in more unfiltered oil being passed during that OCI than on others.
Perspective is key.
The 820 must be made on a dedicated line, none of the others suffer from wide pleat like they do. I would say someone is asleep at the wheel and the years inching closer towards retirement is the main concern. I don’t think I would have any problem with them, because I drive ridiculously easy.
Regardless of your sources of "data" or viewpoint ... the fact is the FL820S tears way more than any other Motorcraft oil filter. Other models like the FL500S/FL400S/FL910S don't seem to have the issue.
You keep referencing the "spreadsheet", but like I said before that spreadsheet was only maintained a very short time way back in 2014, and since then there have been quite a few members here who have posed up torn FL820S filters. You have a very narrow field of view on the subject matter and that gives you a myopic viewpoint.
Excellent theory, is the retail source disclosed?My son buys his 820S filters from work. Maybe they are REAL Ford MC filters and the others are knock offs being sold by WM and other places.
I know, it even sounds far fetched to me. And, l cant explain why his filter looks better. The WM theory is just me reaching for some kind of answer.
Yes the brand hysteria is true, when a nice filter is shown, and the unrelated posts about tearing soon are following. It’s as if the pictures of no torn media change to torn. They are of course not even users of the 820s, which borders on amazing as to the motive. No, it is amazing.
Key words ... "to your knowlege". There very well could be some instances of torn media going into the oiling system and causing some engine damage. Just because it's never been posted/proven here doesn't mean it could have happened somewhere. Ford even says that filters that tear media is a bad thing and something to avoid.
What an absolute joke. The very definition of “hysteria” which you seem to like to throw around a lot. There are some brands on here for which we have never seen a torn filter.
hys•te•ri•a hĭ-stĕr′ē-ə, -stîr′-
- n.
Behavior exhibiting excessive or uncontrollable emotion, such as fear or panic. - n.
A group of psychiatric symptoms, including heightened emotionality, attention-seeking behavior, and physical symptoms in the absence of organic pathology. The symptoms of hysteria are currently attributed to any of several psychiatric conditions, including somatization disorder, multiple personality disorder, and histrionic personality disorder. The term hysteria is no longer used in clinical use.
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Dozens of allegations of poorly made oil filters, chastising them, and refusing to use them based on a statistically irrelevant few opened up and shown with irrelevantly torn media - which has proven to cause NO HARM TO A SINGLE ENGINE - fits squarely in the definition of hysteria. To wit, excessive or uncontrollable fear mongering about a product absent any statistically important information, while ignoring many that are opened up on camera that are totally fine, the overwhelmingly happy customers, and the tens of millions of filters successfully used over many many decades....
People will use what they decide based on information they see. Posted photos of filters with torn media is there for all to see. Of course, there will be the aluminum foil hat guys who claim it was all staged and sabotaged, lol.
So you know for sure that "no harm to a single engine" has ever occurred from a torn filter ... why? ... because nobody has here has show a case of it happening? Pretty weak "science" from a guy who based everything on "data".
While at WM Friday night looking for sheets for my new Futon, there were sock puppets on a hanger. I was playing with a bear and Zebra one. My lady friend thought l was so cute doing this. It earned me some brownie points later that nightHummm, maybe BOF has a new sock puppet.
You have a very good feel of the forum for someone who “joined” recently.
You don't know if one of those sock puppet buddies destroyed an engine or two. Just because no one has reported it doesn't mean it didn't happen. In fact sock puppets could be worse than The Fram Ultra at destroying engines. Let's just go there, sock puppets are engine destroyers while the Fram Ultra is not. All this is deduced from your perfectly fine Motorcraft 820S being cut open and posted.While at WM Friday night looking for sheets for my new Futon, there were sock puppets on a hanger. I was playing with a bear and Zebra one. My lady friend thought l was so cute doing this. It earned me some brownie points later that night
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
It is very easy to determine the statistical significance.
If members of this board have cut open 100 Purolator filters and 5 of them have had a media tear, that's a 5% tear rate, which is significant. It's impossible for BITOG members to have somehow obtained all the torn filters, so if that sample is representative of the whole, that's an alarming figure. Of course the larger the sample size we have the more accurate that figure is going to be, but you can't just hand-waive it away because you don't like it.
As I said in my previous lengthy reply, a torn filter doesn't mean damage will happen or that it will shorten the life of the piece of equipment. Bypass events happen with cold oil, with thick oil and high RPM...etc. So just having more unfiltered oil passing isn't a death sentence, but it's clearly not desirable.
Actually that was a typo, it was a Motorcraft 820s, off my personal truck, a 2008 f350.
Was in service for 1 year with less than 3000 miles. Garage kept, no severe use, just runs to the lumber yard and a trip or 2 with the camper trailer.
Here's the original thread I started. One of the most pathetic looking filters I've ever cut open.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/motorcraft-fl820s-fail.306277/
"Pure quality" ... ???
Some of the FL820s look OK, others don't. Of all the Motorcraft filters, there is a lot of inconsistency with the FL820.
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