Manual transmission "snobs"?

[javacontour]

I'm pretty aggressive when it comes to corners and ramps. But the aggressive lane changing and etc is probably speeding up the demise of your vehicle more than it is improving your time to work.

I've been to enough autocross events to know that the guy who is typically fastest doesn't look so furious. He looks effortless in most cases.

Of course, that depends on the car and the course. However, conservation of momentum is often your friend. Aggressive driving doesn't do that.

I'm an MTX snob. Many have heard me say the words, "The automatic transmission is the work of the devil."

 

[Artemedes]

I wouldn't say I was a snob, but I certainly prefer MTs. I think most people I know are better off with autos with the way they drive.

I recently bought a new car when my 97 camry finally hit the point that it made little sense to fix everything it needed (I got it used and abused). It was an auto and did okay, but I was determined to get back into a stick.

I decided that for the money and economy that a 2005-2007 corolla was the next car to get me to work and back. I had a very hard time finding one with a manual that wasn't overpriced. So much so that I had to buy a brand new one, and didn't get the color I liked. The used ones with manuals were selling for almost new prices and already had 20-30k miles on them. It took me 4 trips to the local dealers to even find one in stock. It has been two months and the "Cactus Mica" has actually grown on me. It is a nice light green metallic and fairly unique.

As to being back in a manual.... I love it! Even though it is a small car with fuel sipping engine, I have much less trouble getting up to hwy speeds and merging than I did with the old camry. I bought it as a practical commuter, but it has turned out to be much more fun to drive than I expected. Not as fun as my old impreza or supra (both manuals), but I didn't buy it to use as a sports car either. I am still convinced that I bought a good car to serve me until small diesels or better cheaper hybrids come out.

Best thing about this little car is that it looks like I will be able to do almost all of maint. and repairs. It has a nice open clean engine bay.

Sorry to digress. Just that I am still happy with my recent purchase.

Kevin

 

[JohnBrowning]

Tallpall,Autoshift is a different beast then an Automatic. An autoshift has a gear set like any manual transmission but replaces the shift linkage and or clutch actuator of common form with either electronic or phnuematic actuators. THey can be manaul controlled or computer controlled or both. An automatic use's a torque converter, planatary or CV gear set and operates primarly by hydralic force multiplication with electronic controls in the hydralic circuit. Class A/8 Combination vechile ie "Big Rigs" are available with autoshift. It functions much like an automatic in your car would but mechanicaly is drasticly different and is basicly a manual that is compter shifted and cluthed. You put themin "D,R,L" etc..... Some will allow you to hold a gear by pressing and holding a button to prevent a shift in traffic.

 

[oilnoob425]

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it's slow(defensive), inconsidarate self-absorbed drivers that cut you off without even looking just because they are in hurry- are real #@$%!.

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Your hard braking and accelerating patterns tell me that you don't understand physics all that well. its not particularly necessary, to get around even on congested roads.

And those slow drivers you speak of are the same ones that want an applicane box to get from A to B, and are exactly the same people who want ATs, so that they don't have to pay attention to their driving. Whether youre starting/stopping hard and "paying attention" to the road such that you can weave and drive aggressively, or youre driving slow and inattentively, its all poor driving ability, and a feeling of entitlement and invincibility that is not there.

Bad accidents and broken necks will likely be the payout.

JMH

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I don't inconvinence anybody with my driving thus it's not poor. I never had a problem woith drivers like me when I drive slow. One minute they there and they're gone. hard braking and accelerating are just things we HAVE TO do to get around. My car is not a sport car thus needs to be hustled more. Poor drivers are the ones buying 400hp car or moding the #@$%! out of them and driving like a grannys delaying traffic and more skillful drivers such as myself. I don't care if you just wanna get from A to B. If you can't drive get out of the road and learn to drive better because you are threat. Driving ed in US is a joke that's why you got so many accidents. And it's not an "aggressive" drivers that get into them.

 

[Kernel Potter]

Let's see where to start? For those who drive a manual transmission in day to day driving, Can you heel and toe? Do you understand exactly how it's done and exactly why it's of benefit in a manual transmission compared to an auto transmission?

How about powershifting; can you shift your manual trans without ever lifting off the accelerator? It can certainly be done. How about never lifting off the accelerator AND NEVER pushing in the clutch for a shift(you know just like automatics shift). It is done with manuals and people with these skills excel in racing compared to those without these skills. Of course F1 drivers don't have to have these skills because they have a button to push to make it all happen on their automatic transmissions. I guess there's no way they're going to chance a mistake or give up consistency. The rules don't say they have to so they don't.

How about as you're cruising along at 30mph to 40 mph and you want maximum acceleration. Do you shift from say 4th gear, bang it down to 1st gear catching the last 400 or 500 rpm, getting rubber in the process, banging into second right at the redline while getting another scratch?. All this happening between 35 and 45 mph or depending on the car a similar 10 mph span? My automatic does it. Whenever I ask. I think my automatic knows how to drive better than 99.7% of people who drive manual transmissions.

Someone mentioned it becomes second nature to shift a manual. It does and getting from A to B shifting a manual can certainly become like brushing your teeth but says nothing of actual driving skills and car control. Just because you've become real good at brushing your teeth doesn't mean you're a qualified dentist.

So essentially, if you can't really control a manual like the above examples AND have disdain and lower regard for automatic drivers, then yes you are a manual transmission snob.

 

[Warlord]

Oilnoob. Why do you need to go so fast that you must dodge slower drivers the whole time? Why not leave five minutes earlier and go as slow as everyone else. You'd save gas and it would be a bit safer for everyone on the road. Slow drivers aren't necessarily bad drivers, in many cases they are simply driving smart.

 

[MN Driver]

I like manual transmissions for all of the listed reasons. A few additional reasons as well, such as being able to start my car with a dead battery if needed. I hate the way that torque convertors act, I always want them to lock up when I am in the higher gears while accelerating so less gas is wasted and all of that power is going to the ground and not through fluid. When driving an automatic I usually end up modulating the throttle in such a way so that I can keep the car in higher gears for better gas mileage. With a stick these things just are not an issue, which is why I prefer driving them. I also plan to continue purchasing inexpensive cars(Which are generally over 100,000 miles/10 years by nature) and when doing this there is more comfort in buying a manual because problems with manual transmissions are typically obvious and not intermittent, while problems with automatics can be hard to detect.

...Just a few more reasons of why I choose a stick shift. There are a few people I know who really shouldn't drive at all and driving a stick shift wouldn't help but I have already taught 5 people to drive a stick with my car and now they are happy to know how.

I suppose I wouldn't mind driving an automatic as much as I did if the torque convertor didn't unlock every time I let go of the gas or downshift when I just wanted a little more speed. I really didn't like how when driving an automatic and I needed to get into traffic quickly that WOT leads to the car jerking its way to 5000 rpm at 35mph just to shift into second gear in less than 2 seconds with another heavy jerk when the time that the auto took to shift was more time, effort, and wear than it could have saved by shifting to second in the first place. I guess that if I had to go back to driving a liquid-coupled computer controlled transmission that I would like to be able to change a few parameters so it would better suit how I expect it my transmission to do its job.

Most important thing IMO, doesn't matter what kind of transmission you have under the hood, they all get the job done. Just depends on how you want it to be done.

 

[ccs v2.0]

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Let's see where to start?...

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1) Street car trannies have helical cut gears, mostly to keep whining down. They are not really suited for powershifting and consistently doing so is asking for trouble. Straight cut gear tranny shifting on the other hand is really easy. Ask any big rig driver.
2) Heel n' toe: depends on what shoes I'm wearing...

3) 99.7%? Accurate to three significan digits?

 

[brianl703]

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How about never lifting off the accelerator AND NEVER pushing in the clutch for a shift(you know just like automatics shift).

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That shouldn't be done with a synchronized manual transmission. (WHY? Because if you are wrong, it's hard to know because the synchronizers work to make up the difference, which wears them out quicker). With a non-synchronized manual transmission, such as found in 18-wheelers, it is commonly done.

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How about as you're cruising along at 30mph to 40 mph and you want maximum acceleration. Do you shift from say 4th gear, bang it down to 1st gear catching the last 400 or 500 rpm, getting rubber in the process, banging into second right at the redline while getting another scratch?. All this happening between 35 and 45 mph or depending on the car a similar 10 mph span? My automatic does it.

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What's the torque curve of your engine look like those last 500RPM? (Many are running out of breath there). What's your 1st gear ratio compared to the 2nd gear ratio of a manual (which is the gear that a manual driver would select for that shift). Automatics typically have taller 1st gear ratios; for one particular car, the automatic version redlines at 42MPH in 1st whereas the manual version redlines at 59MPH in 2nd).

 

[Steve S]

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How many of you have driven the ZF 6-speed Adaptive Learning A/T??

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The question should be how many have asked how much does it cost to repair/rebuild a zf 6 speed adaptive learning trans.

 

[benjamming]

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Of course F1 drivers don't have to have these skills because they have a button to push to make it all happen on their automatic transmissions.

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Well, almost automatics. What are their shifts down to now - 70-80 ms?

 

[tigrpal]

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I think my automatic knows how to drive better than 99.7% of people who drive manual transmissions.

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We can't let this trend continue. With such knowledge, automatic transmissions will take over the world. We can't let that happen. We must fight back.

 

[CBDFrontier06]

Let's cut off the supply of ATF and let them all die slow agonizing deaths. ;-)

 

[ccs v2.0]

And while we're at it, have all rebuild prices equal those of rebuilding a CVT. How do you like me now HAL?

 

[Kestas]

One point nobody has brought up is that the EPA hates cars with manual transmissions. With every shift there's a shot of rich fuel going through the engine that doesn't get completely burned. Ford had a big go-around with the EPA some time back because of this issue.

 

[brianl703]

Ford's solution was to hold the IAC open when the clutch disengaged. This has been known as "throttle hang".

The end-user's solution to Ford's solution to EPA's problem is to stick a pipe plug with a hole drilled into it into the rubber hose leading to the IAC.

 

[CBDFrontier06]

When does this take place, at throttle lift?

 

[brianl703]

Yes, so Ford has the computer hold the IAC open so the revs stay up to burn off the extra fuel after you've taken your foot off the gas. IAC = idle air control valve, an electromechanical valve that bypasses the throttle plate.

 

[Axe Man]

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Yes, so Ford has the computer hold the IAC open so the revs stay up to burn off the extra fuel after you've taken your foot off the gas. IAC = idle air control valve, an electromechanical valve that bypasses the throttle plate.

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This is not just limited to Ford. Almost all OBD-II vehicles with manual transmissions do this to some extent.

It's easy to see it in action. Stop on a hill facing down. Clutch down, brake on. Engine at operating temp. A/C off. Watch the tach. Usual curb idle on most vehicles is approx 750 - 850 RPM. Release the brake and allow vehicle to coast with clutch down. As soon as you get to about 5 - 10 MPH the VSS signals the ECU. You'll suddenly see the idle jump up to about 1000 - 1200 RPM. That's the throttle hang in action. The process also takes place when slowing down and you throw the clutch and brake. The engine RPM's "hang" at about 1000 - 1200 RPM until you come to a stop. Then goes down to normal curb idle.

My Civic operates this way. So did recently sold Kia Sportage. And this so called "throttle hang" has even been around in OBD-I days and even in older carb vehicles with stick shifts.

 

[Axe Man]

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How about as you're cruising along at 30mph to 40 mph and you want maximum acceleration. Do you shift from say 4th gear, bang it down to 1st gear catching the last 400 or 500 rpm, getting rubber in the process, banging into second right at the redline while getting another scratch?. All this happening between 35 and 45 mph or depending on the car a similar 10 mph span?

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No, in that given situation and speed 2nd gear is right there to give you maximum acceleration. No fuss, no muss.

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My automatic does it. Whenever I ask. I think my automatic knows how to drive better than 99.7% of people who drive manual transmissions.

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You must have an excellent A/T. Because at least 50% of the time my Wife's Taurus is in the WRONG gear. And even if I want to shift it manually I can't. You know why? Look at the available shift pattern of the column shifter...

P - R - OD - D - 3 - 1.

Where is 2nd gear? NOT THERE! The gear most needed to achieve good acceleration in passing situations. I can't select to manually. I have to argue with Mr Fuzzy Logic to get it. And sometimes with enough gas pedal force he grabs 1st gear instead! What a dumb design.