Manual transmission "snobs"?

[brianl703]

I remember one of the automakers had problems getting the OBD-II mandated misfire detection working properly with a manual transmission, so they didn't offer it for one year.

Misfire detection usually works by sensing the deceleration of the crankshaft as the misfiring cylinder misfires--apparently rough road caused false misfire detects on manual transmission equipped vehicles. I don't know how they resolved this problem, as they obviously did.

Of course, the way GM does misfire detection on the Ecotec engines is totally immune to that problem since it actually measures the resistance of the ion path between the sparkplug electrodes to determine if a misfire event occured.

 

[ccs v2.0]

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above I meant:
Do F1 cars even have clutch pedals anymore?

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YES they do.

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No, they don't have a clutch pedal. The clutch/neutral is engaged by pressing a button on the steering wheel or pulling a separate paddle on the back of it. The drivers only use it to get out of the garages, pit boxes or when they spin. The rest of the time, it's all electro-pneumatically controlled/actuated. They are nearly seamless (which BTW, seamless transmissions are not allowed by the rules) and shifts are now about 10 to 25 milliseconds.

 

[Auto-Union]

One feature with a manual is more control in turns. While in the midst of a turn, adding more or less gas will affect the attitude of the vehicle, either tightening the turn by lessening the gas or run it out wider/faster by getting on the gas with the tight and immediate impulse of a manual trans.

 

[Crashbox]

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As mentioned earlier but will reitterate here...

Manuals do give the driver more control in the snow. With a good driver, a LOT more control.

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One of the greatest reasons why I MUCH prefer a manual-trans vehicle. First learned how to drive with one, a '49 Chev 1/2 ton. I believe that knowing how to drive a stick shift car should be a requirement for licensure (I think Austria has such a law).

I never would have even begun to consider purchasing my '95 Civic from a former co-worker if it were an automatic. I've also been thinking about converting my '77 Chev pickup to a manual.

Funny thing I just recalled- way back in the late '70s or so the Washington State Patrol purchased a number of Ford Mustangs (?) with a high-performance package which was only available with a manual trans. Two-thirds of the WSP with these cars assigned to them had to learn what that third pedal was for...!

I LOVE STICK-SHIFT VEHICLES!

 

[brianl703]

I think manual transmission cars are less likely to be stolen or carjacked.

 

[ekrampitzjr]

Count me as a manual transmission snob. I wish the Taurus I drive now had one, but when you buy a used vehicle on a tight budget, you take what you can find. But I think the problem goes back to how ubiquitous automatics have long been in US cars, except for a few base-model compacts and some high-performance cars. The availability problem has been there since at least the 1970s, when most larger American cars ceased to offer stickshifts. Imports have been a different ball game, but even that has changed now. The latest estimate I've seen is that only one out of every seven new cars sold in the US has a stickshift.

On some US cars and light trucks sold years ago that did have a manual available, often the clutch pedal effort and long throws (or weird shift arrangement, such as "three on the tree") were enough to put off a novice driver from wanting to drive a manual. So the US automakers bear a little blame for that. But I know people who had to have first started driving in the late 1960s-early 1970s, when manuals were more common, who never learned to drive one. The reason seems to be that driving schools even then were using nothing but automatics, and to get the first driver's license required use of an approved driving school in those states.

Whether a person drives a manual or an automatic should be his/her choice. But I believe it should be required for every beginning driver to show an ability to drive a stickshift. If you can't handle the slight coordination of movement needed to shift gears while pressing a clutch pedal, should you really be considered qualified to drive under all conditions? By the way, Australia has automatic-only driver's licenses. Perhaps this could be a way to go, as having such a restricted license could be seen as a slight stigma.

 

[TallPaul]

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(or weird shift arrangement, such as "three on the tree")

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Ah yes. The good old three-on-the-tree arrangement. I had two of them. One, a '63 Chevy Biscayne, had a non-syncro first gear. When the linkage got old and worn it was an art to get it through the gears (find 'em and grind 'em).

 

[Tornado Red]

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I often drive in bumper-to-bumper traffic, so a manual is pretty much out for me. As long as I live here, I pretty much have to drive an automatic just out of convenience.

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In that kind of traffic, I've found moving my right foot from accelerator to brake, over and over again, is much more tiring than pushing in the clutch pedal. And being able to use the 1500-to-3500 rpm part of the torque band in most gears eliminates a lot of shifting.

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I guess I'm a snob. I'll die with a stick shift in my hand.

Never met an A/T that I liked. Especially modern ones with lockups and overdrive. Never in the right gear at the right time. Always hunting around. Won't downshift unless you mash it. I could go on but you get the point.

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Exactly. And driving a rental with an AT a few days every year is all the reminding that I need.

 

[HOndaGuy]

I think everyone should know how to operate a manual transmission vehicle for driving purposes. I like manual transmissions more than anyone(my civic is a 5 speed and love it to death), but I respect those who drive automatics due to personal choice.

I just think they are more fun in general and allow you to enjoy driving instead of having a computer choose when to shift.

 

[Strakes]

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I think everyone should know how to operate a manual transmission vehicle for driving purposes. I like manual transmissions more than anyone(my civic is a 5 speed and love it to death), but I respect those who drive automatics due to personal choice.

I just think they are more fun in general and allow you to enjoy driving instead of having a computer choose when to shift.

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Well said and my thoughts as well. I want to add this: I have had many "automatic transmission" snobs talk down to me like I was stupid for buying a manual transmission car.

 

[JohnBrowning]

I do not hate automatics or the people that drive them. I think for me most of it is about ease of repair and durability.I also like having more control not less over my vechile. An automatic use's programing that is full of comprimises.

The only time I really dislike automatic is when they are offered in a car that is supposed to be a sports car. A Corvette should not come with an automatic. If someone is is either too uncordinated,stupid or unwilling to learn to use a manual transmission then they should probably not be driveing a vechile that has 300,400,500+ HP!

I will say this people that drive manual transmissions are usualy more engaged while driveing. The fact that you have to select the correct gear means you have to look farther ahead at trafic and lights. It also reduces people desire to multi-task while driveing. You seldom see manual transmission drivers changeing clothes,putting on makeup,eating,talking on the cell phone or self pleasureing themselfs while going down the raod!

 

[Axe Man]

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(or weird shift arrangement, such as "three on the tree")

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Ah yes. The good old three-on-the-tree arrangement. I had two of them. One, a '63 Chevy Biscayne, had a non-syncro first gear. When the linkage got old and worn it was an art to get it through the gears (find 'em and grind 'em).

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Ditto. '67 Chevy Chevelle with 3 on the tree. At least in '67 they installed a syncro for 1st gear. But the linkage got so sloppy over the years that it would sometimes jam up and lock in neutral. You'd have to pull to the side of the road and fiddle with the greasy linkage on the steering shaft to get it lined up again. And sometimes it pinched your finger and drew blood.

It was my parents car and it seemed I was the only one who would jam it up. Rarely happen to my Father or Mother. Mr speed shift here I guess.

I tired to convince my Father to install a floor shift but he would have none if it.

 

[LouDawg]

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The only time I really dislike automatic is when they are offered in a car that is supposed to be a sports car. A Corvette should not come with an automatic. If someone is is either too uncordinated,stupid or unwilling to learn to use a manual transmission then they should probably not be driveing a vechile that has 300,400,500+ HP!

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(off topic That reminds me of once last year I was was sitting in a restaurant having dinner. I was looking out the window as I ate and saw a *brand spanking new* candy apple red (or something like that) Corvette sitting in a handicapped parking space right beside the entrance. I thought that was a little odd, but oh well.

A few minutes later, out came a positively antediluvian couple. They were SO old, they couldn't even stand up straight. The man graciously helped his wife into the passenger's side of the Corvette. It took him nearly five minutes to get her into the car and situated correctly. He then hobbled around to the driver's side, feebly got in behind the wheel, fired it up and drove off.

I just sat there with my chin laying on my chest. Hey, I love our older folks, our "seasoned" citizens. I love to spend time around them and always ask lots of questions. I learn from them. But...d-a-m-n!!

 

[Axe Man]

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The only time I really dislike automatic is when they are offered in a car that is supposed to be a sports car. A Corvette should not come with an automatic. If someone is is either too uncordinated,stupid or unwilling to learn to use a manual transmission then they should probably not be driveing a vechile that has 300,400,500+ HP!

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(off topic That reminds me of once last year I was was sitting in a restaurant having dinner. I was looking out the window as I ate and saw a *brand spanking new* candy apple red (or something like that) Corvette sitting in a handicapped parking space right beside the entrance. I thought that was a little odd, but oh well.

A few minutes later, out came a positively antediluvian couple. They were SO old, they couldn't even stand up straight. The man graciously helped his wife into the passenger's side of the Corvette. It took him nearly five minutes to get her into the car and situated correctly. He then hobbled around to the driver's side, feebly got in behind the wheel, fired it up and drove off.

I just sat there with my chin laying on my chest. Hey, I love our older folks, our "seasoned" citizens. I love to spend time around them and always ask lots of questions. I learn from them. But...d-a-m-n!!

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OK, but was the Vette stick or automatic?

 

[Axe Man]

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Manual tranny makes you part of the machine in a way that an auto tranny just doesn't do. Also more control--e.g., wife's Aerostar auto tranny is high strung and will double down shift, will upshift then right back down, and other weird things that she says never happens to her.

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My Wife's Taurus has essentially the same A/T and pulls the same stunts. And yea, doesn't happen to her.

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I think the Aerostar's problem is partly due to the low power of the 3.0 V6.

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Nope. With the 200 HP DOHC Duratec V-6 her Taurus is plenty powerful and it still acts the same way.

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Anyway, when I drive the Aerostar I like to make it shift with little actions of the foot on the pedal. You can trick it into things, but that also is where I get into problems.

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Ditto. I do the same. These A/T's have "adaptive learning" or "fuzzy logic". Mr Fuzzy Logic and Me never seem to get along. And I think part of the problem is because of my extended years driving a stick. I ANTICIPATE the up shift and instinctively let up on the gas. And I suspect that befuddles the A/T controller. I found that if I "dumb down" myself and put part of my brain to sleep we get along better. But I also discovered this tends to make me less aware of the situations around me. And I don't like it.

 

[Warlord]

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The only time I really dislike automatic is when they are offered in a car that is supposed to be a sports car. A Corvette should not come with an automatic. If someone is is either too uncordinated,stupid or unwilling to learn to use a manual transmission then they should probably not be driveing a vechile that has 300,400,500+ HP!

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I would prefer an auto for drag racing but for real racing (left and right turns) its manual all the way.

 

[1sttruck]

"I have had many "automatic transmission" snobs talk down to me like I was stupid for buying a manual transmission car."

As mentioned a few times before... at work while waiting for a meeting to start someone asked about my truck, and when it became apparent that I had a stick people couldn't believe it. In response a couple of other trucks owners said that they'd get a stick next time.

 

[TallPaul]

Axeman, My '77 F150 got so bad that it was jamming and I'd have to get greasy under the hood to release it.

Well, I guess the Aerostar's tranny is the culprit because both E4OD trannys I had, which were mated to 460 V8s in motorhomes, behaved nicely.

 

[brianl703]

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These A/T's have "adaptive learning" or "fuzzy logic". Mr Fuzzy Logic and Me never seem to get along. And I think part of the problem is because of my extended years driving a stick. I ANTICIPATE the up shift and instinctively let up on the gas. And I suspect that befuddles the A/T controller.

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I had a Taurus as a loaner and the stupid thing peeled out while I was driving it in stop and go traffic...I wanted to change lanes, so I stepped on it...it apparently couldn't make up it's mind what gear it wanted and when it finally did, the engine was going fast enough that it chirped the tires when it finally figured out what it was going to do.

I think that tranny controller in the Taurus gives far too much credence to the TPS. Either that or they need to filter the output from the TPS better, so that rapidly changing input from the TPS doesn't cause the transmission to go wild trying to figure out what gear to select. Sort of a software "dashpot" function.

 

[psudaytona]

Maybe this is a bit of an off hand type comment, but I think the preference is based alot of how you view your driving, pleasure or chore.

Mostly when I have talked to people about stick vs auto the issues of fuel economy and dependability never came up. It was the issue of "a stick is fun to drive!" or "aww a stick is such a PITA!". It also seemed divided by the people who either liked to drive or just drive because they have to. Wasn't even separated by sexes, just opinions.

Anyone who views driving as just a way to get there from here will almost always choose an auto because it requires no extra effort. My aunt, who learned to drive stick from my uncle DEMANDED that her new Miata was a manual tranny. She fits the "soccer mom" profile except for vehicles. She hates minivans with a passion and always drove sports cars. She told me its just more fun to drive over an auto.