Local Gas up to 10% Ethanol: bad for 2 cycle?

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Islandvic

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The local gas stations all have signs stating that the gasoline has up to 10% ethanol. There was a news report interviewing repair shops stating they have had a huge increase of lawn equipment coming in with problems due to the ethanol.

What can be used as fuel treatment to help combat the ethanol in the fuel.

I have a Toro mower with 190cc B&S, pressure washer with 190cc Honda, and a new Echo leaf blower.

Should I use Iso-Heet and some Lucas UCL?

Your thuoghts, thanks
 
We've had ethanol in gasoline up here for decades. It helps to deal with moisture in the fuel in cold climates. I've never experience any problems over the years with ethanol blended fuel in any engine of any type.

I'm not certain but isn't Iso-Heet just another name for isopropyl alcohol? If it is, you'd just be adding more alcohol to the fuel.
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream

If you look hard you shoud find ethanol free gas.


That might be the case in Ontario, but it's not in the Buffalo NY area. It's all E10. I thought it was a US Federally mandated thing now, but maybe it's just State at the moment.

Joel
 
Mercury Marine seems to have done quite a bit of research into ethanol and its effect on 2 cycle engines. From what I glean from the article there are 5 main issues with ethanol:
  • Corrosion of metal parts
  • Deterioration of rubber or plastic parts
  • Fuel permeation through rubber fuel lines
  • Starting and operating difficulties
  • Lean running condition that could cause engine failure
They go on to state that phase separation (water being drawn into the fuel until the saturation point is reached for the three‑component mixture of water + gasoline + ethanol) is a real problem and there is no additive to correct this issue. In a pre‑mixed oil two‑stroke application, this phase of alcohol and water will not contain any lubricant and could cause piston scuffing (this is likely what is causing the damage to the engines).

Lastly they note, two‑stroke outboards should experience little or no decrease in performance due to gasoline fuels containing up to 10‑percent ethanol when operated according to Mercury’s standard recommendations. When gasoline with ethanol is used for the first time after a fuel changeover from MTBE, the tank must be completely dry prior to introduction of gasoline with ethanol. Otherwise, phase separation could occur that could cause filter plugging or damage to the engine. If an engine is a 1990 or older model frequent inspections of all fuel‑system components are advised to identify any signs of leakage, softening, hardening, swelling, or corrosion. If any sign of leakage or deterioration is observed, replacement of the affected components is required before further operation. It would seem that water is the main problem with ethanol and 2 cycle engines.

Here is the full document - Mercury Marine Report

I hope this helps!
 
There are two places locally where I can still get non-ethanol fuel and I buy 10 gallons of it to run through my mower and atvs as well as in my 2-stroke mix.

I make the special 15 mile round trip to put it in my motorcycle as well.

My biggest complaint about ethanol in gasoline is increased consumption by whatever you run it in. My 97 F150 with the 4.6 engine and auto transmission gets 3 to 5 miles less per gallon running that junk!
 
A lot of good info in this post. E10 is becoming more common, so avoid it if you can. I just got a Husqvarna 2 stroke Back Pack Blower and the manufacturer recommends: 1) minimum 89 octane fuel with 93 preferred since ethanol will run hotter, 2) don't let the fuel/oil mix more than 60 days even with fuel stabilizer because of the phase separation noted above and 3) storage is more critical - drain the fuel tank and the carb or run dry at low rpm.
 
We have had E-85 here in Illinois for many years and I have never had a single problem with it in any 2 cycle engine, or any 4 cycle engine for that matter. At presant I have a 10 year old Echo weed wacker. Runs great.
 
"since ethanol will run hotter"

I've always been under the impression that alcohol burns cooler than gasoline. Hence the use in Formula One cars and top fuel dragsters.

We've had E10 up here for many years. Neither I, nor anyone I know has had an issue of any kind using gasoline blended with ethanol. I've got equipment that's thirty years old that has run on nothing but regular pump gas, ethanol and all. No rubber deterioration, no engine performance issues, no reliability issues.

I really don't understand what all the concern is about.
 
We've had E10 here since 96. The fears are overblown. Two of those things you mention aren't even 2 cylcles. Assuming the Echo isn't from the 70's, you will be fine. Most of the actual problems are on carbs with cork floats. I doubt that's common after ~1975.

If anything, insist on a quality 2cycle oil.... but you should be doing that anyway.
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Ethanaol is bad for two stokes.

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/14334

My area has had ethanol for about 5-6 years. Preumium is still ethanol free, and I buy it for everything I have but my autos. E10 has 3.5% less energy as well.

If you look hard you shoud find ethanol free gas.

I wouldn't quote that website as gospel. For most things you will never know the difference other than increased consumption. The worst thing about ethanol is that is goes bad quicker than regular fuel. Most people have problems in small engines because they are using gas that has been stored in a non-sealed can for several months. If you use fresh fuel you are good to go. If you have to use ethanol never use anything older than 30 days or so.
 
My brother used to work on small engines for a living and has said to avoid ethanol at all costs in 2 strokes.
 
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Originally Posted By: tig1
We have had E-85 here in Illinois for many years and I have never had a single problem with it in any 2 cycle engine, or any 4 cycle engine for that matter. At presant I have a 10 year old Echo weed wacker. Runs great.


There is not one two-stroke engine maker on the of the earth that I am aware of that recommends E85 in their engines
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: fredjacksonsan
My brother used to work on small engines for a living and has said to avoid ethanol at all costs in 2 strokes.


He is corect...

http://www.opb.org/programs/ofg/segments/view/1738


Wrong.

How many millions upon millions of small two stroke engines are run every day on regular pump gas with ethanol in it and never exhibit any problems?

Your claims are completely unfounded.
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: tig1
We have had E-85 here in Illinois for many years and I have never had a single problem with it in any 2 cycle engine, or any 4 cycle engine for that matter. At presant I have a 10 year old Echo weed wacker. Runs great.


There is not one two-stroke engine maker on the of the earth that I am aware of that recommends E85 in their engines


Would you please provide a list of OPE manufacturers that advise NOT to use gasoline with ethanol in it?
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: tig1
We have had E-85 here in Illinois for many years and I have never had a single problem with it in any 2 cycle engine, or any 4 cycle engine for that matter. At presant I have a 10 year old Echo weed wacker. Runs great.


There is not one two-stroke engine maker on the of the earth that I am aware of that recommends E85 in their engines


Would you please provide a list of OPE manufacturers that advise NOT to use gasoline with ethanol in it?


He was talking E85 not E10. Show me one that recommends E85 for a two stroke!

The engine builders that do recommend fuel up to 10% are also just "talking their book" They have no real choice. Can you imagine what would happen to their sales if they said not to use oxygenated fuels? I have six snowmobiles, and my dealer who is also a friend says to stay far away from E10, and that is good enough for me
 
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The ethanol in the fuel is an issue for some, regardless of engine type.

As for 2 strokes, ethanol itself does not cause unusual engine wear. I am not seeing problems with engine internals. However, the rubber parts are another issue.

This applies to 4 strokes just as much, BTW.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
We have had E-85 here in Illinois for many years and I have never had a single problem with it in any 2 cycle engine, or any 4 cycle engine for that matter. At presant I have a 10 year old Echo weed wacker. Runs great.


Sorry guys, E85 was a typo. I meant E10.
 
My wife just gave me an early x-mas present...

Echo Leaf Blower!!

The literature specifically states DO NOT run E-85 fuel. It does not mention E-10.

This past summer I bought an Echo Trimmer, but do not recall what the manual said about E-85, but probably not good for it either.
 
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