2 Cycle Oil Questions

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May 12, 2021
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I recently acquired an ECHO SRM-225. The guy who gave it to me also handed me a bottle of powercare 40:1 mix. Looking online my trimmer takes 50:1. Not like the extra oil would hurt but whatever.

The manual states "A two-stroke engine oil meeting ISO-L-EGD (ISO/CD 13738) and J.A.S.O. FD Standards
must be used. Echo brand premium Power Blend X™ Universal 2-Stroke Oil meets these standards. Engine
problems due to inadequate lubrication caused by failure to use an ISO-L-EGD (ISO/CD 13738) and
J.A.S.O. FD certified oil, such as Echo premium Power Blend X™, will void the two-stroke engine warranty."

I have a bottle of semi synthetic lucas 2 stroke oil" that states "Meets ISO GD and JASO FC & FD" Exceeds API TC. I use it for my 2 stroke Toro CCR2450 snowblower.

Is ISO-L-EGD the same as ISO GD?

Will I damage my trimmer by using this oil?

If someone can please "dumb it down" for me that would be great.

I see so much contradicting information online about 2 cycle oil that it's making my head spin!

I also read online if you use a fully synthetic oil it's good for all mixing ratios up to 50:1? True?

How crucial is meeting oil standards?

I apologize for the long post, just trying to have a better understanding on this complicated subject.
 
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You're overthinking this. Use the same Lucas oil that you use in the Toro snowblower, mixed at the proper ratio for the trimmer, and all will be fine.
 
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To answer your questions, in this situation the ISO-GD would be the same as ISO-L-EGD rating. The mix ratio isn't quite as critical as it's made out to appear but for peace of mind you could mix all of your equipment at 40:1 to ensure you're getting adequate oiling to the rotating pieces. On the same note, you could mix all of your equipment at 50:1 and not have any issues.

The only tidbit of information to be cognizant of with your lawn equipment is that nearly all of the pieces of equipment will tell you to use oil rated for air cooled equipment. Note that there is a difference between air cooled, hand held equipment and water cooled boat motors. Nearly all modern OPE (outdoor power equipment) manufacturers state to NOT USE TC-W3 oil. In your situation, the Lucas oil that claims to meet JASO FD will be perfect for your trimmer.
 

donjuan4690

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To answer your questions, in this situation the ISO-GD would be the same as ISO-L-EGD rating. The mix ratio isn't quite as critical as it's made out to appear but for peace of mind you could mix all of your equipment at 40:1 to ensure you're getting adequate oiling to the rotating pieces. On the same note, you could mix all of your equipment at 50:1 and not have any issues.

The only tidbit of information to be cognizant of with your lawn equipment is that nearly all of the pieces of equipment will tell you to use oil rated for air cooled equipment. Note that there is a difference between air cooled, hand held equipment and water cooled boat motors. Nearly all modern OPE (outdoor power equipment) manufacturers state to NOT USE TC-W3 oil. In your situation, the Lucas oil that claims to meet JASO FD will be perfect for your trimmer.
Understandable. On the toro website under specifications for my snowblower it says

Engine: Engine Oil Type
Toro 2 cycle / NMMA-TCW3

Isn't that what you said SHOULDN'T be used in OPE?
 
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Understandable. On the toro website under specifications for my snowblower it says

Engine: Engine Oil Type
Toro 2 cycle / NMMA-TCW3

Isn't that what you said SHOULDN'T be used in OPE?
Typically you don't want to use that in OPE because TCW3 is designed for engines that are run at cooler temperatures water cooled normally or in your case snow cooled.

JASO FD is for air cooled engines running at higher temperatures or your normal stuff.


The issue is running the FD stuff at low temperatures often leads to excessive deposits in the engine as it is low ash not ashless like tcw-3.
 

donjuan4690

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Typically you don't want to use that in OPE because TCW3 is designed for engines that are run at cooler temperatures water cooled normally or in your case snow cooled.

JASO FD is for air cooled engines running at higher temperatures or your normal stuff.


The issue is running the FD stuff at low temperatures often leads to excessive deposits in the engine as it is low ash not ashless like tcw-3.
So should I run Lucas 2 cycle land & sea in my snowblower which is TCW3?
 
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So should I run Lucas 2 cycle land & sea in my snowblower which is TCW3?
Yes if your snowblower specs a TCW3 then Lucas land and sea is the correct product.

Your echo specs EGD and JASO FD so the semi synth from Lucas should work. As those specs are basically identical except that iso-l-egd has an additional cleanliness requirement.
 
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Understandable. On the toro website under specifications for my snowblower it says

Engine: Engine Oil Type
Toro 2 cycle / NMMA-TCW3

Isn't that what you said SHOULDN'T be used in OPE?
In your original post you were inquiring about a Echo string trimmer. Echo does NOT state to use NMMA TC-W3. In the case of your Toro 2-cycle snow blower then yes, you should use NMMA TC-W3.

I also have a Lawnboy 2-cycle push mower that specifies TC-W3 oil mixed at 32:1. After a season of burning JASO-FD low-ash oil in the Lawnboy I can remove the cylinder head and there will be small deposits of ash on the piston top and cylinder head. The design of the Lawnboy is such that it actually benefits from using an ashless oil. The design is for low RPM (3400) and low compression (5.8 PSI according to the service manual) so the stress and heat level is very low.

I guess I should have stated that you should use what the engine manufacturer specifies.
 

donjuan4690

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In your original post you were inquiring about a Echo string trimmer. Echo does NOT state to use NMMA TC-W3. In the case of your Toro 2-cycle snow blower then yes, you should use NMMA TC-W3.

I also have a Lawnboy 2-cycle push mower that specifies TC-W3 oil mixed at 32:1. After a season of burning JASO-FD low-ash oil in the Lawnboy I can remove the cylinder head and there will be small deposits of ash on the piston top and cylinder head. The design of the Lawnboy is such that it actually benefits from using an ashless oil. The design is for low RPM (3400) and low compression (5.8 PSI according to the service manual) so the stress and heat level is very low.

I guess I should have stated that you should use what the engine manufacturer specifies.
Thank you for the info. I'm not seeing any smaller bottles of TC-W3 oil. Makes sense though, it's mostly used for marine use where they will be mixing a lot more than 1 gallon.
 
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For years, I have only ever used Castrol Super Outboard Oil in ALL my 2-strokes, available in a convenient 500mL bottle.
CAS.jpg
 
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From https://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Specifications_for_two_stroke_oil

Specifications for two stroke oil are as follows.

  • NMMA TC-W3 – two cycle water-cooled, third generation. TC-W3 obsoletes TC-W & TC-WII. Oils with this spec do not use metal based additives and are ashless. This is an outboard-specific spec -- most mopeds will not use this kind of oil.
  • API TC – only API spec established for two cycle engines. It regulates lubricity, detergency, ash content and pre-ignition. Oils with this spec are typically using metal-based, ash-producing additives.
  • JASO FA – original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking (obsolete)
  • JASO FB – increased lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FA.
  • JASO FC – lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB, however far higher detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FB.
  • JASO FD – same as FC with far higher detergency requirement.
  • ISO-L-EGB – same tests and requirements as JASO FB.
  • ISO-L-EGC – same tests and slightly higher detergency requirements (piston varnish) as JASO FC.
  • ISO-L-EGD – same tests and requirements as JASO FD.

The bottom line is that any FC/EGC oil or later will provide adequate lubrication when mixed at the proper ratios.

Also of note, very lean oil ratios, like 100 to 1 do result in rapid engine wear. Under most conditions, 32 to 1 provides all the wear protection possible, with the exception of Kart racing engines and a few other very highly stressed engines. Kart engines may use 20 to 1, or even 16 to 1.

I use 32 to 1, EGD in everything from my race bikes to my Echo trimmers.
 
Last edited:
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From https://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Specifications_for_two_stroke_oil

Specifications for two stroke oil are as follows.

  • NMMA TC-W3 – two cycle water-cooled, third generation. TC-W3 obsoletes TC-W & TC-WII. Oils with this spec do not use metal based additives and are ashless. This is an outboard-specific spec -- most mopeds will not use this kind of oil.
  • API TC – only API spec established for two cycle engines. It regulates lubricity, detergency, ash content and pre-ignition. Oils with this spec are typically using metal-based, ash-producing additives.
  • JASO FA – original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking (obsolete)
  • JASO FB – increased lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FA.
  • JASO FC – lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB, however far higher detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FB.
  • JASO FD – same as FC with far higher detergency requirement.
  • ISO-L-EGB – same tests and requirements as JASO FB.
  • ISO-L-EGC – same tests and slightly higher detergency requirements (piston varnish) as JASO FC.
  • ISO-L-EGD – same tests and requirements as JASO FD.

The bottom line is that any FC/EGC oil or later will provide adequate lubrication when mixed at the proper ratios.

Also of note, very lean oil ratios, like 100 to 1 do result in rapid engine wear. Under most conditions, 32 to 1 provides all the wear protection possible, with the exception of Kart racing engines and a few other very highly stressed engines. Kart engines may use 20 to 1, or even 16 to 1.

I use 32 to 1, EGD in everything from my race bikes to my Echo trimmers.
Just curious what specific oil you are currently using.
 
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I'm currently using Klotz in my OPE. Use it in snowmobiles and a PWC which are way bigger and more expensive stressed motors and haven't blow one up yet surely not worried about OPE at 50:1
 
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