Is there such a place?

[msmoke00]

First, I want to point out I know the rules of the forum and I am not trying to make this a political post. I simply want to get the opinions of the knowledgeable people of the BITOG community. I will give the back story and then my question:

I am 23 years old, and currently a resident of the USA. However, I am open to changing my location. I have a bachelors degree in animal sciences from a prominent American agricultural school and have experience with food animals (cattle, hogs, etc). I also have some skills in diesel and gasoline engine repair. I have worked on everything from semi tractors and agricultural tractors down to small gas motors. I can stick and MIG weld also. With that in mind, this is my list of criteria in no particular order.

I am looking for a country that has:

1. Non socialized healthcare: If they do have social healthcare, the system must be efficient and if I opt out I do not want to pay a penalty.
2. Good job opportunities: I am not limited to my current skills and would be willing to do something new. I also want the possibility to open my own business without many burdensome regulations.
3. Good moral compass: A country that has fairly low crime, but more importantly a sense of right and wrong. Also, a sense of working hard for rewards and not looking for hand outs.
4. Quality school system: Hoping in the future my children will have a better opportunity than I.
5. Tolerable gun laws: I enjoy owning a shotgun, rifle, and handgun and would like to keep them without too many struggles.
6. Freedom to worship. I want to be able to worship how I choose.
7. Minimal social programs/Minimal national debt: A country that doesn't have people looking for a free lunch at every turn. Likewise, does not owe others enough to break them.
8. Free market economy: Free trade and only enough regulations to keep things honest.

I am looking for the best place now, and for 40 years down the road as well as for my kids. So my question is: Am I looking at this too hard and am in a good place now, or is there a better place out there?

 

[dave123]

In before the lock

 

[simple_gifts]

There are reasons millions are still trying to make it to the US.

 

[abycat]

Never gonna happen. Sounds like a fairy tale land.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: abycat
Never gonna happen. Sounds like a fairy tale land.

Yeah, seriously. Nothing comes to mind. Gonna have to make compromises somewhere.

 

[MarkStock]

I think you should pick a few countries and try living there for a while. No need to consider any move permanent.

You're only 23, and there's a lot out there that you clearly don't understand.

 

[01rangerxl]

You're SOL with that list, sorry.

Your best bet is to research different cities/states/regions in the US and find the one that is the best fit for you. It will not be a perfect fit.

Don't get me wrong, I have thought about the possibilities of living in a different country, but at the end of the day most countries would require significant changes in lifestyle and are no utopia. If the opportunity presents itself (a job), consider moving, but I wouldn't move to another country just to find something better than the US. There are a lot of things wrong with our country, but frankly there are a lot of things wrong with the whole world. You can't escape it.

 

[msmoke00]

Originally Posted By: MarkStock
I think you should pick a few countries and try living there for a while. No need to consider any move permanent.

You're only 23, and there's a lot out there that you clearly don't understand.


I've got a few countries in mind, but wanted to get an unbiased opinion from everyone first. I know I have time, and I also understand that no place is going to be perfect. Just analyzing what the best place for the future is going to be. I'm sure everyone has pondered whether where they are at is best at some point.

 

[whip]

Monaco.

 

[otis24]

Try South Dakota or North Dakota. Not a country, but next best option. As far as socialized medicine, I understand there is no provision for the enforcement part of the penalty for not having health care. My wife works from home, and we don't currently have a health policy on her. Gonna take my chances with the penalty and see what happens.

 

[itguy08]

Canada may be the closest to what you are looking for.

Other than that, pick a state that is close to your values and move there.

 

[msmoke00]

Originally Posted By: otis24
Try South Dakota or North Dakota. Not a country, but next best option. As far as socialized medicine, I understand there is no provision for the enforcement part of the penalty for not having health care. My wife works from home, and we don't currently have a health policy on her. Gonna take my chances with the penalty and see what happens.


Should have added in the original post it could be within my current country. I have also been in Greece and Italy, so I have seen some different views and the US isn't out of the picture. It was my understanding if you opt out of the healthcare in this country, there is a "tax" for doing so.

 

[Nick R]

No such place exists.
Now that that has been said... this thread needs moar spiderman.

 

[gfh77665]

The closest place to your description is rural Texas, IMO. At least for now. Texas will suffer due to illegal immigration, and eventually go the way of socialized / bankrupt California, but for now, you sound like a Texan.

Stay out of the cities, and welfare dependent east TX. The panhandle, west TX, or the Cen-Tex is the best bets for you.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: msmoke00
1. Non socialized healthcare: If they do have social healthcare, the system must be efficient and if I opt out I do not want to pay a penalty.
2. Good job opportunities: I am not limited to my current skills and would be willing to do something new. I also want the possibility to open my own business without many burdensome regulations.
3. Good moral compass: A country that has fairly low crime, but more importantly a sense of right and wrong. Also, a sense of working hard for rewards and not looking for hand outs.
4. Quality school system: Hoping in the future my children will have a better opportunity than I.
5. Tolerable gun laws: I enjoy owning a shotgun, rifle, and handgun and would like to keep them without too many struggles.
6. Freedom to worship. I want to be able to worship how I choose.
7. Minimal social programs/Minimal national debt: A country that doesn't have people looking for a free lunch at every turn. Likewise, does not owe others enough to break them.
8. Free market economy: Free trade and only enough regulations to keep things honest.


USA. If we actually learn how to get the right people in the right places, and learn the .gov is not our mommy/daddy. Not political. Just a fact.

 

[MarkStock]

Originally Posted By: msmoke00
Originally Posted By: MarkStock
I think you should pick a few countries and try living there for a while. No need to consider any move permanent.

You're only 23, and there's a lot out there that you clearly don't understand.


I've got a few countries in mind, but wanted to get an unbiased opinion from everyone first. I know I have time, and I also understand that no place is going to be perfect. Just analyzing what the best place for the future is going to be. I'm sure everyone has pondered whether where they are at is best at some point.



Fair enough but I think you'd have to change you presumptions on several things:


1. Non socialized healthcare: If they do have social healthcare, the system must be efficient and if I opt out I do not want to pay a penalty.

Most other developed countries have universal healthcare. Systems vary from completely centrally provided (eg UK), to government funded but privately provided (Australia, Switzerland). But the central concept is that everyone gets healthcare.

On average, healthcare in the US costs twice as much as these other countries with worse healthcare outcomes. When healthcare is run as a business, then it's better that people are sick. (Same concept as cars. Mechanics prefer that cars are unreliable. Sensible owners buy reliable cars, look after them, and believe prevention is better than major repair).

In the UK, and other countries, you are free to buy your own private insurance. You are automatically covered by the government so there is no concept of opt in or opt out and therefore no concept of a penalty.

So yes, all developed countries outside of the US have efficient healthcare and won't fine you if you decide not to use it.

2. Good job opportunities: I am not limited to my current skills and would be willing to do something new. I also want the possibility to open my own business without many burdensome regulations.

Low unemployment for skilled people. Germany, although the skill level is incredibly high due to a very structured approach to learning skills, so it depends what you want to do. Nordic European countries, Singapore are also very high skilled, very high wage countries.

3. Good moral compass: A country that has fairly low crime, but more importantly a sense of right and wrong. Also, a sense of working hard for rewards and not looking for hand outs.

Many countries come to mind, but the ones answered in Qu2 also have these features. Singapore has very low political corruption, partly because they pay their ministers such a high salary that they wouldn't have the incentive to. In the UK, there was a scandal about members of parliament over claiming on their expenses. If you consider the amounts ranged from thousands to ten's of thousands of dollars, it is nothing compared to what politician's in the US get involved in. And in the UK, these folks really got a whipping about this.

4. Quality school system: Hoping in the future my children will have a better opportunity than I.

Many countries are ahead of the US in schooling. China is now considered, even in rural areas to have the best schools in the world. Japan and other Asian countries have great results as do Nordic European countries.

5. Tolerable gun laws: I enjoy owning a shotgun, rifle, and handgun and would like to keep them without too many struggles.

Pass on this one!

6. Freedom to worship. I want to be able to worship how I choose.

All developed democratic countries have freedom of worship, usually strengthened by a more accepted seperation of church and state. Scientology though is not considered a religion in a couple of European countries.

7. Minimal social programs/Minimal national debt: A country that doesn't have people looking for a free lunch at every turn. Likewise, does not owe others enough to break them.

Many countries have generous social programs but don't have people looking for a free lunch. It's more about what the society has chosen to value. One of the biggest benefits in countries like Germany is 1 year plus paid maternity leave. They, people and companies, see this as important for the social fabric, for the development of children as future productive citizens. Nordic countries go better with generous paternal leave. Many countries have low national debt, such as Germany and Nordic European countries. Many in Asia do not have a problem either. Japan does have a problem because they have sluggish growth for 2 decades having failed to get to grips with their inefficient banking system.

8. Free market economy: Free trade and only enough regulations to keep things honest.

Free market economy: I have done business internationally and the US confuses the [censored] out of me compared to other developed countries. They are all free market. The US is actually quite confusing. If you don't get to grips with the tax system in the US, you can get into serious trouble. Really, for the average person, tax is nowhere near as complex in most other countries. In many countries the average person does not need to do a return.

Free trade: Generally not a feature around the world the same way as it is for the US.

 

[sciphi]

Yes, there is. Steuben County, NY. Lots of empty forests and fields, cheap cost of living, and less than 100k people in an area larger than Rhode Island. You can have as much or as little government as is possible in upstate NY by where you choose to live. Live in one of the two cities and have lots of local/county government. Live far out in the middle of the woods, and nobody else except the deer and occasional hunter will be around to bug you. Also, farming is a big part of the local economy, but Corning Inc. and Dresser-Rand in Corning anchor the manufacturing base there.

 

[TooManyWheels]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
The closest place to your description is rural Texas, IMO. At least for now. Texas will suffer due to illegal immigration, and eventually go the way of socialized / bankrupt California, but for now, you sound like a Texan.



Not if he wants quality schools. Of couse his definition of quality may be in accord the same line of thinking with the other things he asked for. And since he isn't much on social services, he may be willing to pay for private school.

 

[expat]

My thoughts are, you have too many preconceived opinions (as to what you want) on your check list.
When I fist came to Canada in the 70's, I thought I knew what I wanted from my future country........The truth is, other issues suggested problems/benifits I haddn't even considered, I was still in a U.K. Mindset.
Sorry I can't offer suggestions.
But.....Perhaps it's a little like dealing with the devil. Be careful what you wish for, you might get it!

Or, to put it another way, Just when I thought I knew life's answers, they changed all the questions.

 

[msmoke00]

MarkStock/expat: Thank you for the information. I was aware of many of those considerations. I simply put the bullet points up to give a guide to follow. I think you were assuming that I was presuming things are absolute, which I know they never are. I think my list order has confused a few of you. Healthcare is actually at the very bottom of my priorities for example. Can I ask what is wrong with presuming a safe, enjoyable place would be a good location to raise a family?

sciphi: I will look into that area. I'm not wanting to totally assimilate into being a hermit, so being able to choose would be a bonus. Aren't the taxes in the state of New York very high or is that only in NYC?

Pablo: The mentality of the US is really what got me on this whole quest in the first place. The majority of the population has a slightly different view of what is perfect than my own I feel. I see it only getting worse in the future.