Is there such a place?

[Propflux01]

I was kinda thinking Montana. Low crime because no one lives there, guns because everyone that lives there has one, Job opportunities because no one else is around to take the jobs. Free trade because your only able to get to your neighbors for trade before you run outta gas, Quality schools because there aren't many kids in a class anyhow, more one-on-one. No socialized medical because everyone there hates the government, heck what else could ya ask for?!!!

 

[expat]

Also, remember if you want to renounce you U.S. citizenship ( and not pay taxes) you may be on a long waiting list.

http://www.globalpolicyjournal.com/blog/06/06/2012/taxpatriates-or-taxpatriots

 

[hattaresguy]

Go travel a bit, lots of nice places out their.

Problem is once your outside the 1st world you give up a lot of rights and legal protection, that we take for granted. For example China is nice, but they can take your assets and your SOL if they want.

Germany is nice, as is Norway and Switzerland, maybe you will like those?

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: msmoke00

Pablo: The mentality of the US is really what got me on this whole quest in the first place. The majority of the population has a slightly different view of what is perfect than my own I feel. I see it only getting worse in the future.


I see what you're saying here, but is there really a majority view? I'm not so sure. A lot of people feel like you do, myself included. We live in an incredibly diverse country, and a side effect of that is constantly conflicting perspectives and world views.

A lot of people look at things in black and white. You're on that side or the other...the truth is, most people fall somewhere in the middle. Where you live, your family, your religion, etc. will all play a role in your perspective, and that perspective is unique to you. When you're stuck in traffic, or waiting in a line, or just dealing with lots of people, it's easy to group them together and say "I'm not like them." They're probably all thinking the same thing. This website itself is a testament to how diverse our perspectives are. Look at some of the discussions members have had on this board and it is clear that BITOG runs the gamut of opinions and beliefs.

I completely understand feeling frustrated with the state of the country, though probably for some different reasons. You have to remember though that there is no place on earth where everyone will feel the same way you do. Conflict is the one constant throughout human history. You have to compromise somewhere because society won't let you have everything you want.

 

[antiqueshell]

The US is headed downwards, and one of the main reasons is the increasing numbers of third world immigrants flooding our shores. My opinion is that in about 30 years the US will be a developing nation maybe something a bit better than Brazil, but not much.

I would try looking at Norway, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Austria, Switzerland, Germany, Iceland and even Luxembourg. Since the basic culture is western and familiar but with a lot of the positives you want.

I know that well known CNBC, Fox, and WSJ fame, financial analyst Jim Rodgers moved his entire family to Singapore. Things are very good there but the culture is very different.

 

[Darren270]

Having lived in several different countries I can tell you that the other posters are pretty much spot on with the exception of maybe Canada.

The problem lies not just in what you listed (a country that has even half of the things you listed simply doesn't exist) but also with the fact that you're an American. 99% of the time, unless its a job that requires or relies on foreigners due to a lack of skilled workers in their own country, they are not going to hire you precisely because you're a foreigner.

I know it seems odd considering how we seem to hold immigrants and immigration in such high regard. Unfortunately, most of the rest of the world doesn't share that sentiment. Odd isn't?

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

I don't see how this was started without political intentions...in before the lock

Oh, and there could be such a place. Just hop on a FedEx jet, get stranded on a deserted island, and since you're the only person there, you can be king and do all of the stuff on your list.

 

[MarkStock]

Originally Posted By: msmoke00
MarkStock/expat: Thank you for the information. I was aware of many of those considerations. I simply put the bullet points up to give a guide to follow. I think you were assuming that I was presuming things are absolute, which I know they never are. I think my list order has confused a few of you. Healthcare is actually at the very bottom of my priorities for example.

Can I ask what is wrong with presuming a safe, enjoyable place would be a good location to raise a family?


Nothing. In fact, that is the same main driver for my choice of where to live.

Your list was 8 points without a weighting, so that's how I answered.

My answer on healthcare (which was infinitely shorter than it could have been!), was because I have direct experience with the topic from both a non American and an American point of view.

Going to another country teaches you a lot. I learnt a lot when I moved to America. Some things are better, some things are worse. It's always a balance, but at the end of the day, people matter, and who you feel comfortable with is important.

One problem with living in America is that it is in some ways very homogeneous, so any difference you perceive in living from one place to another, from east coast to west coast, from city to rural, from Hawaii to Alaska, will still have a somewhat simple American dimension running through it. It's something that is both convenient (it makes taking vacations in diverse places really easy), while at the same time being something that would make one insular if you never got a passport.

 

[MarkStock]

[
Originally Posted By: msmoke00

Pablo: The mentality of the US is really what got me on this whole quest in the first place. The majority of the population has a slightly different view of what is perfect than my own I feel. I see it only getting worse in the future.


But how is that view in reality affecting you?

You suddenly feel part of a minority (48% I presume) where a majority of the population has a "slightly" different view to you, and you want to leave the country?

Sounds a bit childish to me!

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: MarkStock
[
Originally Posted By: msmoke00

Pablo: The mentality of the US is really what got me on this whole quest in the first place. The majority of the population has a slightly different view of what is perfect than my own I feel. I see it only getting worse in the future.


But how is that view in reality affecting you?

You suddenly feel part of a minority (48% I presume) where a majority of the population has a "slightly" different view to you, and you want to leave the country?

Sounds a bit childish to me!


If this is what he was implying, I agree, it's childish. I do think this country is in some form of decline or at least stagnation, but it's not due to one person or one group of people. There's a whole lot of people who can take the blame, though they won't.

 

[AVB]

Originally Posted By: MarkStock
[
Originally Posted By: msmoke00

Pablo: The mentality of the US is really what got me on this whole quest in the first place. The majority of the population has a slightly different view of what is perfect than my own I feel. I see it only getting worse in the future.


But how is that view in reality affecting you?

You suddenly feel part of a minority (48% I presume) where a majority of the population has a "slightly" different view to you, and you want to leave the country?

Sounds a bit childish to me!


I think it is more than a "slightly" different view. My problem is most places I think I would want to live are too cold for me.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: AVB

I think it is more than a "slightly" different view. My problem is most places I think I would want to live are too cold for me.


That's always the problem...the tradeoffs.

Washington and Colorado just became more appealing to me, but not enough for me to pack up and move there.

I love the Southeast, but it is a cultural cluster****. I deal with it because that's what my family has done for the better part of 300 years. Ironically a couple years ago I swore off AL because my relatives here were struggling...now I'm living right in the middle of the freaking state. That's life...got to make compromises and do the best you can.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: msmoke00
I am looking for the best place now, and for 40 years down the road as well as for my kids. So my question is: Am I looking at this too hard and am in a good place now, or is there a better place out there?


Before the lock, too, and I'll stay within the rules.

Finding liberal gun rights similar to that the majority of the states enjoy is going to be a chore. Monaco isn't bad, but unless you're independently wealthy, forget it. Israel and South Africa aren't what they used to be in that regard, either. Just about everywhere else is going to be a problem. Canada looks like Texas compared to the rest of the world.

Avoiding socialized health care isn't going to be easy, either, or avoiding a lot of social programs, unless you choose to move to a Third World country. The States is a great country. Others have suggested places like Texas or North Dakota. If I were to move to the States, those would probably be my top two choices.

 

[GumbyJarvis]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
No such place exists.
Now that that has been said... this thread needs moar spiderman.

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
The closest place to your description is rural Texas, IMO. At least for now. Texas will suffer due to illegal immigration, and eventually go the way of socialized / bankrupt California, but for now, you sound like a Texan.



Not if he wants quality schools. Of couse his definition of quality may be in accord the same line of thinking with the other things he asked for. And since he isn't much on social services, he may be willing to pay for private school.


Are you kidding? There are over 1200 schools in TX, and many, many fine schools in rural TX. In fact, thats where most are here. The smaller rural schools don't have gangs like the city schools, and have great community involvement and outstanding academics. Just look up the best schools at http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfreport/account/2011/index.html and search for "Recognized" or "Exemplary" rated schools. Many to be found in rural TX.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Are you kidding? There are over 1200 schools in TX,


LOL, in 2011, there were 9,435 schools in Australia for about the same population as texas.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
The closest place to your description is rural Texas, IMO. At least for now. Texas will suffer due to illegal immigration, and eventually go the way of socialized / bankrupt California, but for now, you sound like a Texan.



Not if he wants quality schools. Of couse his definition of quality may be in accord the same line of thinking with the other things he asked for. And since he isn't much on social services, he may be willing to pay for private school.


Are you kidding? There are over 1200 schools in TX, and many, many fine schools in rural TX. In fact, thats where most are here. The smaller rural schools don't have gangs like the city schools, and have great community involvement and outstanding academics. Just look up the best schools at http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/perfreport/account/2011/index.html and search for "Recognized" or "Exemplary" rated schools. Many to be found in rural TX.

Well, the Texas Education Agency (TM) might be a bit biased, but you can probably find good school systems in any state. That mostly comes down to the county.

Still, in many places in the South private education is a major institution. I'm not sure how AL public education is these days, but I know several years ago anyone who could afford to put their kid in private school did.

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Are you kidding? There are over 1200 schools in TX,


LOL, in 2011, there were 9,435 schools in Australia for about the same population as texas.


Not trying to prove TX has "more" or anything, just trying to illustrate there are ample choices available. BTW, "Texas" is capitalized.

 

[GumbyJarvis]

Dont come to Florida, they only teach you how to pass an end of year exam (FCAT)

Stinks, I graduated in 2010, 3 years of math, 3 years of a "D" grade at 59.5 which is a D in this state.

It all trickles down, I was never taught the basics in elementary school and middle school.

I still cant do long division on paper.

Kinda weird, though when I enlisted I had the 2nd highest ASVAB score at MEPS that day, kid had one point more than me and he was USAF OCS qualifying.

I learned more math in the real world working at a gas station for 2 years than i did in 13 years of school. Sad.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: msmoke00


I am looking for a country that has:

1. Non socialized healthcare: If they do have social healthcare, the system must be efficient and if I opt out I do not want to pay a penalty.


If you're looking to work for yourself or as a contractor, your best bet is to marry a teacher/ government worker. You bring in the big bucks, she brings the health insurance/ benefits. IMO a government would be a less harsh mistress day in and day out.

As a 20-something I understand you're healthy now but as a member of society I must ask you to pay something "fair" into the kitty. This is enormously subjective, of course.
Quote:

2. Good job opportunities: I am not limited to my current skills and would be willing to do something new. I also want the possibility to open my own business without many burdensome regulations.

You can't beat the USA, IMO. If you want to be a mechanic most states you don't need a license to work as one, and in my state you don't need one to hang a shingle and start your own shop. Go elsewhere and you need years of trade school and apprenticeship... and if it's not for you you wasted a chunk of your life.
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3. Good moral compass: A country that has fairly low crime, but more importantly a sense of right and wrong. Also, a sense of working hard for rewards and not looking for hand outs.

As said above, Singapore is good for this. If you're aligned with the govt's world view, great. If not, too bad.
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4. Quality school system: Hoping in the future my children will have a better opportunity than I.
There are lots of places with better schools if you go by published metrics. US schools produce non-critical thinking drones. Our private schools make leaders.
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5. Tolerable gun laws: I enjoy owning a shotgun, rifle, and handgun and would like to keep them without too many struggles.

Can't do much better than here
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6. Freedom to worship. I want to be able to worship how I choose.


Get this in most 1st world countries
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7. Minimal social programs/Minimal national debt: A country that doesn't have people looking for a free lunch at every turn. Likewise, does not owe others enough to break them.

Everyone owes everyone. You just want to look for somewhere better-than-average, as investment will flock in this direction and keep their currency up.
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8. Free market economy: Free trade and only enough regulations to keep things honest.

Don't forget corruption.
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I am looking for the best place now, and for 40 years down the road as well as for my kids. So my question is: Am I looking at this too hard and am in a good place now, or is there a better place out there?


Now's a good time b/c you got educated but have years of employment to offer before a host country owes you a retirement. You haven't squandered much on social security etc you may not use. Have at it!