Is TGMO 0W-20 SN made in Heaven? Part II: high-moly GTL

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They have made TGMO great again. It's been six years and one month since I reviewed (link) the original formulation (link) of TGMO 0W-20 SN, made in the USA by ExxonMobil. I was very impressed by this oil at the time. Oils have evolved a lot since then and so has our knowledge. Yesterday I found out that PQIA has tested the TGMO (link) and I was excited because I could finally calculate its base-oil-quality index (BOQI). When I visited the page, I was in total shock -- the formulation has entirely changed for the better! (1) The moly! It's 787 ppm now, readily kicking any oil in the rear. (2) The hybrid detergent system: Ca/Mg ratio a little over 2 (1470 ppm/674 ppm). This is the modern detergent system for two important reasons: (a) It prevents LSPI. (b) Mg doesn't neutralize all types of acids while Ca does; so, you get the best of both worlds -- Mg helps retain TBN high as it lasts longer and Ca ensures everything is neutralized, therefore resulting in both long-lasting and complete protection against all acids. (3) Boron (197 ppm) is still there! (4) Unbeaten viscosity index VI = 227! Yes, we all have reservations toward the viscosity-index improver (VII), but a high VI is always a good thing. (5) Last but not least, the base-oil-quality index BOQI = 66, beating all oils including Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus, except Mobil 1, Genuine Nissan Motor Oil (GNMO) by ExxonMobil, and Amsoil Signature Series! This BOQI clearly points to a high percentage of GTL base stocks. Of course, there is no way to rule out some GTL/PAO blend as well but there is certainly not much Group III in the blend. This is supported by the fact that the recently introduced Genuine Nissan Motor Oil (GNMO) 0W-20 and TGMO 0W-16 also made by ExxonMobil are known to be 75% and 100% GTL, respectively (GNMO MSDS and ExxonMobil MSDS). Note that we don't know the exact base-stock balance but nevertheless BOQI = 66 indicates a very high-quality base oil. Also note that the VII depresses the BOQI somewhat and as a result TGMO's BOQI is probably somewhat depressed by the high VII content.
Code:
Rank	BOQI	DV-35	NOACK	Date purchased	Oil

1	84.3	4,110	10.10	2014/02/16	Mobil1 Synthetic API SN, ILSAC GF-5, SAE 0W-20 motor oil
2	83.3	3,928	10.70	2015/12/28	Mobil 1 Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 dexos1
3	81.9	4,316	9.90	2018/01/25	Genuine Nissan Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 Motor Oil
4	80.4	5,122	8.50	Amsoil PDS	AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil 0W-20 (ASM)
5	78.2	4,182	10.70	2017/03/06	Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 dexos1
6	66.1	4,102	12.90	2018/01/24	Genuine Toyota Synthetic SAE 0W-20
7	59.0	5,929	10.00	2018/03/12	SuperTech High Mileage Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 Motor Oil
8	57.8	5,884	10.30	2017/03/06	Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic with PurePlus™ Technology SAE 0W-20 dexos1
9	57.1	6,068	10.10	2015/12/28	Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 dexos1
10	54.9	5,958	10.70	2014/02/06	Quaker State Synthetic API SN, ILSAC GF-5, SAE 0W-20 motor oil
11	54.0	5,448	11.90	2015/04/01	Beck/Arnley Premium OE Fully Synthetic SAE 0W-20
12	54.0	5,949	10.90	2018/03/12	Royal Purple Synthetic Oil SAE 0W-20 High Performance Motor Oil
13	53.2	5,721	11.50	2015/12/28	Valvoline Full Synthetic SYNPower SAE 0W-20
14	53.0	5,006	13.20	2015/12/28	SuperS SuperSyn Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20
15	51.9	5,819	11.60	2017/03/06	Valvoline Full Synthetic SYNPower SAE 0W-20 dexos1
16	51.7	5,642	12.00	2018/01/24	ACDelco Synthetic SAE 0W-20
17	51.2	5,342	12.80	2017/12/09	Honda Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 Motor Oil
18	49.8	5,537	12.70	2015/12/28	Castrol Edge Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 dexos1
19	49.5	5,996	11.80	2017/03/07	O'Reilly SAE 0W-20 Full Synthetic dexos1 Motor Oil
20	48.6	5,451	13.20	2014/08/14	Castrol Edge Synthetic Motor Oil API SN, ILSAC GF-5, SAE 0W-20 motor oil
21	47.6	5,658	13.00	2015/07/27	STARFIRE SAE 0W-20 Full Synthetic dexos1
22	47.2	5,657	13.10	2014/02/07	Pronto Supreme API SN, ILSAC GF-5, SAE 0W-20 motor oil
23	47.2	4,981	14.90	2014/08/25	Starfire Motor Oil API SN, ILSAC GF-5, SAE 0W-20 motor oil
24	46.2	5,786	13.10	2015/12/28	ProLine Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 dexos1
25	45.6	5,113	15.00	2014/12/01	i-Sint XL 4AM Synthetic SAE 0W-20, API SN, ILSAC GF-5
26	44.9	5,647	13.80	2017/12/09	i-Sint XL 4AM Synthetic Engine Oil SAE 0W-20
27	43.5	6,138	13.10	2017/03/06	STP SYN Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 dexos1
28	43.1	5,723	14.20	2016/01/25	AMSOIL Synthetic OE SAE 0W-20 Motor Oil
29	41.8	5,814	14.40	2014/02/07	MAG1 API SN, ILSAC GF-5, SAE 0W-20 motor oil
30	39.7	6,163	14.30	2014/08/11	Federated Motor Oil API SN, ILSAC GF-5, SAE 0W-20 motor oil
Certainly TGMO is getting ready for the ILSAC GF-6/API SP era. This oil will probably be relabeled when these specs become official in late 2019 or early 2020. I was eager to put the new TGMO 0W-20 SN in my engine but then I was thrilled to realize that I have already been running this high-moly GTL reformulation of TGMO for over 3,000 miles and over a year without knowing it! As for the driving impressions, I don't remember my engine running as smoothly ever, and at full throttle the engine doesn't seem to strain at all. Also, I've been wondering why this oil hasn't deteriorated after many repeated short trips for over a year -- it still feels like new oil -- and now, I know it's not the old TGMO but a substantially higher-quality formulation with high moly content and a GTL base oil. The UOA will be very interesting. Will it live to the hype? Stay tuned! Finally, I know you are asking -- how do I identify the new formulation and how do I get it and for how much? The new formulation says "Sintético" on the front and has the ExxonMobil codes P3068F and P3069B on the front and back, respectively. As for the price and availability, you could get it very cheap if you can successfully negotiate with the Toyota dealer. Here is the current MSRP and offer from a Toyota dealer: TradeMotion Carson Toyota
 
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Gokhan, Off the top of your head, which 5Wx30 oil (M1 EP or PPPP, etc.) has a good amount of moly (787 ppm or more)?
 

Gokhan

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Originally Posted By: OilUzer
Gokhan, Off the top of your head, which 5Wx30 oil (M1 EP or PPPP, etc.) has a good amount of moly (787 ppm or more)?
I believe none. High moly (> 600 ppm) is a Japanese-OEM thing to increase MPG for 0W-20 and 0W-16. PYB used to have around 250 ppm. Here is the PQIA PCMO summary list. You can sort by clicking on the headers: http://pqiamerica.com/PCMO_Sample_Summary_12_15_2016.html
 
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Thanks, Just checked bunch of 5Wx30's and 0Wx20's and they all had less than 100 ppm moly! Don't want to derail the topic, however why is it (moly) not more widely used by others if it improves the mpg? Does moly have other benefits besides mpg at least for Toyota's engine design?
 

Gokhan

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Originally Posted By: aleneros
It's USD 6.69 per bottle in our country (TW). Just curious, what is the price you are getting?
There is a link at the bottom of the original post with the price information. There is also a 9.5% sales tax on top of the price. It comes to about the price you're paying if not a little more. The Toyota dealers here tend to charge greatly varying prices, many above MSRP.
 
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Having such a high dose of moly doesn't automatically mean it's better. It just means they're still using the old MoS2 form of moly whereas all other modern oils have switched to the new Tri Nuclear form of moly which only requires a ~80ppm dose to be effective. Why would Toyota still use the old MoS2 form of moly? Japanese companies are resistant to change, their oil engineers are probably at retirement age and don't trust many new types of anti wear additive especially at such low doses. Mazda also has an OEM 0w20 oil that has high moly content, but UOA reports show nothing exceptional. Cost is another reason, Tri nuclear moly is more expensive and high doses of old MoS2 can coat the catalytic converter which ruins it (not a big issue unless your engine is burning oil).
 
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Wasn't there something about high doses of moly making it hard to pass a TEOST test? My old brain is rattling away but no more details are forthcoming from it...
 
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Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Having such a high dose of moly doesn't automatically mean it's better. It just means they're still using the old MoS2 form of moly whereas all other modern oils have switched to the new Tri Nuclear form of moly which only requires a ~80ppm dose to be effective. Why would Toyota still use the old MoS2 form of moly? Japanese companies are resistant to change, their oil engineers are probably at retirement age and don't trust many new types of anti wear additive especially at such low doses. Mazda also has an OEM 0w20 oil that has high moly content, but UOA reports show nothing exceptional. Cost is another reason, Tri nuclear moly is more expensive and high doses of old MoS2 can coat the catalytic converter which ruins it (not a big issue unless your engine is burning oil).
+1 Trying to prove one oil is superior to the next is next to impossible. Pointless, I would say. Many great oils and how to prove the difference between one or the other? I go by seat of my pants feeling simply because I like what "feels best" as irrelevant as that is but just because I know whatever I choose will do an excellent job.
 
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Sooo, my 12 quarts of TGMO 0w20 read P8196F and P8197B on the front and back respectively. Also the copyright date on the bottom front reads 2017. Any thoughts?
 
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Originally Posted By: dippschtick
Sooo, my 12 quarts of TGMO 0w20 read P8196F and P8197B on the front and back respectively. Also the copyright date on the bottom front reads 2017. Any thoughts?
Sounds like they changed the formula again? Too bad PQIA won't test this oil again for another few years.
 
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I thought I had read high doses of the older type moly were bad for LSPI? I don't remember now. I would never run the stuff but it sounds like a great oil for a little mixing or top off. I would disagree that high VI is always a good thing, actually not good for timing chains, but I do like oils loaded with goodies and this one certainly delivers.
 
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Impressive Gokhan! Doesn't Schaeffer's have a high Moly #? Best = Subjective. I like the table.
 

Gokhan

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Originally Posted By: dippschtick
Sooo, my 12 quarts of TGMO 0w20 read P8196F and P8197B on the front and back respectively. Also the copyright date on the bottom front reads 2017. Any thoughts?
Interesting. Since the codes are different, I'm pretty sure that the formulation has changed again. Perhaps you can do a VOA through WearCheck. They also check for VI. I found two TGMO MSDS's dating back to 2016 and 2018. They both claimed practically 100% Group III, especially the 2018 one, and the 2018 MSDS showed VI = 180 -- definitely a dramatically different formulation. Perhaps TGMO no longer uses GTL and the VII content has been significantly reduced as well. So much with the TGMO made great again. I guess it didn't last very long. shrug
 

Gokhan

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Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Wasn't there something about high doses of moly making it hard to pass a TEOST test? My old brain is rattling away but no more details are forthcoming from it...
Yes, 0W-20 and 0W-16 are exempt from TEOST 33C because the Japanese OEM's like to have high moly in these viscosity grades to further boost the fuel economy and high moly makes it difficult to pass TEOST 33C. Therefore, at the request of Japanese OEM's, ILSAC has exempted 0W-20 and 0W-16 from TEOST 33C in GF-5 as well as GF-6 so that the Japanese OEM's (such as TGMO) can load these with high moly (> 600 ppm).
 
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