If GM Files for Chapter 11...

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: drivewaytech
Once GM is government owned and operated, it will do just fine. Regulations and tariffs will be imposed to make the automotive industry a "more fair playing field". Ford will pay a price for turning down the buy out.... I mean bail out.



Maybe...much of it depends on the comsumer...

 

[65cuda]

GM was its own worst enemy. They failed to address any changes and chose to rely on SUV's and PU's. If they had run the business right they wouldn't have been at the gov door begging to be bailed out from its own failure. That the CEO was fired is something that the board should have done long before. I thought the idea was that if you failed you were fired. In his case he quit,before getting fired, and walked away with 20 mil.
Chrysler was doing good until the Daimler buyout and then it went downhill from there. As much as I like Mopars I also believe that with them being owned by a investment firm that they should be liquidated instead of bailed out. Somebody will see a golden opportunity to cherry pick some models of cars between Chrysler and GM.

 

[mstrjon32]

Originally Posted By: FXjohn
wouldn't it be smarter to complain about the disapearing middle class and stagnant wages, rather than worrying about just making more than someone who didn't go to college?


People don't think that way in this country any more, it seems that everybody just wants to see the rich get richer and poor get poorer. Lucky for them, we're headed that way full speed ahead.

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: mstrjon32
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
wouldn't it be smarter to complain about the disapearing middle class and stagnant wages, rather than worrying about just making more than someone who didn't go to college?


People don't think that way in this country any more, it seems that everybody just wants to see the rich get richer and poor get poorer. Lucky for them, we're headed that way full speed ahead.


+1

 

[Eddie]

I think GM will only survive by a Chapter 11. They are black-mailing the tax payers with the threat of bankruptcy and job losses. Very bad business decisions for the past 25+ years. The decision makers have bent over for ridiculous union demands in order to give themselves very fat bonuses. They have put themselves where they are today and they cry for more money. Duh!!!!!

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: 65cuda
GM was its own worst enemy. They failed to address any changes and chose to rely on SUV's and PU's. If they had run the business right they wouldn't have been at the gov door begging to be bailed out from its own failure.


I hear this a lot and frankly, IMO, it is really unfair to GM on a few fronts...

1 - Yes, GM rellied on SUV & Truck sales until the gas cisis hit. Why? Because that is what people WANTED! Why would they make vehicles that wouldn't sell? People didn't want little econo death boxes until gas hit $4. They wanted Silverados/Sierra's, Escalades, Tahoe's,and Suburban's.

2 - Keep in mind gas was around $1.50-$1.60, an the economy was strong wiith very little unemployment, when hurricane Katrina hit. That was the start of our economy's downfall and GM's. Gas jumped to around $2.80-$3.00 within days. That was August of 2005. Gas had a small pull back that winter but then it just started going up and up and up from there without any real sound fundementals supporting the heights to which it rose. It was mainly about greed and supply manipulation far more so than demand vs actual supply.

As a result of out of control energy costs following Katrina and the hurricanes that followed the economy has tanked and other trouble areas were made worse and revealed. Ultimately though energy costs did this to us/GM. No one who is remotely honest will say anyone could have forseen how high gas went and how fast it did so before Katrian hit.

How was GM, or any car mfg geared towards SUV's and Trucks, supposed to completely retool at a cost of BILLIONS upon BILLIONS and come up with/design all these new cars to fit the new public's wants, and get them to market overnight? Just an unrealistic expectation. People stopped buying the vehicles they had been almost overnight and that is what has hurt GM.

GM does have some very economical cars and they have even bumped MPG on trucks but it takes time to do so. They couldn't do it in a month. They have a much more fuel friendly line up now and some darned good vehicles to offer the public. The problem now is the public are not buying ANY new cars. Not GM, not Chrysler, not Ford, and not Honda or Toyota either.

It is far too simplistic to just say GM did this to themselves. They were makiing what people wanted and were caught when the amrket changed overnight. Car mfg's just can not make changes as fast as that.

 

[FXjohn]

put part of the blame on health care. other countries have universal health care and in this country, a young workforce.
GM or any other company can't compete with the last growing industry in this country, the health care system, it grows outrageously and get exponentially more expensive every year.
We don't make anything anymore. If you aren't changing paper on wall street, you're picking everyone's pocket with outrageous medical bills. and then everyone whines about GM, and wall street gets a pass. we're our own worst enemy. wake up morons.

 

[hone eagle]

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/co...+temp_top+story

Seems some bond holders want BK.Man when things go inside out it just never stops.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: drivewaytech
Once GM is government owned and operated, it will do just fine. Regulations and tariffs will be imposed to make the automotive industry a "more fair playing field". Ford will pay a price for turning down the buy out.... I mean bail out.


Can't and won't happen. The backlash from China and the automotive tier suppliers would collapse the entire industry. If China dumps the amount of our debt they own in treasury notes the US dollar would decline against other global currencies by about 35%. So any parts made in China by the tier suppliers (huge amounts) would increase by about the same plus tarrifs. This would add about $8-10,000 to the cost of a US built car. China would then shut down all of GM imports and GM would lose about 500,000 vehicle sales. The Europeans would throw a huge fit as well and at the same time acquire many more US corporations as the Euro would be worth about $1.75. The Japanese would go on a US corporation shopping spree as well.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: FXjohn
put part of the blame on health care. other countries have universal health care and in this country, a young workforce.
GM or any other company can't compete with the last growing industry in this country, the health care system, it grows outrageously and get exponentially more expensive every year.
We don't make anything anymore. If you aren't changing paper on wall street, you're picking everyone's pocket with outrageous medical bills. and then everyone whines about GM, and wall street gets a pass. we're our own worst enemy. wake up morons.


GM can compete if they get the right management team. They have too many models on the street and have been competeing with themselves for too long. The UAW can make a deal that will work but the days of sitting home and getting paid are over. GM can triple their export sales if they get rid of the "old guard" management guys and let the younger generation of engineers take the lead. They have a wealth of talent buried in the ranks. Healthcare makes little difference. They have more great ideas sitting on the shelf than you would ever believe. They need a 35 year old CEO who can work with a 35 year old UAW President and get then new GM going. This can be done.

 

[FXjohn]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: drivewaytech
Once GM is government owned and operated, it will do just fine. Regulations and tariffs will be imposed to make the automotive industry a "more fair playing field". Ford will pay a price for turning down the buy out.... I mean bail out.


Can't and won't happen. The backlash from China and the automotive tier suppliers would collapse the entire industry. If China dumps the amount of our debt they own in treasury notes the US dollar would decline against other global currencies by about 35%. So any parts made in China by the tier suppliers (huge amounts) would increase by about the same plus tarrifs. This would add about $8-10,000 to the cost of a US built car. China would then shut down all of GM imports and GM would lose about 500,000 vehicle sales. The Europeans would throw a huge fit as well and at the same time acquire many more US corporations as the Euro would be worth about $1.75. The Japanese would go on a US corporation shopping spree as well.


who cares about china? Korea and Japan seem to think they are entitled to a living by exporting only and not importing.
Of course their consumers and govt are smart enough to know how important keeping their industry viable is and picking the US cretins' pockets by continuing to sell us a product that isn't night and day better like their small cars used to be. they also sell a lot of gas guzzling SUVs and small cars with V6's that are guzzlers as well. hungry? eat yer import. The asians are laughing all the way to the bank at our foolishness.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: drivewaytech
Once GM is government owned and operated, it will do just fine. Regulations and tariffs will be imposed to make the automotive industry a "more fair playing field". Ford will pay a price for turning down the buy out.... I mean bail out.


Think about the US Postal Service when you make a statement like that....it's laughable...

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: drivewaytech
Once GM is government owned and operated, it will do just fine. Regulations and tariffs will be imposed to make the automotive industry a "more fair playing field". Ford will pay a price for turning down the buy out.... I mean bail out.


Can't and won't happen. The backlash from China and the automotive tier suppliers would collapse the entire industry. If China dumps the amount of our debt they own in treasury notes the US dollar would decline against other global currencies by about 35%. So any parts made in China by the tier suppliers (huge amounts) would increase by about the same plus tarrifs. This would add about $8-10,000 to the cost of a US built car. China would then shut down all of GM imports and GM would lose about 500,000 vehicle sales. The Europeans would throw a huge fit as well and at the same time acquire many more US corporations as the Euro would be worth about $1.75. The Japanese would go on a US corporation shopping spree as well.


who cares about china? Korea and Japan seem to think they are entitled to a living by exporting only and not importing.
Of course their consumers and govt are smart enough to know how important keeping their industry viable is and picking the US cretins' pockets by continuing to sell us a product that isn't night and day better like their small cars used to be. they also sell a lot of gas guzzling SUVs and small cars with V6's that are guzzlers as well. hungry? eat yer import. The asians are laughing all the way to the bank at our foolishness.


True ...but it is too late...the barn door is open and the horse is long gone. Signing NAFTA with Mexico was our downfall.

 

[Tornado Red]

The news about GM was almost all negative this week -- the only good news was that Fiat might do a deal for Opel instead of with Chrysler LLC.

Shares of Ford climbed sharply.

 

[FXjohn]

I thought all the news has been bad for all automakers lately, except subaru.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: FXjohn
I thought all the news has been bad for all automakers lately, except subaru.


No, Ford is showing a trend where they have been steadily cutting losses and vastly improving vehicle quality. I believe they will surpass Toyota in quality ratings within 3 years.

 

[Tornado Red]

Will we start seeing GM vehicles being sold at massive discounts?

Yes, even bigger discounts. Not good for any automaker, having GM dumping their inventory. So bad news for everyone else, until the inventory is depleted.

Originally Posted By: drivewaytech
Once GM is government owned and operated, it will do just fine. Regulations and tariffs will be imposed to make the automotive industry a "more fair playing field". Ford will pay a price for turning down the buy out.... I mean bail out.


Ford will come out like a shiny star. Without GM and Chrysler dumping their cars cheaply, other automakers will be able to make a profit... will be able to reinvest in plant and equipment, will be able to develop new models, etc.

As long as GM lives, and especially if GM and Chrysler still live, then everyone loses.

 

[FXjohn]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
I thought all the news has been bad for all automakers lately, except subaru.


No, Ford is showing a trend where they have been steadily cutting losses and vastly improving vehicle quality. I believe they will surpass Toyota in quality ratings within 3 years.


GM was also there in that initial quality study. i believe ford lost 1.4 billion last quarter.most sales are down 40-50 percent across the board except subaru

 

[FXjohn]

Originally Posted By: Tornado Red


Ford will come out like a shiny star. Without GM and Chrysler dumping their cars cheaply, other automakers will be able to make a profit... will be able to reinvest in plant and equipment, will be able to develop new models, etc.

As long as GM lives, and especially if GM and Chrysler still live, then everyone loses.


nonsense, the quality between Ford and GM or Chrysler isn't much different. I want them all to survive.

 

[Cutehumor]

1 - Yes, GM rellied on SUV & Truck sales until the gas cisis hit. Why? Because that is what people WANTED! Why would they make vehicles that wouldn't sell? People didn't want little econo death boxes until gas hit $4. They wanted Silverados/Sierra's, Escalades, Tahoe's,and Suburban's.

/quote]

little econo death boxes???

I thought the increase of SUV/Truck sales because of the high increase of OBESE people in this country because they can't fit in these "econo death boxes"