Seeing how TSOA is not willing to post a UOA of Castrol Syntec 5W50 and then one of M1 15W50 for comparsion I am doing it. I drained the Castrol 10W30 Syntc Blend out with about 200 miles on it. I then added 4.5 quarts of Castrol Syntec 5W50. I put it in the Buick Lasaber. The 3.8 is preety easy on oil so we will see what we see.
I am trying Castrol 5W50
- Thread starter JohnBrowning
- Start date
- Status
How long are you going to run it for? 5-6K etc.
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2002
- Messages
- 4,624
I applaud you for trying this oil. I am going to buy 6 quarts of Quaker States 5W-50 and run it in my recently acquired Passat VR6. I routinely see oil temperatures go to 220ºF (according to the MAF computer which senses at the filter) when I step my daily commute pace up to triple digits so maybe this extreme viscosity spread will shear out of grade in short order.
Hopefully I can afford a few analysis kits just for curiosities sake.
Hopefully I can afford a few analysis kits just for curiosities sake.
I don't know John. a 50 wt (especially in the 3.8 ) seems insanely high to me. Refresh my memory-why are you using such a heavy oil??
It's not a bad oil at all, just a little different than we're used to. I ran it in a '93 2.5 Acclaim for many, many miles.
Patman
Staff member
I agree with Al, a 50wt oil simply isn't necessary in a GM 3.8 engine. These engines already get very long lives out of 30wt oils. The word bulletproof can't be used on too many engines, but in the case of these 3.8s, I truly believe this word applies.
The UOAs will be interesting though, so I do applaud you for being a guinea pig here John! In fact I would love to see more people do controlled testing using many different viscosities in the same engine. If we could get someone to try out 5w20, then 5w30, then 5w40, then 5w50, all in the same engine under identical weather and driving conditions, that would be cool!
Is this 3.8 a 229 or a 231?
John, why are you changing the oil after 200mi?? That's the insane part....in either case...how many miles on the LeSabre? Is there any oil consumption?
I agree that the 3.8 may be easy on oil (low revving push-rod), but I'd love to see a UOA comparison between the Syntec 5-50, M-1 15-50 and a 5-30. At least you'll have a quieter running engine...
I agree that the 3.8 may be easy on oil (low revving push-rod), but I'd love to see a UOA comparison between the Syntec 5-50, M-1 15-50 and a 5-30. At least you'll have a quieter running engine...
Well, I figured I could either bicker with TSOA and get no place or I could just buy the oil and test it myself! I figured the first option is confrontational and self destructive. The second is less confrontational and very constructive! I want to be clear that I am quite sure that the Syntec 5W50 will protect the engine just fine. I just do not think it is the magic exlir that TSOA's mechanic claims it is. I surely do not think it is going to protect any better then M1 15W50 and who knows it might even hold it's own!
I would feel better about it being in the car if I knew what type of base stocks were in it and in what concentrations! Motorbike is looking into this right know so hopefully we will know what is in it!
I had to replace the upper intake manifold, and I replaced the lower intake manifold gaskets. In the course of this coolant was leakedinto the engine even after draining the block. I do not know if the leak was internal or external only prior to removal of the manifolds. I used the short drain as a flush to get any contaimnets out of the block.
Spec. 1997 Buick Lasber 3.8 V6
40 PSI Oil Pressure at 1dle (10W30 HOT)
60 PSI @ 1800 RPMs (10W30 HOT)
65 PSI at 3000 RPMS (10W30 HOT)
Roughly 120,000 miles bought used at something like 109,000 miles from Grandma!
Does not burn a drop of oil ever.
Has had two Auto-RX treatments on the engine and one on the transmission.
OCI to be determined wife drives infrequently but almost always more then 20 miles at 55MPH.
I figure the important thing is the 5W part. If it has decent cold crank and pumpability I will fine.
I am trying it to prove or disprove that it protects better then M115W50! As much I do not like driveing the buick(uncomfortable seats for big guy)I will probably have to drive to and from work some to put some miles on it!
The engine runs as strong as a new motor! The oil pressure is only down 5 PSI from published spec. I am of course useing just the cluster presure guage. It simply is not worth my time to hook a manual guage to see what the actual pressure is.
[ February 09, 2004, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]
I would feel better about it being in the car if I knew what type of base stocks were in it and in what concentrations! Motorbike is looking into this right know so hopefully we will know what is in it!
I had to replace the upper intake manifold, and I replaced the lower intake manifold gaskets. In the course of this coolant was leakedinto the engine even after draining the block. I do not know if the leak was internal or external only prior to removal of the manifolds. I used the short drain as a flush to get any contaimnets out of the block.
Spec. 1997 Buick Lasber 3.8 V6
40 PSI Oil Pressure at 1dle (10W30 HOT)
60 PSI @ 1800 RPMs (10W30 HOT)
65 PSI at 3000 RPMS (10W30 HOT)
Roughly 120,000 miles bought used at something like 109,000 miles from Grandma!
Does not burn a drop of oil ever.
Has had two Auto-RX treatments on the engine and one on the transmission.
OCI to be determined wife drives infrequently but almost always more then 20 miles at 55MPH.
I figure the important thing is the 5W part. If it has decent cold crank and pumpability I will fine.
I am trying it to prove or disprove that it protects better then M115W50! As much I do not like driveing the buick(uncomfortable seats for big guy)I will probably have to drive to and from work some to put some miles on it!
The engine runs as strong as a new motor! The oil pressure is only down 5 PSI from published spec. I am of course useing just the cluster presure guage. It simply is not worth my time to hook a manual guage to see what the actual pressure is.
[ February 09, 2004, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]
TSOA, THe thickest a group III oil can be is 30Wt. Once you go past 30Wt you need to either blend in other base stocks like G II, I, IV or V. THe alternative is to load it up with polymer viscosity improvers. To get a spread like 5W50 I am going to guess that it is mostly G III and then some PAO is added and some group I. 5W50 usualy act a lot like 0W40's in terms of HTHS retension and general viscosity retion in general! I do not like oils to lose their viscosity and then thicken back up.
I do not think that it is going to cause any damage at all. I am preety sure I could run Walmart Tech2000 10W30 in it and it would be fine!
I do not think that it is going to cause any damage at all. I am preety sure I could run Walmart Tech2000 10W30 in it and it would be fine!
JB - 50W in an American engine. Don't you know it will blow up?
Why arent people saying "50 wt isnt good for todays tight tolerance engines"? Because they cant. The argument doent make sense to me considering which cars demand these higher viscos.
What is the real reason europoean car companies like the thicker oils? I can understand it in Germany, with the autobahn, but why here too?
What is the real reason europoean car companies like the thicker oils? I can understand it in Germany, with the autobahn, but why here too?
pscholte you got me. A bit of humour never hurts. I don't think they have Opals in Alice Springs but further south at Andamooka and Coober Pedy definitely. I went to school at Woomera when it was a busy rocket range and not far from either. Never got to either though unfortunately. Lightning Ridge in NSW is the main place for the awesome black opals or at least it was. Americans and Japanese buy most of it.
John, I think you are doing the guys at BitOG a favour, testing oil for everyone's benefit. Don't do it for my benefit though. If you are trying to see if your engine will blow-up on Syntec 50, my guess is that it won't. Unless you are doing your testing on a tracked custom turbo Porsche with 26lbs of boost, I don't see what your correlation with a Buick' UOA will indicate.
Two identically prepared Porsches one with M1 and one with Syntec would be a lot a of fun, and the data might be more relavent. Wait, multiple cars with different oil... that's exactly what happens at my mechanic's shop ANYWAY. Some guys here choose to disregard his conclusions, mostly because of their biases against mechanics, not my problem. The rest of the guys here are here to learn the lessons that 20 or 30 years of European car service have to offer. I am willing to entertain suggestions of what oil my mechanic should carry in drums, to fit all the cars he might service in the course of a year, I think he could use a Hi-Mi oil for many of his customer cars. I think the fact he stocks a few drums of a really good oil like Syntec 5w-50 indicates a level of experience beyond the average repair shop. (I could go on about how well-respected his shop is and the competitive level his engineering and mechanical services are on) Anyway, good luck with the Syntec, I don't expect much in the way of hard data, just your subjective opinion.
BTW- can anyone find the HT/HS values (and EP levels) are for Syntec 5w-50 and M1 15w-50.
Also- why is it so hard to believe that Syntec might actually be better in this application? Mobil shure has you guys brainwashed.
BTW- can anyone find the HT/HS values (and EP levels) are for Syntec 5w-50 and M1 15w-50.
Also- why is it so hard to believe that Syntec might actually be better in this application? Mobil shure has you guys brainwashed.
Patman
Staff member
The HTHS numbers are as follows:
Syntec 5w50 is 4.5
Mobil 1 15w50 is 5.11
What a coincidence...once the decision was made to close Woomera, one of the guys who worked for me (I was the commander of a logistics support squadron for Air Force Space Command) helped to plan the disposition of the mission equipment. Sorry our paths never crossed!
Thanks Patman. I did not think Syntec was higher than M1, but had to find out the numbers. I wish I had a strait-forward explanation for what my mechanic and many others report. As many things in the oil industry are, it is mysterious and subjective. Like I said, the blown engine was laying at my feet, red-jug M1 was visible in the hatch, and an expert in these cars was standing right there saying "Mobil 1 sucks". What would you conclude?
I'd conclude that Syntec 5W-50 was in the sump, and the owner was about to change it with red-cap M1 but didn't get around to it yet
You can't really conclude anything from one engine... or five.
You can't really conclude anything from one engine... or five.
- Status
Similar threads
