I am trying Castrol 5W50

[Dr. T]

The only explanation (if any) is that these engines were using A1-rated 5-30 or 10-30 and NOT the A3-rated 15-50. That's why the European rating exists...to differentiate 30 weights that qualify as do 40 and 50 weights against wear during extreme conditions and those that do not (ie. most U.S. 30 weights and conventional oils).

Engines that require A3 should not be using an A1 oil. Period. That said, either M-1 15-50 or Syntec 5-50 will work fine...with the shortcoming of a 15w during winter (-20C) and shortcoming of a 5-50 large-spread viscosity leading to shear and hence, a lower HT/HS over a 15-50.

 

[Losiho]

This question is not strictly to do with Castrol 5w50, but please bear with me. I see that a lot of people say that oils such as 0w40, 5w40, and 5w50 have too big a viscosity spread and therefore are not as shear stable as other oils. What I want to know is why an oil such as Castrol's Formula R / RS Synthetic 10w60, with its 50 point spread, is not mentioned in the same group ? Are different base stocks the reason ?

 

[sprintman]

Close Nurrungar base I guess you mean or was that something else? I lived there from 67 to 70 when i joined RAAF. Visited home until 76 when I left RAAF to work for NASA at Orroral Valley Tracking Station (STADAN 21) now gone unfortunately as has Honeysuckle Creek leaving only Tidbinbilla as the remaing NSAS station here in Canberra.

 

[sprintman]

Maybe Ted or kule could comment on 5W50 re 10W60 and the diferences and how 25W70 fits in?

 

[Motorbike]

quote:

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Originally posted by sprintman:
Maybe Ted or kule could comment on 5W50 re 10W60 and the diferences and how 25W70 fits in?

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Believe it or not the 5-50 and 10-60 are simalar in basestock composition wih PAO , Diester , Two group III's and ne of them is the Slack Wax used in the Helix Ultra, now the 25W70 gear oil is kinda light is it not ?

Now on the Porsche , Mechanic , boost and Mobil oil , ...... no comment

[ February 10, 2004, 06:35 AM: Message edited by: Motorbike ]

 

[haley10]

Obviously, neither GM or Castrol would approve of the choice.

I'd like to see some runs with the Syntec 10W-30 (recommended) to see how it stacks up.

There is no really useful info here on the 10W-30 with this engine. It feels like good stuff.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Moribundman, I am interested in shearing out of grade, nitration, oxidation, insoulbles, flash point. I am preety sure that wear metal differences between this and 15W50 will be minimal and not staticaly significant.

I purposely went with the Buick 3.8 because it is easy on oil! If I had put this in either of the two Toyotas people would have blamed the engines for shearing it down and the high oxidation,nitration..................

I do have a car that I drive at the limit of the fuel cut off but I will not put a Castrol product in it!

P.S. I know my test is not perfect but at least I am not a hypocrite and I am whileing to put up or shut up! I amnot calling anyone a hypocrite either! I am not looking to start anything at this point! Just trying to do some testing!

 

[moribundman]

So, John, in the best case, the 5W-50 will come out looking pretty good, but that'll be because you put it in an engine that's easy on the oil, right?

 

[TSoA]

I have a six-pack of SJ Superflo 5w-50 here, full PAO basestock. I can't wait to use it in...umm, my Mother-in-Law's car.

(V6 Audi)

 

[F1Crazy]

Team PTG, BMW's main US racing team has Castrol as one of their sponsors so they have access to any oil that Castrol makes but they choose to use Syntec 5W-50 in their M3s. The cars have production based 3.2 liter I-6 engines (infamous S54s) that officially produce 420HP @ 8200 rpm and 300 lb-ft. @ 6000 rpm. The engines in their production form call for TWS Motorsport 10W-60.
Interesting...

 

[moribundman]

Quite frankly, I fail to see how John Browning's "test" will prove or disprove anything. He's not using this oil in the same engine, or driving the car in he same manner, as those people who had their engines "blow up" in the "red zone." To me, this test means nothing regardinng oil-related engine failure. I'd love to see someone disprove TSOA's claim that M1 blows engines that are driven at their limits, but this test won't prove anything pertinent in this regard.

I predict the 5W-50 will do just fine in that GM engine. It did fine in my 2.8 Audi V6 with 10k miles intervals, and I've never babied any car.

 

[TSoA]

Whoa, maybe the experts here should contact them to warn about "spread" and VII sludge and, most urgently, how very important racing oil is.

I guess Team PTG retains an ASE-certified tech for that.
Audi did win Manufacturers Championship in Speed GT though.

I have to ask Randy which oil they use next time I speak to him.

Probally a Castrol product.

[ February 11, 2004, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: TSoA ]

 

[JohnBrowning]

TSOA, I do not work as a Tech. any more! I get paid to find quality issues with OEM parts mostly powertrains but all areas of the cars systems and subsystems that fail under warranty are up for grabs. I get to tear into them and find out why they failed. I then report this to the engineers. Together we look at the production facilitys and supplier facilitys, date codes material, do some stress testing etc... to locate what is wrong and fix it! SOmetime it is a mechanical issue, sometimes it is a production issue, sometimes it is owner neglect.

We generate the some of the TSB's sent out to dealers! I freely admit I am not a tribologist or certified lubrication tech.!

Moribundman, You can twist it however you like that is your perogative! I will also be testing the M1 15W50 in the same engine so it will be a far test! I will not make excuses for the Castrol if it does good! Like wise I will not make any excuses for M1 15W50 if it does poorly. I could not see stacking the deck against it in vechiles known to shear the heck out of oil! I figured that the Buick 3.8 represents most domestic engine enviroments and is gentell on oil. If it does shear out badly in an engine as gentel as a buick 3.8 grocery getter then the oil definately has problems. I am not trying to set this oil up to fail!

If we had more people that were not AFRAID to run some M1 15W50 or that used Syntec 5W50 and reported their UOA we would have a bigger database to look at! Their is nothing stopping anyone on this forum from putting up or shutting up (excludeing ambient temps.)!

I am running Redline and then Delvac 1 for simalar reasons. I want to see how these oils protect and wich one protects better? Their is simply not enough data on this site for these oil! This site has mostly 5W30 and 10W30 with Amsoil, Mobil 1 and Schafers! I do not run 5W30 and only run 10W30 in the winter usualy!

I think I have given Syntec ever possability to suceed!

 

[moribundman]

John, don't get too excited, we are talking about oil here. I'm not twisting anything, but I won't accept this test as valid. I'm saying the result will not be very meanigful or even representative of Syntec 5W-50's performance. It might, however, be indicative, if an extremely good or poor result is achieved.
Believe me, had I found this site a couple years ago, I would have had an UOA done on the Syntec 5W-50, which is the oil I used for most of the life of my car. And I was satisfied with it, doing 10 k miles OCs and driving the car hard.
I will, however, do an UOA on the M1 5W-40 that I just put in, though, again, I don't think a single UOA will tell much, unless a really good, or really bad result is achieved.

Peace out!

 

[JohnBrowning]

MOri, I am not excited at all. I was trying to type quickly I was getting ready to lie down for a nap! My reply was cutting into my ciesta(sp)!

I do have strong opions but I am fair to a fualt. I would not waste my time or money to generate bad data! I will often do things just on principal alone! Even if it is not in my best interest at times. I am up from my nap!

Well you are right that it will not tell us a lot about the oil. You can get an idea though if you see enough UOA of the same oil even from different vechiles. You can begine to see patterns of like deffincey. Remember I am not looking to much at wear numbers unless their is a drastic difference. I am just interested in SUS, Flash, Oxida, Nitr, insolubles and maybe TBN ! I do not think that the difference in wear metals is going to be that great because of how the car is driven. It is pampered.

It would be interesting to see how Syntec does in a Harley Engine. Their was someone here from AZ that has a HD and posted some UOA. I might ask him if he would try this in his HD. That would make for an interesting UOA!

[ February 11, 2004, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]

 

[radiometer]

John Browning, Very good on the tests you're doing. I'm looking to seeing the results. Please answer one thing for me. Do you believe it is completely safe to run Xw-40 and Xw-50 oils in most engines? I would appreciate your response on this.

 

[sprintman]

Mind if I chime in here? find me an engine that can't run XW40 or XW50?

 

[JohnBrowning]

Yes, I have run 20W50,15W40 and 15W50 in Toyota I4,V6,V8 Ford I4, GM V6,V8, Isuzu I3, Mitsu I4 engines. I think that ambient temp is the key to selecting oil. krolm in my book Florida, Georgia, Alabama,Texas,Nevada,Arizona, AUstraila = automatic 15W40, 15W50, 5W40 recomendation! krolhm I am useing Redline 5W40 in -18F temps in a tight ULEV engine. I am useing 5W50 in a loose old school push rod 3.8 V6.

[ February 12, 2004, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]

 

[GSV]

Like I said, the blown engine was laying at my feet, red-jug M1 was visible in the hatch, and an expert in these cars was standing right there saying "Mobil 1 sucks". What would you conclude?

The engine had a defect? The driver missed a shift? Your mechanic is looking to blame something other than his shoddy work?

What are we talking about, Hyundais?

 

[Last_Z]

by JB,

quote:

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If we had more people that were not AFRAID to run some M1 15W50 or that used Syntec 5W50 and reported their UOA we would have a bigger database to look at! Their is nothing stopping anyone on this forum from putting up or shutting up (excludeing ambient temps.)!

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I'm thinking of rising up to your challenge and giving QS 5W-50 a try. It should be interesting to see what it does in my LS1. I believe it is 80-85% PAO and should be a decent oil at worst.

Rick

ps; I'm not scared to try different oils.....it's just the voice of reason that holds me back (Terry, Patman, Molakule, etc)