Hyundai Motor closes engine development division. All development will focus on EV

[supton]

We probably have 50 more years of improvements to go on ICE vehicles to make them ultra powerful and ultra efficient.

Not a lot left in that tank. Just hitting 40% now, at best I think we might hit double that—but i’m not even sure about that, I don’t understand the Carnot diagram and all. But its not going to hit 100%, so at best we have a doubling that could occur.

Then I’m not sure about economy of scale. Bigger things tend to be more efficient, but a car needs to be on the small car.

 

[supton]

Not organically. But thru forced market decisions.

I wasn’t around in the 60’s/70’s when emissions controls were implemented, but i’m guessing the cry was the same. Seatbelts and safety equipment too I bet.

Should people be allowed to hawk wonder cures (aka snake oil) without interference? or is it ok for government “forced” limitations there?

 

[Krieg]

At least we are thinking outside of the box for the future! Change is constant.

 

[64bawagon]

I wasn’t around in the 60’s/70’s when emissions controls were implemented, but i’m guessing the cry was the same. Seatbelts and safety equipment too I bet.

Should people be allowed to hawk wonder cures (aka snake oil) without interference? or is it ok for government “forced” limitations there?

I believe the biggest fear was that the big 3 would half a$$ the emissions development much like other initiatives. Kinda like GM has done with their AFM/DFM systems to try and gain mileage

 

[PimTac]

I wasn’t around in the 60’s/70’s when emissions controls were implemented, but i’m guessing the cry was the same. Seatbelts and safety equipment too I bet.

Should people be allowed to hawk wonder cures (aka snake oil) without interference? or is it ok for government “forced” limitations there?

There was a period of learning and dealing with problems with the emission equipment on cars. First was the shift away from leaded gas which had older car owners worried about valve seals. Catalytic converters, air pumps and other add on equipment were stop gap measures to improve pollution emissions. The carburetors were getting complicated and cheap as well. Everywhere you went you could hear the sound of a engine pinging. All that contributed to the worst era in American automobile history and the beginning of the shift to foreign brands.

 

[supton]

There was a period of learning and dealing with problems with the emission equipment on cars. First was the shift away from leaded gas which had older car owners worried about valve seals. Catalytic converters, air pumps and other add on equipment were stop gap measures to improve pollution emissions. The carburetors were getting complicated and cheap as well. Everywhere you went you could hear the sound of a engine pinging. All that contributed to the worst era in American automobile history and the beginning of the shift to foreign brands.

So were people on board with the attempt for cleaner air, or did they gripe about government interference?

 

[mightymousetech]

Is Hyundai the outlier here? I mean, are any of the major car companies still spending big bucks developing new ICE motors?

BMW announced they have stopped ICE R&D quite a while ago. The current B series engines are the last.

 

[JeffKeryk]

So were people on board with the attempt for cleaner air, or did they gripe about government interference?

I'll give you 1 guess... It's ALWAYS the government's fault, doncha know?

 

[Job]

This here talking online was made possible largely by Uncle Sam. What a waste of money on something. It’s like they forced this here computer talking on me. I have no other choice but to use it and talk about which oil filter is the bestest.

 

[nthach]

Not a lot left in that tank. Just hitting 40% now, at best I think we might hit double that—but i’m not even sure about that, I don’t understand the Carnot diagram and all. But its not going to hit 100%, so at best we have a doubling that could occur.

Then I’m not sure about economy of scale. Bigger things tend to be more efficient, but a car needs to be on the small car.

Toyota was able to eke out something in the 30% range on the 2010-2015 Prius but that involved exhaust heat recovery. Their newest Dynamic Force engines hit 40% - using quite a bit of engineering witchcraft and some old school ideas(over square cylinders, electronically controlled water pump and T-stat BMW introduced in the 2000s) without resorting to the same tricks from the Prius playbook(coolant heat storage/exhaust heat recovery). Yes, it was a port of Mazda SkyActiv G.

 

[pezzy84]

Audi (and VWAG by extension?) announced the sunsetting of ICE development this past summer as well.

Audi ends ICE development in 2026

I have to say I have been supremely pleased with the EV in my sig and honestly I don't think I will ever go back to an ICE car or even a hybrid. Hybrids lose the low maintenance (or lack thereof) of EV because of the ICE. Outside of brake fluid exchange every 2 years on my E-Golf there really is nothing else to deal with outside normal consumables (tires, wiper blades and cabin filter). Doubt I will ever touch the brakes in my E-Golf as I have to make it a point on occasion to make some hard stops to clean the discs off or else they get noisy.

Also for folks saying EV's are only for liberal elite via some agenda. My used E-Golf was $12.5k when it was 3 years old with ~59k on the clock and VW sold it to me as a CPO with a 2/24k bumper to bumper warranty.

 

[PimTac]

So were people on board with the attempt for cleaner air, or did they gripe about government interference?

There was griping, that’s for sure. Any problem that cropped up was blamed on emission controls. Many of those gripes turned out to be true.

Usually with any major change there are bumps.

 

[oilcandave]

Not organically. But thru forced market decisions. E.g. it's going to be hard to buy an ICE when nobody makes them any more in a decade. So, yeah, EVs will have won the stacked deck race.

As far as "more financially accessible," that remains to be seen. I see 10 year loans at 5% in our future, so we can all get the newest $500,000 EV.

We would still have states with slavery if we left that decision "organic".

 

[pbm]

From what I'm told, 'Build Back Better' has lot's of subsidies for building electric charging stations....I don't recall the government subsidizing gas stations.
I'm not a fan of 'big government' over private development because government has unlimited financial resources....our money. Nobody gave a hoot when Solyndra went belly-up because it was the taxpayers who took the hit.

 

[oilcandave]

There can be a great idea that everybody agrees on until the govment gets on board than half jump ship.

I do not understand how money is the only determination of the right thing to do.

...and we have oil subsidies...

 

[Spyderman24_7]

Smart. Pretty clear now to most manufacturers that building this (the Bolt EV motor AND gearbox)

View attachment 82048

and a big battery is much faster and easier than these monstrosities.

View attachment 82050

View attachment 82051

They can get rid of about 30% of their employees and be much more profitable in the long run.

https://www.autonews.com/automakers...tes-electric-push-more-models-more-production

True, but factor in the fire suppression system they definitely need and the playing field will level out!

 

[oilcandave]

True, but factor in the fire suppression system they definitely need and the playing field will level out!

True, but factor in the fire suppression system they definitely need and the playing field will level out!

There are systems on all cars for fire mitigation called impact sensors to turn off fuel systems..

 

[PimTac]

From what I'm told, 'Build Back Better' has lot's of subsidies for building electric charging stations....I don't recall the government subsidizing gas stations.
I'm not a fan of 'big government' over private development because government has unlimited financial resources....our money. Nobody gave a hoot when Solyndra went belly-up because it was the taxpayers who took the hit.

I think the government should stay out of it. If consumer demand is high enough then we will see the service stations ripping out their car washes and installing charge points. That will also require expansion of the electrical infrastructure including power generation and transmission/distribution. We are not even close to that yet.

 

[JeffKeryk]

From what I'm told, 'Build Back Better' has lot's of subsidies for building electric charging stations....I don't recall the government subsidizing gas stations.
I'm not a fan of 'big government' over private development because government has unlimited financial resources....our money. Nobody gave a hoot when Solyndra went belly-up because it was the taxpayers who took the hit.

Perhaps check your sources. The Energy bill that supported Solyndra has made huge profits due to interest payments. Yes, Solyndra and other companies failed and defaulted on loans.
The US taxpayers subsidize tens of billions of dollars annually for fossil fuel exploration, production and consumption.

Interestingly, the old Solyndra buildings (500,000 sq ft) have been leased and are used by Tesla, as they are close to the Fremont plant. Over 10,000 employees work at the various buildings, including 1,000 at Solyndra, along interstate 880.

 

[pbm]

Perhaps check your sources. The Energy bill that supported Solyndra has made huge profits due to interest payments. Yes, Solyndra and other companies failed and defaulted on loans.
The US taxpayers subsidize tens of billions of dollars annually for fossil fuel exploration, production and consumption.

Interestingly, the old Solyndra buildings (500,000 sq ft) have been leased and are used by Tesla, as they are close to the Fremont plant. Over 10,000 employees work at the various buildings, including 1,000 at Solyndra, along interstate 880.

I don't have 'sources' just my memory. I don't support taxpayers subsidizing fossil fuel exploration, production and consumption either because I've seen first hand how gov't agencies WASTE money. The attitude is different when you're spending other people's money. I am a fan of smaller government period. It's pretty telling that virtually every Congressperson ans Senator get richer while in office. Unfortunately our media, who should be looking into such things, has joined in the game.