HVAC filters

I wish I knew how to read this stuff, but face value its seems our unit for our 1800 sq ft house is larger.
Someone will of course correct me if I'm wrong, but sizing calculations involve more than just the square footage. I imagine the # of stories plays in, the type of insulation, etc. Even windows, i.e. if you have a LOT, might factor in. Also, imagine you live in a wooded area. That wouldn't need as much cooling as a home that's in the wide open with no trees for shade.

Also if I am reading the BBB complainants correctly, for our area, if it is 92 degrees out the unit needs to be designed to maintain only 75 degrees inside.
I was always told that if you can maintain a 20º temperature drop, you're in good shape. Some systems might squeeze out an add'l 3º F. If the temperatures here are in the 90s, we have to have fans circulating air, blinds and curtains closed, and keep the thermostat at 74º or lower and if we do all that, (knock on wood), our system does a good job. If it gets 76-78º on one of those days, it can't catch up until it cools down outside.
 
Someone will of course correct me if I'm wrong, but sizing calculations involve more than just the square footage. I imagine the # of stories plays in, the type of insulation, etc. Even windows, i.e. if you have a LOT, might factor in. Also, imagine you live in a wooded area. That wouldn't need as much cooling as a home that's in the wide open with no trees for shade.


I was always told that if you can maintain a 20º temperature drop, you're in good shape. Some systems might squeeze out an add'l 3º F. If the temperatures here are in the 90s, we have to have fans circulating air, blinds and curtains closed, and keep the thermostat at 74º or lower and if we do all that, (knock on wood), our system does a good job. If it gets 76-78º on one of those days, it can't catch up until it cools down outside.
Humidity plays a big part of your temperature drop...Humidity makes the HVAC work harder...it has to cool and remove moisture too...
 
Someone will of course correct me if I'm wrong, but sizing calculations involve more than just the square footage. I imagine the # of stories plays in, the type of insulation, etc. Even windows, i.e. if you have a LOT, might factor in. Also, imagine you live in a wooded area. That wouldn't need as much cooling as a home that's in the wide open with no trees for shade.


I was always told that if you can maintain a 20º temperature drop, you're in good shape. Some systems might squeeze out an add'l 3º F. If the temperatures here are in the 90s, we have to have fans circulating air, blinds and curtains closed, and keep the thermostat at 74º or lower and if we do all that, (knock on wood), our system does a good job. If it gets 76-78º on one of those days, it can't catch up until it cools down outside.
All is correct and aware of that. I was posting about figuring out the tonnage that was already installed in the house. Another posted the response as it was showing up in the model #
15 to 20 is the standard. Do not think you want to go over 20. But if you do it may not matter in dryer areas, such as desert but to much cooling lets say at the sure = damp house
 
Humidity plays a big part of your temperature drop...Humidity makes the HVAC work harder...it has to cool and remove moisture too...
Gotta love BITOG for posts from people in here. You can learn so much, even when you think you know. Great to hear your input.

I never thought about this and actually never knew it. I looked up what you said, the loss of efficiency is pretty dramatic for every 10% increase in humidity. I now understand what @factorytuned2012 posted he was told from a heat and air company regarding a dehumidifier would increase the efficiency of a marginal AC unit. That is like wow. Im impressed he seems to have such knowledgeable A/C people. I never seem to ever find them and why I just started doing everything myself.
Moving from the hot (mostly dry) midlands of SC and a vastly larger home, the AC never felt (for the most part) challenged.

Still mostly the same here at the coast but the days I already posted about 2 weeks back, hot, humid, company in the house, the unit struggled most all day/
However, the thing that was throwing me off was, in the past, MANY times I checked the input and output temperatures and they were always in the 15 range, yet on that day we were closer to 12, so I thought maybe something was wrong and lost freon as I haven't checked it in a long time. I was paying extra attention before warranty ran out and also just months back an home inspector was taking readings too, all was good. Just never thought to check mid-summer humid days.

I do get it, (I think) that this does/can indicate an undersize unit in some cases and in other cases of unusual saturated air it can be just one of those things.
 
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THANK YOU! *LOL*
Ive been around refrigeration of all sorts before many some here were born *LOL* But one thing that always got me (even on my last home that had two units) was telling the Tonnage.

Our last units in the house we sold back in 2022 were Heil builder supplied and I know a lot of people in here are into the late most complicated designs I like simple and clean. Less to break and if they do break, readily enough available parts AND techs that understand basic systems. Anyway, the Heil basic units were running in a 3000+ sq ft home pretty much trouble free (one condenser fan motor, 2 capacitors, one contractor, all replaced by me) Both units still running strong after 16 years in the Columbia SC area of scorching hot summers (more hot then here at the coast but less humid) in this home, we NEVER opened a window, units ran all year long both for heat and cooling but main floor was a gas heat unit inside the blower box.

on the temperature spread of intake and o
Gotta love BITOG for posts from people in here. You can learn so much, even when you think you know. Great to hear your input.

I never thought about this and actually never knew it. I looked up what you said, the loss of efficiency is pretty dramatic for every 10% increase in humidity. I now understand what @factorytuned2012 posted he was told from a heat and air company regarding a dehumidifier would increase the efficiency of a marginal AC unit. That is like wow. Im impressed he seems to have such knowledgeable A/C people. I never seem to ever find them and why I just started doing everything myself.
Moving from the hot (mostly dry) midlands of SC and a vastly larger home, the AC never felt (for the most part) challenged.

Still mostly the same here at the coast but the days I already posted about 2 weeks back, hot, humid, company in the house, the unit struggled most all day/
However, the thing that was throwing me off was, in the past, MANY times I checked the input and output temperatures and they were always in the 15 range, yet on that day we were closer to 12, so I thought maybe something was wrong and lost freon as I haven't checked it in a long time. I was paying extra attention before warranty ran out and also just months back an home inspector was taking readings too, all was good. Just never thought to check mid-summer humid days.

I do get it, (I think) that this does/can indicate an undersize unit in some cases and in other cases of unusual saturated air it can be jsut one of those things.
definitely a great place to learn from each other here
 
I am far from an HVAC expert so I won't weigh in on any products or functions, but my system details may be helpful. And I am curious why a system would be "too big" for a given house.

My house is located within a mile of the coast, 2200 sq ft, 2 stories, cedar siding, minimal insulation (like most houses built the late 80s in SC), and lots of windows. I have a Payne 3 ton unit from 20+ years ago that still uses R-22, and it does a great job of cooling the house and removing humidity; on a 95 degree day it has no problem getting the house to 70 (although we usually have it set at 75). And to get back on topic, I use the cheap green fiberglass filters that my HVAC guy recommended (20x30 multipack at walmart).

I am curious why, as suggested above, a larger unit would run too infrequently and thus be unsuccessful at removing the humidity. My neighbor (1700 Sq ft, 1 story) replaced his 2 ton unit with a 3 ton unit and said it does a much better job of maintaining temperature and removing humidity.
 
I am far from an HVAC expert so I won't weigh in on any products or functions, but my system details may be helpful. And I am curious why a system would be "too big" for a given house.

My house is located within a mile of the coast, 2200 sq ft, 2 stories, cedar siding, minimal insulation (like most houses built the late 80s in SC), and lots of windows. I have a Payne 3 ton unit from 20+ years ago that still uses R-22, and it does a great job of cooling the house and removing humidity; on a 95 degree day it has no problem getting the house to 70 (although we usually have it set at 75). And to get back on topic, I use the cheap green fiberglass filters that my HVAC guy recommended (20x30 multipack at walmart).

I am curious why, as suggested above, a larger unit would run too infrequently and thus be unsuccessful at removing the humidity. My neighbor (1700 Sq ft, 1 story) replaced his 2 ton unit with a 3 ton unit and said it does a much better job of maintaining temperature and removing humidity.
You are lucky you still have R22....My Goodman lasted 20 years and it was R22....I was told by a few HVAC techs that the old R22 cooled better then the newer R410A systems like the one I got now... Again that is what the techs said not me....
 
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You are lucky you still have R22....My Goodman lasted 20 years and it was R22....I was told by a few HVAC techs that the old R22 cooled better then the newer R410A systems like the one I got now... Again that is what the techs said not me....
Mine said the same. But wouldn't a 3 ton R-22 system have the same cooling ability as a 3 ton modern unit?
 
I am curious why, as suggested above, a larger unit would run too infrequently and thus be unsuccessful at removing the humidity. My neighbor (1700 Sq ft, 1 story) replaced his 2 ton unit with a 3 ton unit and said it does a much better job of maintaining temperature and removing humidity.

From my limited understanding, I think the idea is that an oversized unit will cool down the interior space before it can effectively dehumidify the air. ie it shuts down after reaching the desired temperature too quickly and doesn't get a chance to circulate more of the air and dehumidify it. But with all the fancy new variable stuff, I'm not sure if this is still the case.

Hard to say what's going on with your neighbor's house since there are so many variables. 36k BTU does seem excessive for that space (I have the same size for 3000 sqft). Maybe the new unit has variable everything for better control?
 
I am far from an HVAC expert so I won't weigh in on any products or functions, but my system details may be helpful. And I am curious why a system would be "too big" for a given house.

My house is located within a mile of the coast, 2200 sq ft, 2 stories, cedar siding, minimal insulation (like most houses built the late 80s in SC), and lots of windows. I have a Payne 3 ton unit from 20+ years ago that still uses R-22, and it does a great job of cooling the house and removing humidity; on a 95 degree day it has no problem getting the house to 70 (although we usually have it set at 75). And to get back on topic, I use the cheap green fiberglass filters that my HVAC guy recommended (20x30 multipack at walmart).

I am curious why, as suggested above, a larger unit would run too infrequently and thus be unsuccessful at removing the humidity. My neighbor (1700 Sq ft, 1 story) replaced his 2 ton unit with a 3 ton unit and said it does a much better job of maintaining temperature and removing humidity.
Dehumidification takes time, and a unit that is oversized will short-cycle on and off more frequently (since thermostat set point is reached more quickly) instead of running longer to reach set point and therefore dehumidifying more effectively. You are also less comfortable with an oversized unit not only due to increased humidity but also due to increased temperature swings. Lastly, you have to keep in mind matching the air handler to the exterior unit...they have to be sized well to work together. In my case the furnace (air handler) is sized for heat needs and not cooling needs, but that's how it should be given my far north climate.
 
From my limited understanding, I think the idea is that an oversized unit will cool down the interior space before it can effectively dehumidify the air. ie it shuts down after reaching the desired temperature too quickly and doesn't get a chance to circulate more of the air and dehumidify it. But with all the fancy new variable stuff, I'm not sure if this is still the case.

Hard to say what's going on with your neighbor's house since there are so many variables. 36k BTU does seem excessive for that space (I have the same size for 3000 sqft). Maybe the new unit has variable everything for better control?
True. other variables may affect the neighbor's system. He initially wanted the same size unit but the HVAC guys (Carolina Cool) successfully upsold him to a bigger unit. I have no idea if it was really necessary, or if they installed a new air handler or other stuff with it. But for $11k I hope it lasts a long time!
 
I am curious why, as suggested above, a larger unit would run too infrequently and thus be unsuccessful at removing the humidity. My neighbor (1700 Sq ft, 1 story) replaced his 2 ton unit with a 3 ton unit and said it does a much better job of maintaining temperature and removing humidity.
I'll try to answer a few of your questions.
A 3 ton is a 3 ton no matter the age or refrigerant used.
If there is any difference, you may not be running at full capacity due to its age.

The difference between your house and the neighbors is the second story.
You have part of the house with cooled space above.... you have less heat gain.
Units are sized by sq ft, insulation values and design temp. Maybe some other thing I have forgotten, I'm not an engineer.

A simple HVAC as described is either on or off.
It only works at one speed.
If it is hotter outside, the compressor will have higher pressures and pull more amps.
A HVAC does not "cool" the air, it removes heat. The hotter it is outside, the harder it is to get rid of the heat gathered.
Heat pups have to gather heat from outside and bring it in. That is why they are less effective in colder climates.
Temperature setpoint or humidity have no effect on how hard a HVAC works.....just how long it runs.
Your unit does not "know" what the temperature is...it is either on or off as controlled by the TStat.
Unless a humidistat has been added...humidity has no effect on run time.

A properly sized unit will run long enough to control humidity.
Some engineers will oversize the evaporator coils in humid areas by 1/2 ton just for the extra surface area.
Allows for more condensate to form and run off.

An oversized unit may not have enough runtime to allow enough condensate to form and run off the coil to the drain.
I have had buildings that had drastically oversized units. They did not run long enough for the condensate to run off the coil.
In those cases, the condensate just evaporated and re-entered the space.
The air exiting the evaporator coil is at 100% humidity.
When that air warms and expands the humidity lowers.

Undersized units or undercharged units do not form condensate well.
The evap coil is not getting cold enough.
As a simple rule of thumb, your suction line should have condensate on it all the way back to the compressor...but not on the compressor body.

The best way to run a system in cooling mode is fan on.
It keeps interior temperatures more even and prevents hot spots.
Acts like a ceiling fan. The extra run time us somewhat offset by the lack of starting amps from the start stop of "Auto" operation.
A utility company class I took long ago said it was cheaper to run the fan all the time.
That may have changed.

In Heat mode, fan on auto.
 
I’m being told now it’s 600-700 sq ft depending on building materials and shade such as tree lines
I’m at 1 ton per 750 sqft and as I said no problem maintaining 68F until it reaches 95 outside. Above 95F, I get a 1 for 1 increase in interior and external temp, but I’ll take a 27F delta any day.
 
Humidity plays a big part of your temperature drop...Humidity makes the HVAC work harder...it has to cool and remove moisture too...
I have a portable dehumidifier and when we had some really bad humid days (inside the house, over 50% is noticeable), I ran it. It got it down to 42-45% humidity and it felt much better. I'd like to run it much more but it's a bit noisey.
 
So there are two different deltas here. Intake vs Output of the unit and inside home temperature vs outside temperature.

The temperature delta from outside should easily get larger than 15F as your AC runs. Your house is insulated and as the inside temp gets lowered the inside temp should also improve.

If your current AC cannot keep your temps in check, id think you'd want to look into your insulation/envelope leakage and or install a supplemental minisplit which will make things much more comfortable.

minisplits are cheap these days...
 
So there are two different deltas here. Intake vs Output of the unit and inside home temperature vs outside temperature.

The temperature delta from outside should easily get larger than 15F as your AC runs. Your house is insulated and as the inside temp gets lowered the inside temp should also improve.

If your current AC cannot keep your temps in check, id think you'd want to look into your insulation/envelope leakage and or install a supplemental minisplit which will make things much more comfortable.

minisplits are cheap these days...
It’s a new home new construction I don’t want to put money into it. It should have been done right from day one I see it.
 
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