HPL EC treatment started. 2007 Camry 2AZ-FE 153k consumption.

[skaughtz]

Thanks for doing this...I am in the same boat with my 2016 Mazda CX-5, though only about 0.5 quarts per 1k miles or so. I started with the B12 piston soak and am now doing the HPL EC30 run. I'll probably do a treatment of BG EPR and then repeat the whole thing again.

The fact that the B12 is staying in the cylinder is a good thing, the rings are sealing. You don't need to add more if the liquid is just sitting in there. The pistons that are draining aren't sealing as well so keep adding more.

When you are done vacuum or blow as much leftover B12 as you can out of the cylinders and then add some motor oil in each cylinder. Let the oil sit for a couple hours, then rotate the engine by hand again and then try and vacuum/blow that out as well. Add fresh oil to the engine and then fire her up! It may take a while to get started since the pistons are wet and it will need to build up some compression.

Take it for a good long drive after this and get the engine nice and hot. If you want to go full Captain Overkill...try another round of BG EPR and then another OCI of good oil with HPL EC30 cleaner. If this does reduce your oil consumption, consider doing it all again one more time.

Your pistons and plugs look like you are burning a bunch of oil, which is to be expected. I bet those cylinders will look much cleaner after the B12. I'd put those plugs back in after the piston soak and then replace them in a couple thousand miles when things are all cleaned up.

Post more updates!!!!!

Ah. Thanks bud. I am out of B12 but am considering getting another can to dump in the two cylinders that are still draining. I wouldn't think that there is any harm in letting it sit in the oil pan since it should be floating on top of the oil and the inside of the pain shouldn't be painted, but she already has about 40 ounces or so in there so I might just pull the drain plug and leave it out until I am done soaking.

Edit: At $4.22 a can on Amazon I got two more that will be here tomorrow. I don't need the car right now so I might as well just keep at it to see if I can improve the rings that are still letting liquid past. I will add more to the draining cylinders tomorrow afternoon and let it go another 24 hours.

 

[AdmiralYoda]

@skaughtz At the very least your oil pump screen will get a good cleaning! I'm impatient lol, I'd run to the local auto parts store and get another can to keep the party going in those two cylinders...

 

[skaughtz]

Thanks for doing this...I am in the same boat with my 2016 Mazda CX-5, though only about 0.5 quarts per 1k miles or so. I started with the B12 piston soak and am now doing the HPL EC30 run. I'll probably do a treatment of BG EPR and then repeat the whole thing again.

The fact that the B12 is staying in the cylinder is a good thing, the rings are sealing. You don't need to add more if the liquid is just sitting in there. The pistons that are draining aren't sealing as well so keep adding more.

When you are done vacuum or blow as much leftover B12 as you can out of the cylinders and then add some motor oil in each cylinder. Let the oil sit for a couple hours, then rotate the engine by hand again and then try and vacuum/blow that out as well. Add fresh oil to the engine and then fire her up! It may take a while to get started since the pistons are wet and it will need to build up some compression.

Take it for a good long drive after this and get the engine nice and hot. If you want to go full Captain Overkill...try another round of BG EPR and then another OCI of good oil with HPL EC30 cleaner. If this does reduce your oil consumption, consider doing it all again one more time.

Your pistons and plugs look like you are burning a bunch of oil, which is to be expected. I bet those cylinders will look much cleaner after the B12. I'd put those plugs back in after the piston soak and then replace them in a couple thousand miles when things are all cleaned up.

Post more updates!!!!!

Yeah, you're right. I am going to stop on the way home and grab a can for tonight. If I have an extra can to shelve I'm sure I will find a use for it eventually.

I am now a bit concerned with how much B12 has gone in before I add any more. The dipstick was about halfway down, but I would imagine that you wouldn't want the crankshaft to be soaking in a pool of B12-topped oil. I didn't want to drain the oil until I was done with the soak so that it would take as much B12 as it could with it on the cold drain.

 

[AdmiralYoda]

The rotating assembly will never bathe in the oil, so you shouldn't have to worry about it sitting in B12. If the crank and rods spinning at thousands of RPM were allowed to touch the oil sitting in the pan it would whip that oil into Mayonnaise! So don't worry if there is a quart or two of B12 sitting in the oil. If it stays under the full mark on the dipstick you should be fine.

When I did my piston soak I drained my oil first, then drained the B12 out that made it to the pan after the soak. I only drained about a half quart, but not much made it past the rings in my soak... I poured a leftover half empty bottle of cheapy oil down the valve cover to rinse out any B12 that was left sitting in the pan.

 

[skaughtz]

To continue...

Tuesday:
10:00am - 6 rotations - 2 ounces of B12 in each cylinder (8 ounces)

Wednesday:
4:00pm - 6 rotations - 3 ounces of B12 in cylinders 2 and 4 (6 ounces) - oil drained and drain bolt left out.

The "oil" level on the dipstick was definitely a decent bit above the high mark so I decided to get it out of there. I will say that I get that there might be some benefit to running the B12 oil through the engine to get to the rings more, but what came out of mine was the consistency of water, not oil, and I would not like running that through my engine. Then again, it probably had about 35-40 ounces of B12 in it...

Anyhoo, I am now just going to let the B12 drain down and out of the pan. I have two more bottles coming tomorrow and 9 ounces left of the one I just purchased so I am going to keep hitting cylinders 2 and 4 until they hold liquid for an extended period or I run out of B12 again. Cylinders 1 and 3 still had liquid in them even after rotating them 6 times.

 

[skaughtz]

Wednesday:
10:00pm - 6 rotations - 2+ ounces of B12 in each cylinder (9 ounces)

Cranking this **** engine is killing my elbows. I don't know if cylinders 1 and 3 started to drain again or (more likely) they spewed out their B12 pools into the sacrificial bath towel after I rotated it earlier, but I could see the cup on each piston begin to emerge. I added the rest of today's bottle to all of them and will check it again in the morning. It's a good thing that I am a decent sized guy because coming in sideways from the front passenger side wheel is murder on the joints to push it past top/bottom dead center.

 

[berniedd]

One member here posted that he pours the B12 in, returns the spark plugs into the head, let it soak some, then turns the crankshaft with a wrench to let the resulting compression force the B12 past the rings and hopefully do a better job of getting to the deposits in the rings and lands. Sounds logical.

 

[TomYoung]

You have introduced too many variables, if you see an improvement it will be hard to definitively say it was the PCB replacement or the HPL cleaner that reduced consumption.

And what would knowing that get you? More likely there will be minimal improvement without a mechanical fix, which is probably not happening on a car of this age and mileage. The oil consumption is totally unacceptable and I think the parts cannon was totally reasonable.

 

[AdmiralYoda]

One member here posted that he pours the B12 in, returns the spark plugs into the head, let it soak some, then turns the crankshaft with a wrench to let the resulting compression force the B12 past the rings and hopefully do a better job of getting to the deposits in the rings and lands. Sounds logical.

Not a good idea. Liquid doesn't compress and the piston will physically not be able to move, this is called Hydrolock. If you are turning the engine over by hand you probably won't be able to turn it over. If you use the starter you might bend a connecting rod.

There is no magic here. If the cylinders have too much B12 in them with the spark plugs OUT and you rotate the engine to TDC you might be pushing the B12 into intake or exhaust valves when they open.

All that is needed is a little ring movement, no need to rotate the engine over and over. Without the spark plugs in rotate the engine clockwise so the pistons move a few inches. Next time rotate the engine counter-clockwise so the pistons move a couple inches in the opposite direction. This will exercise the tension on the rings in each direction.

 

[skaughtz]

Okay. I think I have had my fill now.

Thursday:
6:30pm - 1 rotation - Heavy 3 ounces into each cylinder (12 ounces)

I have a wedding to go to on Saturday and in-laws visiting on Sunday, so tomorrow is when I am going to finish this project up. I plan to shop vac out whatever liquid is left in the cylinders, then blast out the rest starting her without the plugs in. I have a sacrificial jug of SuperTech and a sacrificial Purolator Tech TL20195 that I am going to use to get her to start for the first time with the old plugs. Assuming she starts, I am going to let her idle to temperature and then take her out for a drive. After that, another oil and filter change and new spark plugs in.

This is the PITA crank location:

Edit: I'll be sure to include some after photos of the pistons once I clear them out.

 

[skaughtz]

So the current status. I checked it at about 10am this morning. Cylinder 1 had plenty of B12 floating in it still. Cylinder 3 had some pooled in the cup. Cylinders 2 and 4 were bone dry. It did get into the 30's last night I believe so maybe that had something to do with it. Anyway, here are what the four pistons looked like after I used the Solvent Sucker 2000 on them:

1

2

3 (which actually had some of the carbon completely removed from the top of the piston)

4

So as you can see, that stuff is baked on.

I proceeded with replacing the oil and filter, put the wheel back on, and got her ready to go. I turned the engine a couple of times with the plugs out, first with the sacrificial towel on top to catch anything that might spew out:

And then without anything just to see if anything else came misting out. However, my dumbass forgot to pull the fuse for the fuel injectors, so now they look like this:

Soooo, I'm not sure if that is fuel that just pooled up in there or if it is oil already slipping past the rings (I'm hoping it is fuel). I tried sucking out what I could again, but this is the best that I could do. So now I am just letting it chill out there with the hood up and the plugs out hoping this evaporates or drains. Unless someone can suggest otherwise, I don't think I should put the plugs in yet and try to get her to start, which is the next step.

 

[skaughtz]

Here are hopefully a little better shots of what they currently look like. My little Amazon phone bore scope is only so good:

Edit: It does appear to be draining or evaporating relatively quickly. I am going to give it an hour and if the pools are gone I am going to put the old plugs in and pray.

 

[skaughtz]

The tub of the shop vac smells like gasoline and is dry, so I am hoping that is all that it was. I stuck the vac tube back in cylinders 1 and 2 (3 and 4 are dry) and it looks like I got what little bit back out. I am waiting another 20 minutes and then going to try to fire her up. Cylinders 1 and 2 look like this now:

 

[skaughtz]

IT'S ALIVE!

She took about 5 minutes of cranking to turn over with some brief pauses every 20 seconds or so. She was vibrating pretty heavy while I was trying to do it, but once she finally did fire she got to normal idle quickly. White smoke spewed out for about a minute but was done by then, which must be because I drained the oil. Now I am going to let her idle for 15 minutes or so, then take her on a 16 mile drive up and down a local highway. Then drain the oil and filter, let her cool, and replace the plugs with the new ones. More to come.

 

[martinq]

IT'S ALIVE!

She took about 5 minutes of cranking to turn over with some brief pauses every 20 seconds or so. She was vibrating pretty heavy while I was trying to do it, but once she finally did fire she got to normal idle quickly. White smoke spewed out for about a minute but was done by then, which must be because I drained the oil. Now I am going to let her idle for 15 minutes or so, then take her on a 16 mile drive up and down a local highway. Then drain the oil and filter, let her cool, and replace the plugs with the new ones. More to come.

The little bit in the cylinders (cleaner or gas) would not affect anything but you should have added some lube to the cylinders before cranking with the starter. Oil provides the seal that you need for compression and that's probably why you had to crank for so long.

Thanks for the update, looking forward to what happens next. Good luck!

 

[skaughtz]

Running like a champ. No CEL, no stuttering or hesitation, and restarts quick as a bunny. The battery light is still on ten seconds after starting and there is a bit of coolant dripping from the radiator, but at least I didn't muck up the piston soak!

To recap, 71 ounces of Berryman's B12 went into the cylinders (4.73 bottles) over the course of not quite a week.

Sunday 10-20-2024
7:30pm - 2 ounces of B12 in each cylinder (8 ounces)

Monday 10-21-2024
12:30am - 6 rotations - 2 ounces of B12 in each cylinder (8 ounces)
8:00am - 6 rotations - 2 ounces of B12 in each cylinder (8 ounces)
2:00pm - 6 rotations - 1 ounce of B12 in each cylinder (4 ounces)
9:00pm - 6 rotations - 2 ounces of B12 in each cylinder (8 ounces)

Tuesday 10-22-2024
10:00am - 6 rotations - 2 ounces of B12 in each cylinder (8 ounces)

Wednesday 10-23-2024
4:00pm - 6 rotations - 3 ounces of B12 in cylinders 2 and 4 (6 ounces) - oil drained and drain bolt left out.
10:00pm - 6 rotations - 2+ ounces of B12 in each cylinder (9 ounces)

Thursday 10-24-2024
6:30pm - 1 rotation - Heavy 3 ounces into each cylinder (12 ounces)

Friday 10-25-2024
Oil refilled, filter changed, old plugs put back in. Started after 5 minutes of cranking. White smoke for ~1 minute.

I am going to try to get to the second oil/filter/plugs change later tonight, but that might not happen until tomorrow morning because there are some errands that have popped up and then I might get drunk to celebrate. I also have two quarts of HPL EC leftover so I am going to throw one of those in as well. From there I will be checking every 100 miles. My weekly commute to and from work is about 102 miles round trip, and I am going to drive her around town just to get miles on her. If this did anything then I should know relatively soon. I don't expect it to fix the problem, but if it can at least remedy some of the oil burning for now I'll take it. If I do see improvement I will probably end up doing this again at the next oil change. If I don't see anything, I will drive her into a reservoir mob-style.

Edit: Oh, and if anyone is interested, here are the burn rates from the last three OCIs graphed out:

 

[KnappAttak]

Interesting that there is still carbon on the pistons. After doing the Berryman's B12 soak on our 2018 Q7 with 3.0t V6 the tops of the pistons were pretty dang clean, so clean you could see the part numbers etched into them. I had to blow out the loose carbon from the cylinders because the carbon prevented the pistons from rolling over TDC quite a bit.

I did a two day soak and started with about a 4 oz soak in each cylinder to start, the last hours of the soak I had 8 oz in each cylinder with the pistons at BDC, completely covering the entire piston before sucking it out.

We went from using a quart in 400 miles, to using no oil in 2300 miles so far since the soak. Well, actually it did consume 1/4 qt in the first 40 miles, then it completely stopped using oil from that point on. So the rings still needed that 40 miles of being run after the soak to free up nicely. I run the vehicle hard thru the gears to redline every time we take it out at least once or twice at least.

I did the B12 and had about a can 16 oz or so in the crankcase after the soak, I then added another can of BG EPR and ran the engine for 20 min at 1500 RPM then dropped the oil and switched right to Valvoline Restore & Protect which is still in it. Once I hit 3000 miles on that oil, I'm going to do a run of VR&P and run it again till 5000 miles and do a sample on it. So far, knock on wood, I have fixed the sticking oil control rings doing this.

 

[AdmiralYoda]

Great job! Before you dump the SuperTech oil that is in there now and go back to the HPL EC....maybe try another round of BG EPR? My rationale is that the piston soaked may have cured everything, loosened some crud, or done nothing! Perhaps the BG EPR will take care of anything that is left. Then switch back to the HPL EC and keep pushing for any possible improvement.

 

[skaughtz]

Great job! Before you dump the SuperTech oil that is in there now and go back to the HPL EC....maybe try another round of BG EPR? My rationale is that the piston soaked may have cured everything, loosened some crud, or done nothing! Perhaps the BG EPR will take care of anything that is left. Then switch back to the HPL EC and keep pushing for any possible improvement.

I couldn't wait any longer. I got her a fresh oil and filter change today with the plugs and the quart of HPL EC. I should have 100 miles on her by the end of Thursday so I should have an idea of what is going on. Either way I doubt this is a one and done operation.

The bigger problem is that the oil is so **** clean even after driving her around a little bit that it is difficult to see exactly where it is on the dipstick, but from the looks of the smear test it is just a fraction below the top dot.

Edit: One thing that I did notice is that before the soak the first start of the day was long and sluggish and now it is not. I am guessing that it is because after she sat overnight enough oil drained down out of the cylinders past the pistons that it reduced compression for that first start. She is starting like a champ now, so fingers crossed.

 

[addyguy]

If you want the carbon off those pistons, do a water de-carboning.
Fill a spray bottle with water, take the air cleaner hose off the TB, and spray shots of water into it as you rev it by hand.