HPL EC treatment started. 2007 Camry 2AZ-FE 153k consumption.

[skaughtz]

2007 Camry LE 2.4L 2AZ-FE 153k. She has been fed either M1 or PPHM 0W-20 for just under 100k miles.

I figured I might as well document this here since BITOG suggested I try the HPL EC route to try to lower the oil consumption. I am not attempting a piston soak because 1) I don't have the time to let it sit for days on end and 2) with my luck I will wind up hydrolocking the darn thing.

Yesterday I changed the oil and it was quite black. She takes 4.5 quarts each change (4.3 quarts pan, 0.2 quarts filter) so added 1 quart of HPL EC and 3.5 quarts M1HM 5W-30 with a Fram FE3614 (so the total might be closer to 4.7ish quarts with the bigger filter, but whatever). Next I am removing 1.5 quarts from a 5 quart jug of M1HM 5W-30 and adding 1 quart HPL EC to it to keep the same ratio of M1:HPL EC to use for topping off the oil as it burns. As per HPL David's suggestion, this OCI will be 3k miles, with follow up OCI's being 5k. I will continue to top off with the M1:HPL EC mixture throughout each OCI.

Her last not-exactly-precise-but-pretty-close measurement of consumption was ~4.8 quarts over 3k miles, so we are calling it 5 quarts for 3k miles at 1 quart per 600 miles. After the 1 quart of HPL EC added to the oil change, I have six more coming soon. That will give me enough for 3 more complete oil changes and 3 quarts to maintain the top off jug ratio. If I stick to the 3k/5k/5k/5k intervals that will run HPL EC through the engine continuously for the next 18k miles. I expect/hope the switch up to 5W-30 to offset some of the consumption on its own, but down the line we can see if the HPL EC makes a difference.

I will report back periodically as things progress.

 

[buster]

Has the engine always consumed oil at that rate?

 

[skaughtz]

Has the engine always consumed oil at that rate?

Negative. My last full OCI record is from 2019 pre-COVID. 3.6 quarts over 5,340 miles (1 quart/1483 miles from 110k to 115k). Changes in work commute/driving habits since then led to primarily short around-town trips and increased the consumption considerably, despite her receiving routine maintenance throughout.

 

[twouvakind]

Holy future oil fouled catalytic converter batman.

 

[skaughtz]

Holy future oil fouled catalytic converter batman.

Is this in regard to the consumption or the cleaning run I'm about to do? Or both?

 

[Cujet]

If the engine has used M1/Syn since new, it is very unlikely the rings are stuck or the piston drain holes clogged. If that's the case, a piston soak or secret cleaning sauce won't help.

Possible the low tension rings have the common problem of a tiny bit of wear and just don't seal well anymore. Like it or not, ultra thin oils accelerate ring wear.

 

[twouvakind]

Is this in regard to the consumption or the cleaning run I'm about to do? Or both?

It's consumption history, doubt the EC will cause it to consume more. Worth a shot as you are already committed.

 

[skaughtz]

If the engine has used M1/Syn since new, it is very unlikely the rings are stuck or the piston drain holes clogged. If that's the case, a piston soak or secret cleaning sauce won't help.

I got her in 2014 with 57,768 miles on her. My understanding is that the previous owner was an elderly person who took it to quick shops for conventional oil every 3k miles after the dealer warranty ran out. They ran it into a pole and cracked the front bumper and radiator and sold it to a local guy that runs his own shop and deals exclusively in Toyota/Lexus. He fixed it up and sold it to me. From 58k to 86,562 she had M1 or PP 0W-20. From then on she got high mileage. Given the history of the 2AZ-FE I would be shocked if it doesn't have the same symptoms.

 

[Highboy]

I hate to say this, but the B12 piston soak is the only thing that will help with your oil consumption. I was 3 to 400 miles on a quart. I tried many oil additives and the soak worked the best for me. Same engine in my Scion Tc. I’m on a Castrol 0-40 oil run now and at 1350 miles I’m down very little.

 

[skaughtz]

I hate to say this, but the B12 piston soak is the only thing that will help with your oil consumption. I was 3 to 400 miles on a quart. I tried many oil additives and the soak worked the best for me. Same engine in my Scion Tc. I’m on a Castrol 0-40 oil run now and at 1350 miles I’m down very little.

Well the HPL isn't going to hurt anything or break the bank, and it is a **** sight easier than a piston soak, so I'll try that first. If I'm in the same situation by the end of it I still have the soak option. It makes for an interesting case study at least.

 

[Revving2Redline]

If the engine has used M1/Syn since new, it is very unlikely the rings are stuck or the piston drain holes clogged. If that's the case, a piston soak or secret cleaning sauce won't help.

Possible the low tension rings have the common problem of a tiny bit of wear and just don't seal well anymore. Like it or not, ultra thin oils accelerate ring wear.

Moved my 2017 Accord Sport to xW30 and it was much better especially being on highway. I think a 0 or 5w30 is a better bet especially with fuel dilution and low tension rings.

 

[RTexasF]

The 2.4l is a known oil burner due to faulty piston rings. The oil burning can be reduced slightly but the defective rings & pistons must be replaced to stop it. At 153K even in great shape, some oil usage would likely be considered normal. I would not be pouring M1 into an oil guzzler, just too expensive. Best of luck...

 

[skaughtz]

Update #1

October 19, 2023. 153,332 miles. 213.0 miles into OCI1.

I checked the oil and she was at or just below half on the dipstick. The total on the dipstick is 1.2 quarts from bottom dot to top dot. I overfilled it slightly adding about 0.8 quarts (guesstimate) of the M1HM 5W-30/HPL EC mixture.

I was also incorrect in my original estimate of oil burning because I forgot to include a measurement in my log so Excel didn't populate the total correctly. Prior to this she was burning about 1 quart for every 500 miles. So that is the new baseline I am running with.

Also while checking my maintenance log I realized that the PCV valve was last replaced 89,032 miles ago. Given that she is burning oil I decided to replace that as well with another OEM valve. The old one still rattled and was a bit gunked up, but honestly better than I expected (not that I have a basis of comparison). The ventilation hose also decided it was not going to cooperate, being stiff as a board, so that got replaced with prejudice as well (who invents the clamps on these things?).

On a tangential note, I hooked up my OBDII scanner just to check after replacing the PCV valve and letting it idle for a couple of minutes. There are no codes but the O2S, CAT, and EVA are all flashing red. I'm surprised since it was a new, clean, working PCV valve, but is that to be expected since it altered things? The valve is goodentight and the hose connections are flush and clamped.

 

[Drew7a]

Update #1

October 19, 2023. 153,332 miles. 213.0 miles into OCI1.

I checked the oil and she was at or just below half on the dipstick. The total on the dipstick is 1.2 quarts from bottom dot to top dot. I overfilled it slightly adding about 0.8 quarts (guesstimate) of the M1HM 5W-30/HPL EC mixture.

I was also incorrect in my original estimate of oil burning because I forgot to include a measurement in my log so Excel didn't populate the total correctly. Prior to this she was burning about 1 quart for every 500 miles. So that is the new baseline I am running with.

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Also while checking my maintenance log I realized that the PCV valve was last replaced 89,032 miles ago. Given that she is burning oil I decided to replace that as well with another OEM valve. The old one still rattled and was a bit gunked up, but honestly better than I expected (not that I have a basis of comparison). The ventilation hose also decided it was not going to cooperate, being stiff as a board, so that got replaced with prejudice as well (who invents the clamps on these things?).

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On a tangential note, I hooked up my OBDII scanner just to check after replacing the PCV valve and letting it idle for a couple of minutes. There are no codes but the O2S, CAT, and EVA are all flashing red. I'm surprised since it was a new, clean, working PCV valve, but is that to be expected since it altered things? The valve is goodentight and the hose connections are flush and clamped.

You have introduced too many variables, if you see an improvement it will be hard to definitively say it was the PCB replacement or the HPL cleaner that reduced consumption.

 

[skaughtz]

You have introduced too many variables, if you see an improvement it will be hard to definitively say it was the PCB replacement or the HPL cleaner that reduced consumption.

That thought certainly crossed my mind, but 1) that valve needed to be replaced either way and 2) if there is a sudden dramatic decrease in oil consumption (which I am not expecting) it would be pretty easy to attribute it to the PCV valve since the HPL is designed to work slowly and over an extended period of time (which would also quickly establish a new consumption baseline). If the consumption stays the same for the next couple of top offs then I can ignore the PCV valve as a variable. Better to change the valve now at the start of the HPL treatment than halfway through.

 

[skaughtz]

After a short drive the O2S and CAT are solid green while EVA is still flashing red, so I'm sure it will be fine. I am honestly surprised though that putting in a new PCV valve and hose triggered the readiness monitors, so maybe they were worse off than I thought (the readiness monitors were fine before, for what that is worth)?

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

2007 Camry LE 2.4L 2AZ-FE 153k. She has been fed either M1 or PPHM 0W-20 for just under 100k miles.

I figured I might as well document this here since BITOG suggested I try the HPL EC route to try to lower the oil consumption. I am not attempting a piston soak because 1) I don't have the time to let it sit for days on end and 2) with my luck I will wind up hydrolocking the darn thing.

Yesterday I changed the oil and it was quite black. She takes 4.5 quarts each change (4.3 quarts pan, 0.2 quarts filter) so added 1 quart of HPL EC and 3.5 quarts M1HM 5W-30 with a Fram FE3614 (so the total might be closer to 4.7ish quarts with the bigger filter, but whatever). Next I am removing 1.5 quarts from a 5 quart jug of M1HM 5W-30 and adding 1 quart HPL EC to it to keep the same ratio of M1:HPL EC to use for topping off the oil as it burns. As per HPL David's suggestion, this OCI will be 3k miles, with follow up OCI's being 5k. I will continue to top off with the M1:HPL EC mixture throughout each OCI.

Her last not-exactly-precise-but-pretty-close measurement of consumption was ~4.8 quarts over 3k miles, so we are calling it 5 quarts for 3k miles at 1 quart per 600 miles. After the 1 quart of HPL EC added to the oil change, I have six more coming soon. That will give me enough for 3 more complete oil changes and 3 quarts to maintain the top off jug ratio. If I stick to the 3k/5k/5k/5k intervals that will run HPL EC through the engine continuously for the next 18k miles. I expect/hope the switch up to 5W-30 to offset some of the consumption on its own, but down the line we can see if the HPL EC makes a difference.

I will report back periodically as things progress.

If you do piston soaks, per Kreen (the 800-lb Gorilla of piston soaks) you pull the plugs out, pour an ounce in the cyl, leave the plugs out and crank 4-5 revolutions, then stick the plugs back in and let it sit overnight. Then the next day you pull the plugs again, crank 4-5 revolutions, then reinstall plugs & coils.

If it were mine and needed a piston soak, I would repeat the first 4 steps at least 3 times over at least 2 days without starting the engine. Then on the third day, I would dump all remaining Kreen in the sump with the oil, fire it back up, let it idle til the engine got up to operating temp (min 15-20 mins), then shut it off, drain the oil, and fill it with HPL and a Fram Endurance filter, then run at least a 6k OCI to finish the cleaning process.

After that, carry on like the engine is new, because IMO an engine that’s been Kreen’d 3x then run HPL for 6k is going to be as clean as you could expect for an engine that’s not fresh out of the machine shop. Whether or not the parts are still in good enough condition to act as new remains to be seen, but any performance impact will not be from substandard oil deposits/residues.

 

[wlk]

If you do piston soaks, per Kreen (the 800-lb Gorilla of piston soaks) you pull the plugs out, pour an ounce in the cyl, leave the plugs out and crank 4-5 revolutions, then stick the plugs back in and let it sit overnight. Then the next day you pull the plugs again, crank 4-5 revolutions, then reinstall plugs & coils.

If it were mine and needed a piston soak, I would repeat the first 4 steps at least 3 times over at least 2 days without starting the engine. Then on the third day, I would dump all remaining Kreen in the sump with the oil, fire it back up, let it idle til the engine got up to operating temp (min 15-20 mins), then shut it off, drain the oil, and fill it with HPL and a Fram Endurance filter, then run at least a 6k OCI to finish the cleaning process.

After that, carry on like the engine is new, because IMO an engine that’s been Kreen’d 3x then run HPL for 6k is going to be as clean as you could expect for an engine that’s not fresh out of the machine shop. Whether or not the parts are still in good enough condition to act as new remains to be seen, but any performance impact will not be from substandard oil deposits/residues.

Is Kreen just a flushing additive or something that can be driven a couple hundred miles in the oil like Gumout or Seafoam? I do not have any experience with it but see it mentioned here and there. Have read in searches that some just use as flush but some mention driving it for some miles, maybe they put in less? No real numbers are mentioned for the amount that is added to the oils other than 16-32 oz while doing flushes. Just curious. TY

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Is Kreen just a flushing additive or something that can be driven a couple hundred miles in the oil like Gumout or Seafoam? I do not have any experience with it but see it mentioned here and there. Have read in searches that some just use as flush but some mention driving it for some miles, maybe they put in less? No real numbers are mentioned for the amount that is added to the oils other than 16-32 oz while doing flushes. Just curious. TY

You put it in and leave it for 1000 miles, it has a low flash point so it evaporates while it’s working… you’ll need to monitor oil level and keep it topped up.

 

[Fredxt]

Has anyone tried hot shot secret stiction elimination for the same purpose before?