HPL EC treatment started. 2007 Camry 2AZ-FE 153k consumption.

[BrendanC]

At some point I will probably give it a shot, but I am admittedly terrified of hydrolocking the thing since I do still use her as my daily beater. I have watched enough videos where people either use a vacuum (which I suppose I could rig up some piping on my handheld shop vac to accomplish that) or cranking it with the plugs out to expel any extra liquid on top of the pistons... But I'm still not fond of the whole idea. With my luck I will miss something.

shop vac with a piece of tubing taped on the end is what i used to get it all out, spun it over on the starter then put plugs back in it. no issues 6k miles later and it improved oil consumption dramatically on our honda K24. make sure you’re somewhere well ventilated as the fumes when pouring in hot are very strong. the exhaust will also be smoking white and have a strong odor to it for a little while afterwards.

 

[skaughtz]

shop vac with a piece of tubing taped on the end is what i used to get it all out, spun it over on the starter then put plugs back in it. no issues 6k miles later and it improved oil consumption dramatically on our honda K24. make sure you’re somewhere well ventilated as the fumes when pouring in hot are very strong. the exhaust will also be smoking white and have a strong odor to it for a little while afterwards.

It looks like it comes in 15 ounce cans, so do you mind sharing what procedure you used? 4.25 ounces into each cylinder, manually rotate it x number of times every 6/12/24 hours, then repeat for as long as desired? Then suck out any remainder on top of the pistons before draining the oil? I see some people take it out for a drive before draining the oil, but I think I would rather not have that stuff flowing throughout the engine/seals/etc.

Edit: For everyone, I suppose, I have also seen comments about how the B12 can drastically reduce compression afterwards since it strips away all of the oil from the cylinder walls and compression rings. Is there a preventative solution for this?

 

[BrendanC]

It looks like it comes in 15 ounce cans, so do you mind sharing what procedure you used? 4.25 ounces into each cylinder, manually rotate it x number of times every 6/12/24 hours, then repeat for as long as desired? Then suck out any remainder on top of the pistons before draining the oil? I see some people take it out for a drive before draining the oil, but I think I would rather not have that stuff flowing throughout the engine/seals/etc.

i got the big “suv” sized can and just poured it by eye ball into each cylinder. i did it with the engine as hot as possible. drove it, then parked and pulled coils and plugs to pour it in, it will boil like crazy! i kept topping up the cylinders until my bottle was empty. i let it soak for ~4ish hours before sucking out the remaining B12 with the shop vac. turned it over on starter then put the plugs in. took forever to start and sounded like it had no compression but it finally started.

after the piston soak i immediately did a 20 min at 2k rpm EPR soak then dropped the oil.

 

[dumkid]

It looks like it comes in 15 ounce cans, so do you mind sharing what procedure you used? 4.25 ounces into each cylinder, manually rotate it x number of times every 6/12/24 hours, then repeat for as long as desired? Then suck out any remainder on top of the pistons before draining the oil? I see some people take it out for a drive before draining the oil, but I think I would rather not have that stuff flowing throughout the engine/seals/etc.

Edit: For everyone, I suppose, I have also seen comments about how the B12 can drastically reduce compression afterwards since it strips away all of the oil from the cylinder walls and compression rings. Is there a preventative solution for this?

To help with the dry cylinders put like a teaspoon of motor oil in each cylinder. Do these toyotas have dished pistons? Sometimes dished pistons make it harder to get oil to the rings (you have to add extra and then suck some back out)

 

[Highboy]

It looks like it comes in 15 ounce cans, so do you mind sharing what procedure you used? 4.25 ounces into each cylinder, manually rotate it x number of times every 6/12/24 hours, then repeat for as long as desired? Then suck out any remainder on top of the pistons before draining the oil? I see some people take it out for a drive before draining the oil, but I think I would rather not have that stuff flowing throughout the engine/seals/etc.

Edit: For everyone, I suppose, I have also seen comments about how the B12 can drastically reduce compression afterwards since it strips away all of the oil from the cylinder walls and compression rings. Is there a preventative solution for this?

You can use some fogging oil that is used when storing equipment.

 

[wlk]

Add a few oz to each cylinder, let it soak, turn the motor by hand every few hours. I put a towel over the top of the motor to help reduce evaporation. Add more as needed for however long you do the soak. When done turn the motor over with the plugs out to blow the cylinders out. Add your plugs and let it crank as it will take a bit to start but it will. Change the oil after that and be on your way.

 

[MrQuackers]

Add a few oz to each cylinder, let it soak, turn the motor by hand every few hours. I put a towel over the top of the motor to help reduce evaporation. Add more as needed for however long you do the soak. When done turn the motor over with the plugs out to blow the cylinders out. Add your plugs and let it crank as it will take a bit to start but it will. Change the oil after that and be on your way.

With ~quart residual, after a soak procedure I dump the oil and add some sacrificial oil from the clearance stash for a short idle, and then change the oil again.

Now you have a fresher start

 

[skaughtz]

I'm baaaack.

I finally have a third vehicle so today I decided to put the Camry up on stands and do some work. I changed the valve cover first since she is 17 years old with 160k and had never had it done. Talk about crispy bacon. It was intact but hard as a rock.

After I confirmed that was good and she cooled back down to ambient temperature I started the soak. I have three cans of B12 and started with 2 ounces in each cylinder. I won't be sticking to exactly 6 hour intervals, but I will get her in the morning, afternoon and evening. My spark plugs are also looking pretty rough. I will get some pictures of those tomorrow. In the meantime, every cylinder looks the same and they are not pretty.

 

[skaughtz]

The existing spark plugs. These are Denso Iridium long life that only have about 37-38k on them. I am no expert but they definitely look a bit cooked to me... The ones I pulled out at 120k looked better than these. I got some Denso Platinum TT's for $3 a piece on RockAuto until I see if this piston soak fixes anything. No sense spending double just to fry another set of Iridium plugs.

 

[JAG]

This saga is fascinating. Thank you for documenting it and I look forward to what comes next.

 

[skaughtz]

This saga is fascinating. Thank you for documenting it and I look forward to what comes next.

I'm glad someone is enjoying this, haha. I have two more OCIs worth of data sets on the consumption that include BG EPR to share, but figured I would do that when I finish the soak. In the meantime, the same car has been through the ringer. At some point the battery light came on, and after changing out the battery and then the alternator, the light still comes on 10 seconds after starting, so it must be some corrosion or something somewhere along the circuit because after hours poking and prodding everything I could think of with a multimeter the actual charging system seems fine. Then, a month ago this happened:

Initially insurance declared it a total loss, but after it got towed to the appraiser they said she was repairable because she was still drivable. That is about 1/3 of the branch that actually fell on it, and in addition to destroying the windshield it banged up the hood pretty good. So that was a fun claim. BUT THEN when they rolled it back off of the tow truck at my house she had this:

At some point the geniuses that my insurance contracted with backed a rolloff or tow truck or something into it. So that was fun. And I'm pretty sure that branch cracked the radiator because she is leaking just a bit of coolant when the system is pressurized, so that is a future project. But the wife insisted we not have two older cars that were beat to hell so I finally caved and got a used Pilot. Now the Camry is my daily beater to and from work in the city so it has also become my experiment car.

 

[JAG]

Good grief, that car is having a rough life!

 

[skaughtz]

I will also say that she is starting to get hard to crank by hand at top dead center and the opposite. In between is easy, but my elbow is hurting on those two now. I have to come in through the front passenger side wheel so I am using an extension straight off of the crank pulley. So far:

Sunday
7:30pm - 2 ounces of B12 in each cylinder (8 ounces)

Monday
12:30am - 6 rotations - 2 ounces of B12 in each cylinder (8 ounces)
8:00am - 6 rotations - 2 ounces of B12 in each cylinder (8 ounces)
2:00pm - 6 rotations - 1 ounce of B12 in each cylinder (4 ounces)
9:00pm - 6 rotations - 2 ounces of B12 in each cylinder (8 ounces)

Fortunately, it doesn't seem to be geysering out liquid when I crank it. The towel that I am putting over it is a little wet, especially from cylinder 4, but not soaking wet. I am letting it sit all night tonight and then tomorrow morning around 8am or so I am going to rotate the cylinders and dump the remaining 9 ounces of my three bottles in. That will sit for another 12 hours or so since my boy has cub scouts in the evening, and then I am going to sacrifice some SuperTech with an oil change to get the 45 ounces of B12 out and then pray to whichever Japanese God will listen that she fires up again. After that I will swap the oil out again once the new spark plugs arrive.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Don't forget some fogging oil or little bit of the SuperTech on top of pistons to help create a seal and maybe a bit of lubrication before actually cranking it.

Rough stretch on the Camry.

What year and trim is the Pilot?

 

[skaughtz]

Don't forget some fogging oil or little bit of the SuperTech on top of pistons to help create a seal and maybe a bit of lubrication before actually cranking it.

Rough stretch on the Camry.

What year and trim is the Pilot?

Thanks. I think I am going to take a table spoon of SuperTech into each cylinder and crank it by hand before starting it with the plugs out to blow out any carbon/B12/oil. Then I am going to hit it with some tubing on the end of my shop vac just to be safe. The last thing I want to do after all of this is hydrolock the stupid thing.

Pliot is a 2018 Touring. It has more bells and whistles than I know what to do with, but the wife is happy. $21.5k out of the door. I never thought I would buy a used car with 100k miles on it, but that is the state of the used market right now. I also wanted to get something before the hurricane totaled vehicles hit the market... and I imagine that there are going to be quite a few. What sold me on this particular car was that I am 98% certain that she was a lease. The CarFax showed that it got every maintenance service at the same dealership it came from. Oil and filter every 6,500 miles (which I'm sure is the Honda maintenance minder), differential and transfer fluid changes, etc. So at least I know that it was maintained well, especially through Honda's MyGarage service records. Plus, the transmission was replaced at 86k, so the replacement 9-speed only has 18k miles on it. I just put a VCM muzzler on it yesterday, which, while I can't say for certain, I wouldn't be surprised if the VCM damaged the transmission through the torque converter like the previous generations of VCM have been known to do. For $140 I figure it can only help. Either way, I hate car payments but now I can take the Camry offline to fix some of her problems.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

If you didn't already head over to Piloteers.org for many other answers to questions. I now at least 5 of us here are over there also. Is it AWD or FWD? Guy right now over there has a SVCM in the classifieds for $65. The 9 speed is actually the better of the trannies unlike the 6 speed in my EX-L.

 

[skaughtz]

If you didn't already head over to Piloteers.org for many other answers to questions. I now at least 5 of us here are over there also. Is it AWD or FWD? Guy right now over there has a SVCM in the classifieds for $65. The 9 speed is actually the better of the trannies unlike the 6 speed in my EX-L.

AWD. I have not had a chance to try it out compared to FWD but hopefully I will be happy to have it should it snow this year.

And Piloteers is bookmarked for me, too. That is where I got clued into the whole VCM conversation.

As for the Camry, I didn't get out to her until 10am this morning but I dumped the remaining 9 ounces of B12 into the cylinders. My last check at 4pm there was still liquid in every cylinder, and quite a bit in cylinder 1. I am just going to let it soak overnight until tomorrow afternoon when I will change the oil, blow out the cylinders, and try to get her to start. I am going to let her idle for 20 or 30 minutes and then maybe take her on a drive down to put gas in her. Then I just have to wait for the new plugs to arrive, do another oil change, and then hopefully see a reduction in oil consumption.

 

[skaughtz]

Hm. It has been almost 24 hours since I last added B12 and cylinders 1 and 3 still have liquid in them. Is that more likely to indicate that the rings are still completely stuck/encased and not allowing anything past them, or that they are free and not allowing anything past them? I won't be back to check on them again for another 6 or 7 hours, but from the looks of it I doubt that they will be empty by then.

 

[AdmiralYoda]

Thanks for doing this...I am in the same boat with my 2016 Mazda CX-5, though only about 0.5 quarts per 1k miles or so. I started with the B12 piston soak and am now doing the HPL EC30 run. I'll probably do a treatment of BG EPR and then repeat the whole thing again.

The fact that the B12 is staying in the cylinder is a good thing, the rings are sealing. You don't need to add more if the liquid is just sitting in there. The pistons that are draining aren't sealing as well so keep adding more.

When you are done vacuum or blow as much leftover B12 as you can out of the cylinders and then add some motor oil in each cylinder. Let the oil sit for a couple hours, then rotate the engine by hand again and then try and vacuum/blow that out as well. Add fresh oil to the engine and then fire her up! It may take a while to get started since the pistons are wet and it will need to build up some compression.

Take it for a good long drive after this and get the engine nice and hot. If you want to go full Captain Overkill...try another round of BG EPR and then another OCI of good oil with HPL EC30 cleaner. If this does reduce your oil consumption, consider doing it all again one more time.

Your pistons and plugs look like you are burning a bunch of oil, which is to be expected. I bet those cylinders will look much cleaner after the B12. I'd put those plugs back in after the piston soak and then replace them in a couple thousand miles when things are all cleaned up.

Post more updates!!!!!

 

[Sequoiasoon]

I'm glad someone is enjoying this, haha. I have two more OCIs worth of data sets on the consumption that include BG EPR to share, but figured I would do that when I finish the soak. In the meantime, the same car has been through the ringer. At some point the battery light came on, and after changing out the battery and then the alternator, the light still comes on 10 seconds after starting, so it must be some corrosion or something somewhere along the circuit because after hours poking and prodding everything I could think of with a multimeter the actual charging system seems fine. Then, a month ago this happened:

I had multiple cars that the ground location on fender well from battery gets rusty. From new there are only a couple threads on the bolt that cut/clean the paint and over time corrode.

My son's Forte was so rusted the bolt snapped when we tried to get it off to clean it up. His horn didn't work sometimes, radio would reset, lights flickered. The cable was corroded and everything rusty. We had to drill the bolt out out anyway but used a tap to chase the threads and dremel to clean the paint where cable contacts. I use Kopr-Shield when I reassemble them. The new cable/bolt and that method fixed all his electrical issues.

I've been doing the same to all my vehicles normally at first battery service/replace if not earlier

For the Pilot do the ground bolt mod in case you ever need to jump it. https://www.piloteers.org/threads/jump-staring-a-car-with-the-pilot-sucks.96786/