How low to run the heat before the pipes burst?

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Chuck1986

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I got a letter today stating my heating bills are going up 23% later this year. I'm very cheap and hate stuffing those greedy wallets with more $$ so I'd like to keep my heat as low as possible without my pipes bursting. Right now I currently run it at 60...how low would it have to be for the pipes to burst?

Also...I live in an apartment so in the unfortunate event that my pipes burst, would the landlord be responsible for paying to fix them? Or would I lose my deposit?
 
Do you live there? If so, it can get awful uncomfortable (think getting out of a shower or something), and could even get you sick. The body will adapt, to some point...

There has to be a decent density change to cause the pipes to burst. I believe ice is the least dense just below freezing. Id guess that you actually need to get to freezing, and there to be enough removal of latent heat to freeze the contents before it bursts. That can be a tough thing, but it is all dependent upon the ambient temperature.

I stuck a gallon jug of distilled water in my unheated, uninsulated garage during a cold spell to see if it would freeze. Even after a few days where it never went over 32, it never got cold enough inside the enclosure to freeze the jug. Granted there is a lot more mass in one location to freeze, but no freezing.

We generally exist with our thermostat at 63. 60 can be pretty uncomfortable. 50-55 will keep the pipes from freezing, but let me know hw comfortable you find it!
 
normally the lowest setting on your thermostat is 55. it also depends where your pipes run - through interior walls or walls that are exposed to the outside. when I kept my vacation home set to the lowest setting (55 degrees) I never had a problem with broken pipes. my dad actually turned off his heat in his apartment in the winter (he's a snowbird) and yes, his pipes froze. I'm sure the apartment complex was not happy, but I do not believe that they charged him for the damage.
 
Originally Posted By: tomcat27
normally the lowest setting on your thermostat is 55. it also depends where your pipes run - through interior walls or walls that are exposed to the outside. when I kept my vacation home set to the lowest setting (55 degrees) I never had a problem with broken pipes. my dad actually turned off his heat in his apartment in the winter (he's a snowbird) and yes, his pipes froze. I'm sure the apartment complex was not happy, but I do not believe that they charged him for the damage.


Agreed. We have a cabin in the CO mountains that experiences -30F routinely. It's not on a well - has water from the town of Fairplay. We keep the water on and turn the thermostat all the way down when we're gone and haven't had any problems. All pipes near walls are insulated with a ton of pipe insulation.

You could turn it down to the thermostats lowest setting and likely not have a problem if any pipes near walls are insulated, or you open cabinet doors to get warm air to pipes. That's probably even overkill unless you get a cold snap where temps remain below 0 for an extended period.
 
I set my thermostat at 60 during the day and 55 at night when we go to bed. I live in So Cal, and the heater rarely on with these temperatures.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Do you live there? If so, it can get awful uncomfortable (think getting out of a shower or something), and could even get you sick. The body will adapt, to some point...

There has to be a decent density change to cause the pipes to burst. I believe ice is the least dense just below freezing. Id guess that you actually need to get to freezing, and there to be enough removal of latent heat to freeze the contents before it bursts. That can be a tough thing, but it is all dependent upon the ambient temperature.

I stuck a gallon jug of distilled water in my unheated, uninsulated garage during a cold spell to see if it would freeze. Even after a few days where it never went over 32, it never got cold enough inside the enclosure to freeze the jug. Granted there is a lot more mass in one location to freeze, but no freezing.

We generally exist with our thermostat at 63. 60 can be pretty uncomfortable. 50-55 will keep the pipes from freezing, but let me know hw comfortable you find it!


Now I feel like an idiot for leaving it at 60 when I went home for my 2-week winter break! I'm going to experiment with 58 for a bit and see how that goes...I'm trying to keep my heating bill less than $50/month. (My apartment is 1080 square feet).

I'd put it down to 56 but stepping out of bed or the shower is pure pain when it's cold.

Oh and I noticed the ambient temp reads 2 degrees lower than what I set my thermostat at...I'm not getting that fixed cuz if my pipes burst, I can hold the landlord accountable on the fact they're renting me a place with a faulty thermostat.
 
Turn that expensive furnace OFF!! Go outside and get some wood and one of those fireplace inserts...now if you dont have a fireplace just prop it up on a chair next to the window and stuff some galvanized flex pipe over the top and run it out the window. HEAT SOLVED.

NOW LET'S SAVE SOME CASH ON THE ELECTRIC. Unplug everything. Go to Walmart and get a bunch of extension cords and run them into the common areas or even chop a hole into the wall and wire them into the neighbors outlets. ELECTRIC SOLVED

Next up...get a garden hose and park next to a guy in a Caddy or Suburban with a big gas tank...just siphon off 5-8 gallons a day...they won't notice. HIGH GAS PRICES SOLVED

Now if you need more easy to DIY methods to save money just let me know.

But do get the correct drain plug
13.gif
 
That's odd since natural gas prices are actually way DOWN this winter.

We live in a place with radiators, no control over it but at least we're not paying for it. Oh wait, it's so frickin' cold in here that we had to buy an electric space heater! Cheap ash slumlords.
 
No right answer on this one. It depends on too many variables. If you're on a slab with no pipes in outside walls (including no hose bibs) as long as the interior itself doesn't drop below freezing you're fine. On the other hand if they run pipes in the attic like they do in AL (probably against code in PA because of the colder climate), and it drops to record lows (like say 8F) you better hope the pipes are well insulated and keep it above say 60. And if they break, unless you're negligent by turning the heat off then it's your landlord's problem. When I lived in NY my landlord had in the lease that the heat should never be set below 55F.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I believe ice is the least dense just below freezing.


water's highest density is at 4C. It expands as temperature decreases beyond that point.
 
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The shower thing is solved by heat lamps that you use to dry and get dressed under. They suck some wattage, but you're only using them for the drying/dressing event.

This energy heat thing is one annoying bug. I'm a loin cloth type. If I ever get the latitude to build new, it will be a bunker surrounded by sun rooms on appropriate sides.
 
What do you use for heat? Gas or Electric?

I can't believe in a apartment the heat should be that bad.
 
Originally Posted By: ZZman
What do you use for heat? Gas or Electric?

I can't believe in a apartment the heat should be that bad.


"That bad" for some is having a Free After Rebate oil cost more than it did last time.
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Chuck1986
I got a letter today stating my heating bills are going up 23% later this year. I'm very cheap and hate stuffing those greedy wallets with more $$ so I'd like to keep my heat as low as possible without my pipes bursting. Right now I currently run it at 60...how low would it have to be for the pipes to burst?

Also...I live in an apartment so in the unfortunate event that my pipes burst, would the landlord be responsible for paying to fix them? Or would I lose my deposit?


You're really not going to want to spend money on heat now that you just blew $4 on a drain plug!
 
One thing you need to remember is that water pipes are often in an outside wall. The cavity they are in may be much colder than the house temperature. You are at the mercy of how careful the builder was about stuffing insulation between the pipes and outer sheathing. Also, poor workmanship can leave cold air leak into the wall cavity. At one time, we had some trouble with pipes freezing, but they never burst keeping the house at 72 degrees. It never happened again after I added insulation and caulking in 1985.
 
Labman is right, also mice can mess with the insulation. Often a 1" hole is bored in wood for a 1/2" pipe... that's how and where they get in. They have the whole wall to play in but get the stuff right by the pipes.

Do you have hot water heat? I've had THAT freeze. I run a woodstove but when it gets below 5'F or so outside I make sure the furnace runs too every couple hours. And put the setback thermostat on "hold" so it doesn't coast for many hours.

Are you in a building shared with other tenants with common walls? If so your being colder will have them share their heat with you.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Labman is right, also mice can mess with the insulation. Often a 1" hole is bored in wood for a 1/2" pipe... that's how and where they get in. They have the whole wall to play in but get the stuff right by the pipes.

Do you have hot water heat? I've had THAT freeze. I run a woodstove but when it gets below 5'F or so outside I make sure the furnace runs too every couple hours. And put the setback thermostat on "hold" so it doesn't coast for many hours.

Are you in a building shared with other tenants with common walls? If so your being colder will have them share their heat with you.
wink.gif



Yes I do have hot water heat.
You just gave me a fabulous idea: run my heat as low as I can tolerate, but get up and turn the thermostat up for only a few minutes every couple hours just to keep things flowing.

My apartment is connected to other apartments (mine has a basement and upstairs)...I'm also at the end of the block, so only one of my walls is shared. I never thought about the heat sharing! Gosh, your posts are so insightful.

Another thing I will be doing this weekend is sealing all door and window cracks with paper towels and duct tape. The only door I'll be using to enter/exit is the one to the garage - so each time it's opened a gush of cold air won't come in.
 
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Originally Posted By: AcuraTech
That's odd since natural gas prices are actually way DOWN this winter.

They're about the same as last January, at least around here.
 
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