Honda/Multi-Vehicle ATF Comparison Chart

[Hall]

Originally Posted by RevelationLion
...there are real world experiences of people getting rid of DW-1 and using Maxlife, Amsoil and Redline with success, not to mention peace of mind. These are thoughtful Honda owners who find DW-1 to simply be inadequate.

Good for them and I would never tell them not to use the ATF they choose, but their experiences prove nothing about DW-1 being "inadequate".

 

[RevelationLion]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by RevelationLion
...there are real world experiences of people getting rid of DW-1 and using Maxlife, Amsoil and Redline with success, not to mention peace of mind. These are thoughtful Honda owners who find DW-1 to simply be inadequate.

Good for them and I would never tell them not to use the ATF they choose, but their experiences prove nothing about DW-1 being "inadequate".


If DW-1 wasn't inadequate, then the Odyssey owners would not have looked elsewhere for a solution. That is indeed proof. From my own personal experience, DW-1 was burnt in less than 3 years and 20,000 miles, and that's with Lubegard red in the fluid too. Therefore, the Odyssey owners' quest for a better fluid is a valid one based my own personal experience.

 

[RevelationLion]

Originally Posted by Quakish

Over on the Odyssey forum, there are real world experiences of people getting rid of DW-1 and using Maxlife, Amsoil and Redline with success, not to mention peace of mind. These are thoughtful Honda owners who find DW-1 to simply be inadequate.


Quote
i have an 03 Odyssey bought used with 100,000km and the oil jet mod/recall was done by the dealer way back when. used Z-1 for a few years then changed to Valvoline Maxlife D/M (red jug) and it's been night and day difference. Should have switched to Maxlife sooner. With Z-1 there was always a bit of a rough 1-2 shift and don't feel a thing with Maxlife. No noticeable gunk on the drain magnet when i change the trans fluid either.


Your testimonial is consistent with other Odyssey owners. Maxlife is a good synthetic ATF at a great value. I do wish the viscosity was slightly higher though.


Quote
i also have a 2016 Acura RDX and i just did a 4x drain and fill using DW-1. I have no issues with DW-1 as it seems to do the job in that car with no issues. I'll just do a drain and fill every 25K to keep things fresh and keep to the DW-1 in that car.


I personally would not run DW-1 for 25K with just a D/F unless your RDX is just a grocery-getter. Perhaps, you're hanging onto DW-1 for warranty reasons, and that I understand. But, if you're using your RDX for towing or stop-n-go traffic, I would reconsider. Either shorten your D/F's dramatically or move on to a more robust quality synthetic ATF. Just my opinion.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by RevelationLion
If DW-1 wasn't inadequate, then the Odyssey owners would not have looked elsewhere for a solution.
People look for alternatives all the time and for many reasons.
Originally Posted by RevelationLion
That is indeed proof. From my own personal experience, DW-1 was burnt in less than 3 years and 20,000 miles, and that's with Lubegard red in the fluid too. Therefore, the Odyssey owners' quest for a better fluid is a valid one based my own personal experience.

If you call that "proof", fine. We'll agree to disagree. You aren't running DW-1 either so I'm not sure how you continue to claim this. I'm not a chemist. Maybe you are. You mixed DW-1 with another fluid.

 

[AC1DD]

The problem isn't with the fluid, it was with the transmissions on my heavier and six cylinder models that came along later after mid 90s.

DW-1 is fine.

 

[Gebo]

jayjr1105,
Thanks for doing this. For me, it is very informative and substantiates the importance of using Honda OEM ATF.

 

[RevelationLion]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson

If DW-1 wasn't inadequate, then the Odyssey owners would not have looked elsewhere for a solution.

Quote
People look for alternatives all the time and for many reasons.

Again, these Honda owners looked elsewhere because DW-1 is inadequate for heavy use.
Originally Posted by RevelationLion
That is indeed proof. From my own personal experience, DW-1 was burnt in less than 3 years and 20,000 miles, and that's with Lubegard red in the fluid too. Therefore, the Odyssey owners' quest for a better fluid is a valid one based my own personal experience.


Quote
If you call that "proof", fine. We'll agree to disagree. You aren't running DW-1 either so I'm not sure how you continue to claim this. I'm not a chemist. Maybe you are. You mixed DW-1 with another fluid.

My reman transmission came with DW-1 and it's being phased out withe Redline via D/F's. It was installed about 3 months ago and the D/F's began after 800 miles. I'm at 73.7% of Redline now. I'm no chemist either, but it doesn't take one to figure it out. Lastly, if zinc was such a special additive for an ATF, why don't any of the aftermarket fluid companies utilize it in any of their formulations? Even the DW-1 clones don't utilize zinc in their ATF's.

 

[RevelationLion]

Originally Posted by AC1DD
The problem isn't with the fluid, it was with the transmissions on my heavier and six cylinder models that came along later after mid 90s.

DW-1 is fine.

Honda designed both your transmissions and ATF, so how can you legitimately put confidence in either? Honda specified that one must use the well established inferior Z-1 in those heavy vehicles. Now you're told to use DW-1.

 

[AC1DD]

Originally Posted by RevelationLion
Originally Posted by AC1DD
The problem isn't with the fluid, it was with the transmissions on my heavier and six cylinder models that came along later after mid 90s.

DW-1 is fine.

Honda designed both your transmissions and ATF, so how can you legitimately put confidence in either? Honda specified that one must use the well established inferior Z-1 in those heavy vehicles. Now you're told to use DW-1.



Definitely makes you wonder, however the problem was the defectively designed transmission units in those cars the DW-1 fluid works perfectly in other models.

 

[RevelationLion]

Originally Posted by AC1DD
Originally Posted by RevelationLion
Originally Posted by AC1DD
The problem isn't with the fluid, it was with the transmissions on my heavier and six cylinder models that came along later after mid 90s.

DW-1 is fine.

Honda designed both your transmissions and ATF, so how can you legitimately put confidence in either? Honda specified that one must use the well established inferior Z-1 in those heavy vehicles. Now you're told to use DW-1.



Definitely makes you wonder, however the problem was the defectively designed transmission units in those cars the DW-1 fluid works perfectly in other models.


I agree with you that the transmissions were defectively designed, but these poorly designed transmissions ran throughout the Honda lineup, from small to larger vehicles. I do wonder if a better, less friction-modified and more robust fluid would have resulted in a better outcome. As I see it, DW-1 is just a lower viscosity Z-1, perhaps with a slightly better base fluid.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by RevelationLion
As I see it, DW-1 is just a lower viscosity Z-1, perhaps with a slightly better base fluid.

They switched from a conventional base to synthetic. Otherwise, the formulation/additives remained the same it appears.

 

[RevelationLion]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by RevelationLion
As I see it, DW-1 is just a lower viscosity Z-1, perhaps with a slightly better base fluid.

They switched from a conventional base to synthetic. Otherwise, the formulation/additives remained the same it appears.


I have read varying opinions whether it's synthetic or not. I personally suspect that it isn't. And yes, the additives are the same with Z-1 & DW-1.

 

[Quakish]

Originally Posted by RevelationLion
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by RevelationLion
As I see it, DW-1 is just a lower viscosity Z-1, perhaps with a slightly better base fluid.

They switched from a conventional base to synthetic. Otherwise, the formulation/additives remained the same it appears.


I have read varying opinions whether it's synthetic or not. I personally suspect that it isn't. And yes, the additives are the same with Z-1 & DW-1.


The DW-1 up here in the great white north is marked "fully synthetic" on the bottle

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by Quakish
The DW-1 up here in the great white north is marked "fully synthetic" on the bottle

"Like"

 

[RevelationLion]

Originally Posted by Quakish
Originally Posted by RevelationLion
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by RevelationLion
As I see it, DW-1 is just a lower viscosity Z-1, perhaps with a slightly better base fluid.

They switched from a conventional base to synthetic. Otherwise, the formulation/additives remained the same it appears.


I have read varying opinions whether it's synthetic or not. I personally suspect that it isn't. And yes, the additives are the same with Z-1 & DW-1.


The DW-1 up here in the great white north is marked "fully synthetic" on the bottle


In Canada, yes, but not in the US.

 

[92saturnsl2]

I bought my '04 Odyssey with about 120k miles and have used Wolf's Head Universal Full Synthetic (made by Amalie) since that time, about 80k miles. For a transmission with a reputation of being made of glass, this fluid has been great, as the transmission performs flawlessly. Of all the automatic transmission equipped cars I've driven, this Honda 5 speed tranny has the best shift feel (and performance/gearing) of any.

I did back to back drain & fills initially and have done them every 25k since. I replace the inline transmission filter every other change.

Specs for this fluid are here.

I might send in a VOA of this stuff when I get a chance. It was priced about $5 a quart on Amazon when I bought it, though I've noticed the price ratcheting up since then.

 

[blufeb95]

Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2


I did back to back drain & fills initially and have done them every 25k since. I replace the inline transmission filter every other change.


See they screwed the 07-10 Odyssey owners, put the filter deep inside the tranny where it can only be changed during a rebuild, unlike the 05 and 06 which had a cartridge filter in an externally accessible housing or inline like they were on the older ones.

 

[ctechbob]

Originally Posted by blufeb95

Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2


I did back to back drain & fills initially and have done them every 25k since. I replace the inline transmission filter every other change.


See they screwed the 07-10 Odyssey owners, put the filter deep inside the tranny where it can only be changed during a rebuild, unlike the 05 and 06 which had a cartridge filter in an externally accessible housing or inline like they were on the older ones.



That's one thing Honda has been really good about, waffling back and forth where they put the filter on their 5 speeds. My 03 Accord, not bad to get to, takes a little work, but easily doable in an hour or so start to finish. My TL, nope, behind the torque converter.. Why they thought that was a good idea I'd like to know. Then there's some with it inline in a hose. I get making a rock catcher, strainer type 'filter' as a 'during rebuild only' part, but from what I understand the one in my TL is a pleated cartridge type filter just like my accord, just impossible to get to.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by 2010Civic
Supports my decision to stick with OEM fluid.

Explain how? Is the static, dynamic coefficients of friction significantly different? Cooling properties? Seal conditioners.

 

[AC1DD]

Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by 2010Civic
Supports my decision to stick with OEM fluid.

Explain how? Is the static, dynamic coefficients of friction significantly different? Cooling properties? Seal conditioners.


In any case if you drive normally you can't go wrong with DW-1. Also there is the little fact that they use proprietary add pack items that nobody else uses.