Automated calculator for the A_Harman index, VII content, and base-oil viscosity

[High Performance Lubricants]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by bulwnkl
I've lost track of which threads are what, so I'm asking here:

Gokhan, Why do you suppose that HPL's SAE 20 has noticeable VII in it? Related: Why do you suppose their 10W20 has essentially none?
Those things are what your spreadsheet claims, anyway.

Obviously for a monograde oil, A_Harman index ~ 1 and VII = (1−A_Harman index) ∕ 2 ~ 0.

HPL PCMO 20W-50 has VII ~ −3%, which is also obviously wrong.

HPL PCMO 10W-20 is probably also a SAE 20 monograde.

There are two possible explanations:

1. Specs of HPL oils significantly vary from batch to batch, and they used different batches to test for KV and HTHS. This would explain why some HPL monogrades have VII ~ 0 as expected, while others don't make sense. You need to use the same batch for KV and HTHS for the calculation to work.

2. ASTM D341 viscosity extrapolation fails for some of the base oils used in HPL oils. Normally ASTM D341 works very well for a monograde oil without a VII. However, for some PAO base oils, especially mPAO base stocks HPL uses, it's not clear how well ASTM D341 works.


Hello Gokhan,

I can answer some of these questions for you but at the same time I will leave you with another.

We do not calculate anything we publish on our data sheets. We have all of the instruments in-house required for SAE J300 and publish what we measure.

We absolutely use the same batch of oil for all of the testing. It would be bad lab discipline to do otherwise.

You are correct that both our SAE 20 as well as our 10W20 are monogrades with no VI Improver.

What we are experiencing is a real but not yet explained synergy in our formulation. We have repeated the tests (again with the same batch) ant the results repeat. We have run the standards through our instruments to verify the calibration another are right on the money.

There definitely is a discrepancy from D-341 vs what we are actually measuring.

So the real question is what is the synergistic relationship that is working in our favor? I cannot yet answer that question but it does repeat in our lab.

David

 

[Gokhan]

Hi David,

You guys are making impressive top-of-the-line oils! It's so great that Dr. Leslie R. Rudnick, who has the authoritative book on synthetics, works for you!

Best,

Gokhan

 

[High Performance Lubricants]

Gokhan,

Thank you for asking about the PCMO 20W50 published on our PDS. We ran the tests again on that oil and everything repeated except the HTHS. We then ran HTHS across the range of products and the HTHS did repeat. For whatever reason we did not get the correct result initially when running that product. Providing truthful and accurate data is important to us. I appreciate that your calculation project did trap this error and you shared that with us. We will correct that value on our PDS so you will have the correct data for your spreadsheet.

David Ward

 

[sloinker]

Just ordered that book by Dr. Leslie R. Rudnick . I figured everyone can use nearly a thousand pages of light technical reading.

 

[High Performance Lubricants]

Working with Les I can vouch that he has a legitimate passion to do his part to maintain the information available in our field. He spends countless hours on these books. It is a valuable contribution to our industry. Les is one of the smartest people I have ever met and a true gentleman at the same time.

David Ward

 

[wwillson]

Les is one of the smartest people I have ever met and a true gentleman at the same time.

I can second that!

 

[jurko]

I use the table for information rather than rating oils.
That said, for better wear protection, I would look for an oil with a higher high-temperature, full-shear viscosity (HTFS, not HTHS), which is labeled as BO DV150 (= HTFS) in my table, BO meaning base oil. That's because HTHS is usually fixed by the oil spec or oil type and the variation in insignificant -- 2.6 - 2.7 cP for a 0W-20 and 3.0 - 3.2 cP for an ILSAC 5W-30 -- but HTFS can vary greatly. For most people HTFS will make a bigger impact on wear than HTHS because HTFS has a direct effect on wear vs. HTHS acting more like an insurance against wear. Of course, HTFS and HTHS are directly related to each other through the A_Harman index; however, as I said HTFS varies a lot more than HTHS for a given oil spec or oil type as the A_Harman index varies, and you can use the table to find an oil with a significantly higher HTFS for a given oil spec or oil type.
For engine-deposits control, a smaller VII content (= a larger A_Harman index) will help.

First let me thank you for all you do and the knowledge you share with all of us here on BITOG. Very much appreciated.

I saved your Base oil viscosity sheet in my Drive and selected all the 5W-30 oils which I've mostly ran in all my cars as long as I remember.
Currently I use QSUD 5W-30 which is somewhere in the middle on the list based on HTFS which you describe as important factor for wear protection. Should I consider to move up to some of the top 5 oils on the list to provide more wear protection than current QSUD?
Thank you!

5W-30 Oils	Density	KV40	KV100	VI​	HTHS​	Harman​	VII​	HTFS​	D341 a	D341 b	KV150	DV150	BO KV40	BO KV100
RL HP Euro	0.877	69.00	11.60	164​	3.70	0.940​	2.99%​	3.00	7.75	3.00	4.89	3.94	52.53	8.83
Ravenol VMP	0.853	68.20	11.50	164	3.60	0.947	2.63%​	2.98	7.75	3.00	4.86	3.80	53.43	9.01
Motul 8100 X-clean+	0.850	71.70	11.70	158	3.60	0.946	2.72%	2.96​	7.83	3.03	4.88	3.81	55.78	9.10
RL HP	0.875	71.00	11.90	166	3.70	0.921	3.95%	2.84	7.71	2.98	5.01	4.02	50.18	8.41
Mobil 1 ESP Formula	0.850	72.80	12.10	164	3.58	0.906	4.72%	2.64	7.70	2.98	5.07	3.95	48.66	8.09
PP Euro SN +	0.841	71.70	11.90	163	3.50	0.909	4.53%	2.61	7.74	2.99	4.99	3.85	48.58	8.06
Valvoline Adv Synth SN	0.853	60.10	10.20	158	3.20	0.941	2.97%	2.59	7.97	3.09	4.35	3.40	45.82	7.78
HPL PCMO	0.862	64.63	10.77	158	3.33	0.926	3.69%	2.59	7.92	3.07	4.55	3.60	46.57	7.76
Amsoil Series 3000 HDD	0.856	70.10	11.70	163	3.50	0.907	4.67%	2.59	7.75	3.00	4.92	3.86	47.04	7.85
Castrol Edge VW 504	0.851	66.00	11.60	173	3.50	0.903	4.84%	2.57	7.59	2.94	4.97	3.88	43.76	7.69
Valvoline Adv Synth XL-III	0.851	68.10	11.70	168	3.50	0.903	4.86%	2.57	7.66	2.96	4.97	3.88	45.08	7.74
Rotella Multivehicle	0.845	75.00	12.10	159	3.50	0.899	5.04%	2.55	7.80	3.02	5.02	3.89	49.06	7.91
Shell Helix Ultra ECT	0.852	73.95	12.02	159	3.50	0.895	5.24%	2.52	7.79	3.01	5.00	3.91	47.72	7.76
Shell Helix Ultra AV-L	0.848	67.90	11.80	170	3.50	0.895	5.24%	2.52	7.60	2.94	5.03	3.91	43.81	7.61
PP SN	0.839	53.90	9.80	170	3.10	0.941	2.97%	2.51	7.80	3.03	4.28	3.30	41.08	7.47
Amsoil Sig Series DHD	0.852	72.30	12.00	162	3.50	0.890	5.49%	2.49	7.72	2.99	5.03	3.93	45.85	7.61
Mobil 1 ESP	0.846	64.00	11.72	181	3.50	0.888	5.62%	2.48	7.43	2.87	5.08	3.94	40.25	7.37
PP Euro L SN	0.836	69.00	12.10	174	3.50	0.884	5.79%	2.46	7.52	2.91	5.16	3.96	42.91	7.53
Shell Helix Ultra ECT C3	0.836	69.02	12.11	174	3.50	0.883	5.84%	2.46	7.52	2.91	5.17	3.96	42.79	7.51
Motul 8100 X-clean EFE	0.851	70.10	12.10	169	3.50	0.873	6.34%	2.41	7.58	2.93	5.14	4.01	42.09	7.26
Schaeffer's Sup. 9000	0.860	63.60	11.00	167	3.32	0.896	5.20%	2.40	7.75	3.00	4.70	3.71	41.14	7.12
Idemitsu SP/GF-6	0.849	55.61	9.49	155	2.97	0.937	3.14%	2.38	8.10	3.15	4.07	3.17	41.83	7.14
PP Euro AV	0.853	70.80	12.20	171	3.50	0.865	6.75%	2.37	7.57	2.92	5.17	4.05	41.43	7.14
Valvoline Daily Protection SP	0.857	70.00	11.30	154	3.30	0.891	5.43%	2.36	7.94	3.07	4.71	3.70	44.57	7.19
Eneos Hyper Multi	0.850	53.00	9.50	165	3.00	0.930	3.52%	2.36	7.92	3.08	4.14	3.23	38.68	6.93
Amsoil XL	0.855	62.90	11.10	171	3.30	0.882	5.88%	2.31	7.66	2.97	4.77	3.74	38.88	6.86
Motul 8100 Eco-Lite	0.847	67.00	11.40	166	3.30	0.879	6.04%	2.30	7.74	3.00	4.83	3.75	40.99	6.97
QSUD 5W-30	0.840	60.00	10.80	173	3.20	0.888	5.61%	2.27	7.65	2.96	4.68	3.60	37.76	6.80
Amsoil Sig Series ASL	0.858	59.70	10.30	162	3.11	0.896	5.21%	2.24	7.89	3.06	4.41	3.47	38.60	6.66
Valvoline ME SN +	0.850	55.00	9.80	165	3.00	0.904	4.78%	2.21	7.88	3.06	4.26	3.32	36.63	6.53
Pennzoil Yellow Bottle	0.860	63.40	10.50	158	3.10	0.887	5.67%	2.19	8.00	3.10	4.43	3.50	39.73	6.58
Valvoline Adv Synth SP	0.853	61.00	10.50	162	3.10	0.883	5.87%	2.17	7.86	3.05	4.49	3.51	37.75	6.50
Idemitsu SN/GF-5	0.848	62.00	10.79	166	3.14	0.873	6.33%	2.16	7.77	3.01	4.62	3.60	37.25	6.48
Ravenol DXG	0.846	63.30	10.70	160	3.10	0.880	6.02%	2.16	7.89	3.06	4.54	3.52	38.77	6.55
Rotella Gas Truck	0.836	66.40	11.70	173	3.20	0.833	8.34%	2.05	7.57	2.93	5.01	3.84	35.39	6.24
PUP	0.841	56.30	10.30	173	3.00	0.865	6.77%	2.03	7.68	2.98	4.50	3.47	32.91	6.02
Eneos Hyper S	0.850	58.14	10.37	169	3.00	0.857	7.14%	2.00	7.76	3.01	4.49	3.50	33.23	5.93
Castrol Edge	0.856	62.64	10.70	162	3.04	0.850	7.52%	2.00	7.85	3.04	4.56	3.58	34.99	5.98
Castrol GTX Magnatec	0.860	62.00	10.46	159	3.00	0.856	7.21%	2.00	7.94	3.08	4.44	3.51	35.30	5.95
Mobil 1 vanilla	0.855	61.70	11.00	172	3.10	0.833	8.34%	1.98	7.65	2.96	4.75	3.72	32.89	5.86
Mobil 1 EP	0.851	59.80	10.60	169	3.00	0.840	7.98%	1.94	7.74	3.00	4.57	3.57	32.54	5.77
Mobil 1 EP HM	0.849	63.00	11.00	169	3.00	0.818	9.11%	1.87	7.72	2.99	4.71	3.67	32.20	5.62
Mobil 1 AP	0.851	67.52	11.24	160	3.00	0.812	9.40%	1.86	7.84	3.04	4.73	3.69	33.97	5.66
Mobil 1 HM	0.856	72.00	12.10	165	3.10	0.776	11.21%	1.84	7.67	2.96	5.09	4.00	33.07	5.56
Mobil 1 Truck & SUV	0.852	66.60	11.50	169	3.00	0.784	10.79%	1.79	7.67	2.97	4.90	3.83	31.23	5.39

​

 

[Gokhan]

First let me thank you for all you do and the knowledge you share with all of us here on BITOG. Very much appreciated.

I saved your Base oil viscosity sheet in my Drive and selected all the 5W-30 oils which I've mostly ran in all my cars as long as I remember.
Currently I use QSUD 5W-30 which is somewhere in the middle on the list based on HTFS which you describe as important factor for wear protection. Should I consider to move up to some of the top 5 oils on the list to provide more wear protection than current QSUD?
Thank you!

5W-30 Oils	Density	KV40	KV100	VI​	HTHS​	Harman​	VII​	HTFS​	D341 a	D341 b	KV150	DV150	BO KV40	BO KV100
RL HP Euro	0.877	69.00	11.60	164​	3.70	0.940​	2.99%​	3.00	7.75	3.00	4.89	3.94	52.53	8.83
Ravenol VMP	0.853	68.20	11.50	164	3.60	0.947	2.63%​	2.98	7.75	3.00	4.86	3.80	53.43	9.01
Motul 8100 X-clean+	0.850	71.70	11.70	158	3.60	0.946	2.72%	2.96​	7.83	3.03	4.88	3.81	55.78	9.10
RL HP	0.875	71.00	11.90	166	3.70	0.921	3.95%	2.84	7.71	2.98	5.01	4.02	50.18	8.41
Mobil 1 ESP Formula	0.850	72.80	12.10	164	3.58	0.906	4.72%	2.64	7.70	2.98	5.07	3.95	48.66	8.09
PP Euro SN +	0.841	71.70	11.90	163	3.50	0.909	4.53%	2.61	7.74	2.99	4.99	3.85	48.58	8.06
Valvoline Adv Synth SN	0.853	60.10	10.20	158	3.20	0.941	2.97%	2.59	7.97	3.09	4.35	3.40	45.82	7.78
HPL PCMO	0.862	64.63	10.77	158	3.33	0.926	3.69%	2.59	7.92	3.07	4.55	3.60	46.57	7.76
Amsoil Series 3000 HDD	0.856	70.10	11.70	163	3.50	0.907	4.67%	2.59	7.75	3.00	4.92	3.86	47.04	7.85
Castrol Edge VW 504	0.851	66.00	11.60	173	3.50	0.903	4.84%	2.57	7.59	2.94	4.97	3.88	43.76	7.69
Valvoline Adv Synth XL-III	0.851	68.10	11.70	168	3.50	0.903	4.86%	2.57	7.66	2.96	4.97	3.88	45.08	7.74
Rotella Multivehicle	0.845	75.00	12.10	159	3.50	0.899	5.04%	2.55	7.80	3.02	5.02	3.89	49.06	7.91
Shell Helix Ultra ECT	0.852	73.95	12.02	159	3.50	0.895	5.24%	2.52	7.79	3.01	5.00	3.91	47.72	7.76
Shell Helix Ultra AV-L	0.848	67.90	11.80	170	3.50	0.895	5.24%	2.52	7.60	2.94	5.03	3.91	43.81	7.61
PP SN	0.839	53.90	9.80	170	3.10	0.941	2.97%	2.51	7.80	3.03	4.28	3.30	41.08	7.47
Amsoil Sig Series DHD	0.852	72.30	12.00	162	3.50	0.890	5.49%	2.49	7.72	2.99	5.03	3.93	45.85	7.61
Mobil 1 ESP	0.846	64.00	11.72	181	3.50	0.888	5.62%	2.48	7.43	2.87	5.08	3.94	40.25	7.37
PP Euro L SN	0.836	69.00	12.10	174	3.50	0.884	5.79%	2.46	7.52	2.91	5.16	3.96	42.91	7.53
Shell Helix Ultra ECT C3	0.836	69.02	12.11	174	3.50	0.883	5.84%	2.46	7.52	2.91	5.17	3.96	42.79	7.51
Motul 8100 X-clean EFE	0.851	70.10	12.10	169	3.50	0.873	6.34%	2.41	7.58	2.93	5.14	4.01	42.09	7.26
Schaeffer's Sup. 9000	0.860	63.60	11.00	167	3.32	0.896	5.20%	2.40	7.75	3.00	4.70	3.71	41.14	7.12
Idemitsu SP/GF-6	0.849	55.61	9.49	155	2.97	0.937	3.14%	2.38	8.10	3.15	4.07	3.17	41.83	7.14
PP Euro AV	0.853	70.80	12.20	171	3.50	0.865	6.75%	2.37	7.57	2.92	5.17	4.05	41.43	7.14
Valvoline Daily Protection SP	0.857	70.00	11.30	154	3.30	0.891	5.43%	2.36	7.94	3.07	4.71	3.70	44.57	7.19
Eneos Hyper Multi	0.850	53.00	9.50	165	3.00	0.930	3.52%	2.36	7.92	3.08	4.14	3.23	38.68	6.93
Amsoil XL	0.855	62.90	11.10	171	3.30	0.882	5.88%	2.31	7.66	2.97	4.77	3.74	38.88	6.86
Motul 8100 Eco-Lite	0.847	67.00	11.40	166	3.30	0.879	6.04%	2.30	7.74	3.00	4.83	3.75	40.99	6.97
QSUD 5W-30	0.840	60.00	10.80	173	3.20	0.888	5.61%	2.27	7.65	2.96	4.68	3.60	37.76	6.80
Amsoil Sig Series ASL	0.858	59.70	10.30	162	3.11	0.896	5.21%	2.24	7.89	3.06	4.41	3.47	38.60	6.66
Valvoline ME SN +	0.850	55.00	9.80	165	3.00	0.904	4.78%	2.21	7.88	3.06	4.26	3.32	36.63	6.53
Pennzoil Yellow Bottle	0.860	63.40	10.50	158	3.10	0.887	5.67%	2.19	8.00	3.10	4.43	3.50	39.73	6.58
Valvoline Adv Synth SP	0.853	61.00	10.50	162	3.10	0.883	5.87%	2.17	7.86	3.05	4.49	3.51	37.75	6.50
Idemitsu SN/GF-5	0.848	62.00	10.79	166	3.14	0.873	6.33%	2.16	7.77	3.01	4.62	3.60	37.25	6.48
Ravenol DXG	0.846	63.30	10.70	160	3.10	0.880	6.02%	2.16	7.89	3.06	4.54	3.52	38.77	6.55
Rotella Gas Truck	0.836	66.40	11.70	173	3.20	0.833	8.34%	2.05	7.57	2.93	5.01	3.84	35.39	6.24
PUP	0.841	56.30	10.30	173	3.00	0.865	6.77%	2.03	7.68	2.98	4.50	3.47	32.91	6.02
Eneos Hyper S	0.850	58.14	10.37	169	3.00	0.857	7.14%	2.00	7.76	3.01	4.49	3.50	33.23	5.93
Castrol Edge	0.856	62.64	10.70	162	3.04	0.850	7.52%	2.00	7.85	3.04	4.56	3.58	34.99	5.98
Castrol GTX Magnatec	0.860	62.00	10.46	159	3.00	0.856	7.21%	2.00	7.94	3.08	4.44	3.51	35.30	5.95
Mobil 1 vanilla	0.855	61.70	11.00	172	3.10	0.833	8.34%	1.98	7.65	2.96	4.75	3.72	32.89	5.86
Mobil 1 EP	0.851	59.80	10.60	169	3.00	0.840	7.98%	1.94	7.74	3.00	4.57	3.57	32.54	5.77
Mobil 1 EP HM	0.849	63.00	11.00	169	3.00	0.818	9.11%	1.87	7.72	2.99	4.71	3.67	32.20	5.62
Mobil 1 AP	0.851	67.52	11.24	160	3.00	0.812	9.40%	1.86	7.84	3.04	4.73	3.69	33.97	5.66
Mobil 1 HM	0.856	72.00	12.10	165	3.10	0.776	11.21%	1.84	7.67	2.96	5.09	4.00	33.07	5.56
Mobil 1 Truck & SUV	0.852	66.60	11.50	169	3.00	0.784	10.79%	1.79	7.67	2.97	4.90	3.83	31.23	5.39

​

You're welcome!

Note that my table only calculates the base-oil viscosity (HTFS) and and VII content. It doesn't say much about the base-oil quality and anything about the additive package. Therefore, it shouldn't be considered as an overall rating of oils.

I'm a little surprised that you run an ACEA A5/B5 oil in a VW Golf engine. I don't know the oil recommendation for this engine, but I thought it was VW 504.00, which has a higher viscosity. If you drive hard or fast, yes, selecting an oil with a higher HTFS will certainly help reduce engine wear. Selecting an oil with a low VII content can help reduce engine and turbocharger deposits.

 

[jurko]

You're welcome!

Note that my table only calculates the base-oil viscosity (HTFS) and and VII content. It doesn't say much about the base-oil quality and anything about the additive package. Therefore, it shouldn't be considered as an overall rating of oils.

I'm a little surprised that you run an ACEA A5/B5 oil in a VW Golf engine. I don't know the oil recommendation for this engine, but I thought it was VW 504.00, which has a higher viscosity. If you drive hard or fast, yes, selecting an oil with a higher HTFS will certainly help reduce engine wear. Selecting an oil with a low VII content can help reduce engine and turbocharger deposits.

Thank you for taking time to reply Gokhan.
I did run Castrol Edge 5W-30 C3 VW 504.00 for a while after I bought the car. I read on here that QSUD is a good oil and when I saw it one day on WM website last year for around $13 for 5 QT jugs I bought 7 of them. I think they made mistake because as soon as I bought it they immediately raised it to $18 and it's been like this since then.
I don't drive hard and fast anymore like I did when I was lot younger.
Car never sees over 65 MPH or much over 3.000 RPM during acceleration.
The oil capacity is 6 QT and I change it every 6 months which usually comes out to around 4K-5K miles.

Here are the numbers for QSUD. They look ok to me compare to some other 5W-30 oils I looked at. Like you said.
Is it sufficient for 1.8L TSI Gen3 170 HP Turbo/DI, 9.5:1 compression ratio engine? Given my OCI and driving habits probably ok and the price was good.

 

[Gokhan]

Thank you for taking time to reply Gokhan.
I did run Castrol Edge 5W-30 C3 VW 504.00 for a while after I bought the car. I read on here that QSUD is a good oil and when I saw it one day on WM website last year for around $13 for 5 QT jugs I bought 7 of them. I think they made mistake because as soon as I bought it they immediately raised it to $18 and it's been like this since then.
I don't drive hard and fast anymore like I did when I was lot younger.
Car never sees over 65 MPH or much over 3.000 RPM during acceleration.
The oil capacity is 6 QT and I change it every 6 months which usually comes out to around 4K-5K miles.

Here are the numbers for QSUD. They look ok to me compare to some other 5W-30 oils I looked at. Like you said.
Is it sufficient for 1.8L TSI Gen3 170 HP Turbo/DI, 9.5:1 compression ratio engine? Given my OCI and driving habits probably ok and the price was good.
View attachment 45851

Well, its BMEP = 0.12566419 × 270 N⋅m / 1.798 L = 18.9 bar, which is on the high side, but it's OK. There are cars with BMEP in the low-to-mid-20s. I think a "stout" GF-6 5W-30 like QSUD or PP is A-OK unless the car is driven hard. VAS used to be very stout, but they changed the viscosity/VII content in SP/GF-6, probably because fuel-economy requirements have increased in SP/GF-6.

 

[jurko]

Well, its BMEP = 0.12566419 × 270 N⋅m / 1.798 L = 18.9 bar, which is on the high side, but it's OK. There are cars with BMEP in the low-to-mid-20s. I think a "stout" GF-6 5W-30 like QSUD or PP is A-OK unless the car is driven hard. VAS used to be very stout, but they changed the viscosity/VII content in SP/GF-6, probably because fuel-economy requirements have increased in SP/GF-6.

Thank you. All the best.

 

[jurko]

One last question Gokhan if I may.
I am starting to have change of heart and ready to move on from QSUD I mentioned to some more appropriate and stout oil.
If you owned the Golf I have what would you care more about? Engine wear or engine and turbocharger deposits?
Based on that what oil would you select from the list I posted Here

Also, since I purchased this car I've been filling up with E0 (clear gas) due to reading somewhere that it lessens the IVD. Is this really true?
Thanks again.

 

[Gokhan]

One last question Gokhan if I may.
I am starting to have change of heart and ready to move on from QSUD I mentioned to some more appropriate and stout oil.
If you owned the Golf I have what would you care more about? Engine wear or engine and turbocharger deposits?
Based on that what oil would you select from the list I posted Here

Also, since I purchased this car I've been filling up with E0 (clear gas) due to reading somewhere that it lessens the IVD. Is this really true?
Thanks again.

I think the top-rated oils in your list are all very good. HTFS (base-oil viscosity) = 3.0 cP is basically as stout as a SAE 30 monograde in terms of how strong the base-oil viscosity is. Ravenol VMP 5W-30 with USVO (ultrastrong-viscosity oil) technology is PAO-based; so, you're getting more oil for your buck in comparison to non-PAO based oils, as PAO base oil is more expensive than Group III or III+/GTL. Note that it has lower CCS, MRV, and Noack thanks to PAO. Typically CCS × Noack is an indication of base-oil quality for a given oil viscosity, the lower the multiplied value being the better. It has VW 504.00, which should be the recommended spec for your car. I see that they have updated the datasheet, and I've calculated HTFS = 2.83 cP for the latest datasheet. Likewise, their non-PAO-based Ravenol HLS 5W-30 has a reduced HTFS = 2.45 cP according to the latest datasheet now. You can typically expect a longer OCI with a PAO-based oil, but the additive package also makes a difference in that. You may want to recalculate the other oils according to their latest datasheets.

https://www.blauparts.com/blog/ravenol-usvo-oil-technology.html

I would worry about both wear and deposits. I know ethanol-free gasoline will improve the fuel-economy by 3% in comparison to E10. I don't know if it makes a difference in IVD. Ethanol itself shouldn't cause deposits; so, I doubt it does make a difference.

 

[jurko]

I think the top-rated oils in your list are all very good. HTFS (base-oil viscosity) = 3.0 cP is basically as stout as a SAE 30 monograde in terms of how strong the base-oil viscosity is. Ravenol VMP 5W-30 with USVO (ultrastrong-viscosity oil) technology is PAO-based; so, you're getting more oil for your buck in comparison to non-PAO based oils, as PAO base oil is more expensive than Group III or III+/GTL. Note that it has lower CCS, MRV, and Noack thanks to PAO. Typically CCS × Noack is an indication of base-oil quality for a given oil viscosity, the lower the multiplied value being the better. It has VW 504.00, which should be the recommended spec for your car. I see that they have updated the datasheet, and I've calculated HTFS = 2.83 cP for the latest datasheet. Likewise, their non-PAO-based Ravenol HLS 5W-30 has a reduced HTFS = 2.45 cP according to the latest datasheet now. You can typically expect a longer OCI with a PAO-based oil, but the additive package also makes a difference in that. You may want to recalculate the other oils according to their latest datasheets.

https://www.blauparts.com/blog/ravenol-usvo-oil-technology.html

I would worry about both wear and deposits. I know ethanol-free gasoline will improve the fuel-economy by 3% in comparison to E10. I don't know if it makes a difference in IVD. Ethanol itself shouldn't cause deposits; so, I doubt it does make a difference.

I did recalculated all Ravenol oils after someone from Sweden pointed out to me that they made changes in formulation in 2020 and that my numbers in the first post Here were incorrect.
Another member also mentioned that Valvoline Advanced XL-III fits that category so I added it.
Here's updated list.

I will go ahead with your recommendation even though the cost of oil change will be higher.
I am sure that the cost premium will eventually return benefits in the form of better protection and longevity of the Turbo/DI engine.
The saying "You get what you pay for" applies to many things we buy and if the long term use benefits are significant then the cost is irrelevant.

 

[Gokhan]

I did recalculated all Ravenol oils after someone from Sweden pointed out to me that they made changes in formulation in 2020 and that my numbers in the first post Here were incorrect.
Another member also mentioned that Valvoline Advanced XL-III fits that category so I added it.
Here's updated list.
View attachment 46243
I will go ahead with your recommendation even though the cost of oil change will be higher.
I am sure that the cost premium will eventually return benefits in the form of better protection and longevity of the Turbo/DI engine.
The saying "You get what you pay for" applies to many things we buy and if the long term use benefits are significant then the cost is irrelevant.

@OVERKILL is a big fan of Ravenol and PAO.

I don't know how good Ravenol's actual performance is though. An oil simply being PAO-based doesn't mean that it's a good oil, and marketing claims are not always justified either. Therefore, I don't know if the price premium is justified.

Perhaps you can go with the top-rated Motul 8100 X-Clean+. Both its VII content and HTFS are very impressive. You can also go with Mobil 1 ESP, which contains some polyol ester (POE) that will help reduce the turbocharger deposits and IVD. Both are cheaper than Ravenol VMP, and both have VW 504.00. Mobil 1's research and development is hard to beat, and boutique oils like Ravenol may fall short in optimizing an oil's overall composition and performance.

 

[jurko]

@OVERKILL is a big fan of Ravenol and PAO.

I don't know how good Ravenol's actual performance is though. An oil simply being PAO-based doesn't mean that it's a good oil, and marketing claims are not always justified either. Therefore, I don't know if the price premium is justified.

Perhaps you can go with the top-rated Motul 8100 X-Clean+. Both its VII content and HTFS are very impressive. You can also go with Mobil 1 ESP, which contains some polyol ester (POE) that will help reduce the turbocharger deposits and IVD. Both are cheaper than Ravenol VMP, and both have VW 504.00. Mobil 1's research and development is hard to beat, and boutique oils like Ravenol may fall short in optimizing an oil's overall composition and performance.

I did read on here quite a few times that M1 ESP is good oil and even Sonofjoe mentions it in his posts (replies)
Sounds good to me. Thanks.

 

[Gokhan]

I did read on here quite a few times that M1 ESP is good oil and even Sonofjoe mentions it in his posts (replies)
Sounds good to me. Thanks.

Given Mobil 1's research and development efforts, POE content in Mobil 1 ESP and FS oils for deposit control, decent performance in the HTFS/VII calculator, and plethora of approvals, Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 is probably the most failsafe oil for a Volkswagen, and its price is not as steep as the boutique oils'.

 

[jurko]

Given Mobil 1's research and development efforts, POE content in Mobil 1 ESP and FS oils for deposit control, decent performance in the HTFS/VII calculator, and plethora of approvals, Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 is probably the most failsafe oil for a Volkswagen, and its price is not as steep as the boutique oils'.

Ok, so M1 ESP it is, final decision. It is readily available at WM, Amazon, Napa and other locations for around $10 per 1 QT.
I'll put it in to Price Watch app and see if it comes up on sale sometimes.

 

[sloinker]

Ok, so M1 ESP it is, final decision. It is readily available at WM, Amazon, Napa and other locations for around $10 per 1 QT.
I'll put it in to Price Watch app and see if it comes up on sale sometimes.
View attachment 46322

It goes on sale at Napa a few times a year for $5.49 a quart. I have transitioned most of my vehicles to it. I am sticking with the Red Line Euro 5W30 for my commuter and the type of driving/environment it sees, for now.

 

[jurko]

It goes on sale at Napa a few times a year for $5.49 a quart. I have transitioned most of my vehicles to it. I am sticking with the Red Line Euro 5W30 for my commuter and the type of driving/environment it sees, for now.

Thanks, that's almost 50% off wow. I have Napa 3 blocks from me so I'll keep a eye on it.
How do you like that 15 VW Sportwagen? Does it have 1.8 TSI like mine?
I love that car. I keep track of every gas fill up and mileage in Google sheet and I am averaging 45.8 MPG. on 87 E0 gas.
I also put on aluminum dog bone and springs from VWR which lower the car about 11/2 inch and it rides like a go cart.
Air filter is Afe dry.