M1 and VRP 5W-30, Delo 5W-40 Volatility Results - Dec 2024

JAG

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The test was conducted on Dec 30, 2024. Temperature was set on the oven to what looked like ~ 420 F. A thermocouple reading on an oil with that same oven setting on Dec 27 said 431 F, when was ambient temperature was 47 F. Ambient temp. at start of this test was 60 F. Quaker State 5W-40 was included as the reference oil. All oils meet API SP, except for Delo that meets CK-4. I believe the causes of variation in trends are varying wind, varying ambient temperatures, and varying positions of the oils throughout the test. The oils were rotated right after each hour. If/when I do future volatility tests, I’m going to put a large box with an open top and bottom around the oven to block the wind, which should maintain a more consistent temperature. These variations are why in one of my other volatility threads, I said I would include error bars if it were straightforward to do in an honest and simplistic way. The measurement errors are small in comparison to error-inducing variations caused by unequal conditions above each oil. I will be switching over from doing volatility tests to only deposit and oxidation resistance tests.

Summary and discussion of the results: M1 5W-30 and VRP 5W-30 have extremely similar volatility. At hour 2, their cumulative losses were identical at 0.045 grams, which is 4.5% of their initial weights. Their volatilities are modestly respectable for a synthetic 5W-30. Nothing special there…mostly or entirely Group III of the non-GTL type and a typical viscosity index. Delo 5W-40’s volatility is disappointingly high. I bet it has a hefty dose of fairly shear-stable VIIs, requiring a relatively low viscosity base oil mix, raising its volatility. There could be another explanation like having a significant dumbbell blend of fairly low and fairly high base oils. As expected QS 5W-40 easily has the lowest volatility of these oils. Its Noack is believed to be 5.7%.

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It matters because the more volatile the oil, the more VOC's or volatile organic compounds evaporate from the oil and form deposits in the internal of the engine. They can also over the long run damage emission components.

The performance of the Delo disappoints me.
 
So is this to show the superiority of on oil over the other is a specific test?

A few questions and comments:

Why did you compare 5w30 and 5w40 oils?
Why not all 5w30 or all 5w40?

Your second graph shows change relative to QS.....but it, at least in my opinion, is a very slimy salesmans type graph from someone who likes to look at lines and see results. Whether QS is superior in one way or the other is whatever, but the second graph is pretty slimy.
 
either one, please elaborate
Importance of volatility is a very complicated matter and there is still a lot of argument about it, as this thread indicates. This thread has posts by some very knowledgeable members.

I have measured volatility because it can provide insights into the formulation of the oil, when combined with other data about the formulation like viscosity at 100 C, viscosity index, HTHS viscosity, base oil types used, etc. Many oils no longer have published Noack volatilities and that secrecy bothers me, further motivating me to measure it.
 
So is this to show the superiority of on oil over the other is a specific test?

A few questions and comments:

Why did you compare 5w30 and 5w40 oils?
Why not all 5w30 or all 5w40?

Your second graph shows change relative to QS.....but it, at least in my opinion, is a very slimy salesmans type graph from someone who likes to look at lines and see results. Whether QS is superior in one way or the other is whatever, but the second graph is pretty slimy.
It shows the measured weight losses for four different oils in a test lasting four hours with losses measured after each hour.

A generous member sent me samples of oil and this test mixed 5W-30 and 5W-40, while another set of oils he sent were done in another test. I care about volatility obviously but I am just a regular person with a personal life and job. I am not going to attempt to test a large swath of available oils in multiple viscosity grades, ensuring I always test the same viscosity grades together.

Slimy salesman’s type graph, you say. That is an interesting conclusion. Haha. Its data shows the ratio of oil cumulative oil losses as a function of time. There is no slime in that.
 
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Importance of volatility is a very complicated matter and there is still a lot of argument about it, as this thread indicates. This thread has posts by some very knowledgeable members.

I have measured volatility because it can provide insights into the formulation of the oil, when combined with other data about the formulation like viscosity at 100 C, viscosity index, HTHS viscosity, base oil types used, etc. Many oils no longer have published Noack volatilities and that secrecy bothers me, further motivating me to measure it.
Yeah, that's been bugging me since they started doing it.
 
The test was conducted on Dec 30, 2024. Temperature was set on the oven to what looked like ~ 420 F. A thermocouple reading on an oil with that same oven setting on Dec 27 said 431 F, when was ambient temperature was 47 F. Ambient temp. at start of this test was 60 F. Quaker State 5W-40 was included as the reference oil. All oils meet API SP, except for Delo that meets CK-4. I believe the causes of variation in trends are varying wind, varying ambient temperatures, and varying positions of the oils throughout the test. The oils were rotated right after each hour. If/when I do future volatility tests, I’m going to put a large box with an open top and bottom around the oven to block the wind, which should maintain a more consistent temperature. These variations are why in one of my other volatility threads, I said I would include error bars if it were straightforward to do in an honest and simplistic way. The measurement errors are small in comparison to error-inducing variations caused by unequal conditions above each oil. I will be switching over from doing volatility tests to only deposit and oxidation resistance tests.

Summary and discussion of the results: M1 5W-30 and VRP 5W-30 have extremely similar volatility. At hour 2, their cumulative losses were identical at 0.045 grams, which is 4.5% of their initial weights. Their volatilities are modestly respectable for a synthetic 5W-30. Nothing special there…mostly or entirely Group III of the non-GTL type and a typical viscosity index. Delo 5W-40’s volatility is disappointingly high. I bet it has a hefty dose of fairly shear-stable VIIs, requiring a relatively low viscosity base oil mix, raising its volatility. There could be another explanation like having a significant dumbbell blend of fairly low and fairly high base oils. As expected QS 5W-40 easily has the lowest volatility of these oils. Its Noack is believed to be 5.7%.
This would be more helpful if you put in better testing notes such as how much oil you started with etc.
 
Yeah, that's been bugging me since they started doing it.
I think that the NOACK number is important, the lower the better. Of course, with everything, there seems to be a trade off. I am amazed how some on here either disagree, of dont have much an option. How does the backside of valve covers get gunked up? Oil really never flows there. How does the upper portion of an oil dipstick get stained? Oil sure never gets there.

Evaporation I suppose, but what fuel and water?

I have been a big valvoline user for years on a few vehicles, and one thing is in common with those, and dark, stained upper dipstick.

I have been thinking about a change.
 
It shows the measured weight losses for four different oils in a test lasting four hours with losses measured after each hour.

A generous member sent me samples of oil and this test mixed 5W-30 and 5W-40, while another set of oils he sent were done in another test. I care about volatility obviously but I am just a regular person with a personal life and job. I am not going to attempt to test a large swath of available oils in multiple viscosity grades, ensuring I always test the same viscosity grades together.

Slimy salesman’s type graph, you say. That is an interesting conclusion. Haha. Its data shows the ratio of oil cumulative oil losses as a function of time. There is no slime in that.
I assume you have the test equipment and testing cost you no more than time?
 
It shows the measured weight losses for four different oils in a test lasting four hours with losses measured after each hour.

A generous member sent me samples of oil and this test mixed 5W-30 and 5W-40, while another set of oils he sent were done in another test. I care about volatility obviously but I am just a regular person with a personal life and job. I am not going to attempt to test a large swath of available oils in multiple viscosity grades, ensuring I always test the same viscosity grades together.

Slimy salesman’s type graph, you say. That is an interesting conclusion. Haha. Its data shows the ratio of oil cumulative oil losses as a function of time. There is no slime in that.
no offense intended.....the second graph just looks misleading.....

if i were to send tou some oils, would you test them the same way?
 
no offense intended.....the second graph just looks misleading.....

if i were to send tou some oils, would you test them the same way?
No problem. Maybe you already understand what the second graph shows but in case not, I will give an analogy for what that data shows. Joe lifted 4 pounds of dirt from hours 0 to 1 and 3 pounds from hours 1 to 2. Jane lifted 5 pounds, then 4 pounds. The graph’s value at hour 2 for the ratio of the cumulative weight that Jane lifted, relative to Joe, is (5+4)/(4+3) = 9/7.

Thank you for the offer but at this point I will only consider testing the volatility of an exotic oil whose Noack isn’t published. I want to focus the testing on deposit and oxidation resistance.

First post should have said initial oil weights were 1.000 grams, like they’ve been for all volatility tests that I’ve made threads for.
 
No problem. Maybe you already understand what the second graph shows but in case not, I will give an analogy for what that data shows. Joe lifted 4 pounds of dirt from hours 0 to 1 and 3 pounds from hours 1 to 2. Jane lifted 5 pounds, then 4 pounds. The graph’s value at hour 2 for the ratio of the cumulative weight that Jane lifted, relative to Joe, is (5+4)/(4+3) = 9/7.

Thank you for the offer but at this point I will only consider testing the volatility of an exotic oil whose Noack isn’t published. I want to focus the testing on deposit and oxidation resistance.

First post should have said initial oil weights were 1.000 grams, like they’ve been for all volatility tests that I’ve made threads for.
No I understand what it showed completely, I just don't agree with the way it is shown.

As to the brands......I would be interested in Royal Purple HPS and HMX, offer stands. Which were you thinking on testing?
 
Intresting. So is it anyone's guess which oil could or would perform better than all of these?

But usually with oils if there is a gain to be had there is a loss somewhere else lol.

I run vanilla mobil 1 5w30 in my DD impala with the 3.4L. Has 93K miles on it and on the backside of the valve cover I have noticed some black crud starting to form and I actually wiped it with my finger and it came out but looks like over time that would get hard and stick permanently on the cover. This test could be my explanation of that...
 
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