Yeah in that case I wouldn’t use anything other than a dedicated race oil, something like Red Line or HPL. I’d explain to them what I’m doing and I’d follow their advice.
Mobil 1 has (mostly) improved the HTFS viscosity and VII content with API SP
- Thread starter Gokhan
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They'd be considered boutique in the PCMO space however. Yes, their bread and butter is industrial and commercial, and I'd argue they punch above their weight class there, but for the sake of classification in the space we are generally discussing on here, they'd fall under the boutique moniker. One of the biggest differences (beyond product quality) between them and everybody else in that space is that they don't participate in the ludicrous marketing practices that are so prevalent, which is refreshing. They aren't telling you that their nano-assmaster-reacharound-9000 additive gives you 400% gas mileage improvement, reverses wear and drops 4 seconds off your 1/4 mile time, lol.
Hey Gokhan,
Something about the current Mobil 1 0W20 EP (GF-6, Dexos 1 GEN 3, API SP, Triple Action Product) makes me think it a downgrade as compared to it’s “majority PAO” predecessor.
Flashpoint is now reduced to 222C as compared to 235C for 5W20 EP. Pour Point is now -45C as compared to -48C for 5W20 EP. KV @100C of 8.8 vs 8.0 for 5W20 EP. Everything is the opposite of what I would expect.
Is the current 5W20 EP now the preferred product over its “watered down” cost cutting, 0W20 EP counterpart? What do your calculator results tell you? I have 2 hybrid vehicles used to a Mobil 1 0W20 EP diet.
Something about the current Mobil 1 0W20 EP (GF-6, Dexos 1 GEN 3, API SP, Triple Action Product) makes me think it a downgrade as compared to it’s “majority PAO” predecessor.
Flashpoint is now reduced to 222C as compared to 235C for 5W20 EP. Pour Point is now -45C as compared to -48C for 5W20 EP. KV @100C of 8.8 vs 8.0 for 5W20 EP. Everything is the opposite of what I would expect.
Is the current 5W20 EP now the preferred product over its “watered down” cost cutting, 0W20 EP counterpart? What do your calculator results tell you? I have 2 hybrid vehicles used to a Mobil 1 0W20 EP diet.
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Deleted member 89374
Fine...
If you want to get technical, yes, they fit the definition of boutique oil perfectly in the PCMO, and even racing space.
Try me.
Are you an electrical engineer working on Atom chips? The VLI89 isn't exactly from yesterday either.
He was let go.
I've already been too specific, this thread is now showing up in my first page of Google search for that errata. This one isn't exactly the same but it's got a similar effect. EE yes. We are a customer of Intel and used an embedded variant of these in a line of surgical equipment. I'm sure you can tease out the handful of potential employers. No need to worry, it's been designed out. I did say it was a few years ago, time flies.
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Deleted member 89374
What's your fascination with motor oil?
I have a history of owning cars with engines that eat rod bearings. What's yours?
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Deleted member 89374
I came here a few years ago to learn more about maintenance, what oils to use, etc. Unfortunately, more than anything, I found several echo chambers. However, I met some great people, and decided to stick around.
Actually, I'm more fascinated with ATF and gear oils than motor oil. Imagine my surprise when I figured out in how many transmissions Mobil 1 LV ATF HP works, or when I discovered how great TES-668 is? In fact, TES-668 shares the friction modification technology with Mobil 1 LV ATF HP. Currently, I'm running Mobil 1 LV ATF HP on a Hyundai 6-speed and a ZF 8HP70 transmission, and it works beautifully. I'm thinking about "taking one for the team," and trying TES-668 in the Hyundai next.
The universality of ATF is interesting. I was surprised to find how many manual transmissions spec ATF or similar. I'm probably going to change the fluid out of my 6MT M2 at some point to see if I can improve the 2nd gear shift. It uses a DCTF according to the cross references. I didn't necessarily expect that DCT synchros and MT synchros would want the same friction modifiers.
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Deleted member 89374
M1 LV ATF HP and all TES-668 fluids use the latest and greatest add pack from Infineum. When it comes to ATF, the add pack also contains the friction modifiers. For example, Red Line D4, D6, ATF+, AMSOIL ATF & ATL, all use the same Lubrizol add pack, and I hate how firm the shifts are. Infenium friction modifiers make shifts 100x better. The Hyundai transmission isn't particularly great, but the M1 ATF makes it feel like it's a luxury car, even when I step on it.
As for the second gear shift, I hope it's not a synchronize that's acting up. You should definitively try M1 LV ATF HP (blue label) or TES-668. Probably NAPA has Castrol TranSynd TES-668 for a very good price per gallon.
It's probably the synchro, but it's not defective per se, just notchy and slow to let you in. They all do it and it's done it from day 1. BMW just has no idea how or won't spend the cash to get ZF to make a gearbox that shifts like the ones they supply to Porsche. I'm still under warranty since I have 7k miles, but I'll look into that M1 ATF. Edy and I argued some about the exact factory fill but it cross references with Pentosin FFL-3.
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Deleted member 89374
What's the factory fill and what does it call for if you don't mind me asking?
The OEM part is just listed as BMW MTF-LT-5. The transmission is ZF (G)S6-45BZ. If you look at ZF's guide they show the fluid to be Fuchs Titan (Pentosin) FFL-3 and list a few cross references. I don't think anyone really knows what the factory fill 100% is except that it meets the ZF specs. I suspect it is the Pentosin though.
Pentosin MTF LT-5 Manual Transmission Fluid (also Porsche PDK FFL-3)
OEM MTF-LT5 transmission fluid for 2011+ 6-speed manual transmission. GL-4 rated and 75W80.
Most people report improvement with any fluid change. Most use OEM fluid, Red Line DCTF, or Motul DCTF. It's supposedly a "lifetime fill" gearbox. Slightly suspicious since this exact same gearbox used in the BMW 1M was not.
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Deleted member 89374
Red Line has good MTF fluids. They also have a DCT fluid: https://www.redlineoil.com/dctf-dual-clutch-transmission-fluid.The OEM part is just listed as BMW MTF-LT-5. The transmission is ZF (G)S6-45BZ. If you look at ZF's guide they show the fluid to be Fuchs Titan (Pentosin) FFL-3 and list a few cross references. I don't think anyone really knows what the factory fill 100% is except that it meets the ZF specs. I suspect it is the Pentosin though.
Pentosin MTF LT-5 Manual Transmission Fluid (also Porsche PDK FFL-3)
OEM MTF-LT5 transmission fluid for 2011+ 6-speed manual transmission. GL-4 rated and 75W80.www.bimmerworld.com
Most people report improvement with any fluid change. Most use OEM fluid, Red Line DCTF, or Motul DCTF. It's supposedly a "lifetime fill" gearbox. Slightly suspicious since this exact same gearbox used in the BMW 1M was not.
There must be a reason why ZF went with DCT fluid, and I think it has something to do with slipperiness. I believe that Mobil 1 LV ATF HP might be a tad too slippery for your manual transmission, not allowing the synchronizer to engage correctly. I would definitively try the Red Line DCTF before going to an ATF.
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Yeah I had planned to go with either OEM, Red Line DCTF, or the Motul High Torque DCTF they recommended via email. Looking at the BMW MTF bottle, it has the same indentations as the Febi Bilstein fluid bottle, so I assume the stuff the dealer sells is that.
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Deleted member 89374
I'd go with the Motul for sure. They use Infinium as their additive supplier, and have a good reputation for high performance products.
I appreciate the input btw. Back to the original topic... I'm probably going to use M1 FS 0W-40 until I am out of warranty or hit the track since no GPF. However, the ESP X3 is interesting stuff. I'm sure it's good stuff if Porsche is throwing it in the GT3, but it's certainly trending toward the opposite approach to HPL, Red Line, and even the PP Euro / Shell Helix 5W-40.
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Deleted member 89374
Sorry for getting into it with you earlier. TBH, I was just having a bit of fun going back and forth. Thoug, I rather help if I can than get into an argument.
Before that, does the 2nd gear feel like it's grabbing/hanging?
Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is very good stuff. So is the 5W-40 and 5W-50. IMHO, it's as good as it gets.
It's very advanced motor oil, that's for sure. Mobil is leading the way when it comes to low ash additives.
Same, I can be prickly too so I get it
. 2nd doesn't grab it just really does not want to let you in unless you pause. It's better when hot, but it's never great. If you try to force it and shift really fast it gives a slight grind, but I only tried that once. I don't know what it is about the designs that cause this, but my old Z4M did it and so does the old E46 M3 with the Getrag box. They like a short 1st gear so I guess the synchro is just given a tough job.
The 5W-40 is an option too. It's actually all their website still recommends for the S55 engine even though 0W-40 got LL-01 back and can clearly run LL-04 since it does in Europe. The website is so bad... I have to go back in time and pick a different car with the same engine just to get a result.
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