Honda dealer doesn't "believe" in the OLM

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As someone mentioned a little while ago, ask the dealer to send you a letter on dealership letterhead listing all the maintenance procedures where the manual is wrong and the dealer is right, then send a copy to the Honda regional office.

Then stand back.
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Pablo; I have a 2004 TL and use Amsoil 5-20 since the original fill. I started changing after 5000 miles and the Blackstone/Dyson tests showed the oil still had alot of life left. I then went to 8000 mile changes and the Blacksone/Dyson tests showed the oil still has some life and I could probably get 10,000, but I'm happy with 8000. BTW, I've never consumed any oil at all. I do use LC as well.
 
Our VCM equipped 2005 Odyssey only consumed a little oil when driven above 80 mph for a couple-hundred miles. Monster engine in that van, very flexible. Decided it was just too big and overly complicated for our needs, though. Someone got a great used van that had been taken care of.
 
In my 06 RSX, I changed at 2500 mi and had used about 1/3 quart. Since, I put 4k on Havoline 5w-20 with a shot of VSOT and burned maybe 1/6 of a quart. I drive it pretty hard. Long trips on the highway too. I don't expect to burn oil in this engine going forward.
 
Changed M-I every 8000 miles on my 94 V6 Accord,still surviving after 500,000+ miles with no engine work.
 
I'm not ragging on these guys, just making an observation. Change is hard for some, changing oil frequently is good if it helps the profit center.

2006 Honda Odyssey - bought new Dec 28, 2005 - now 3700 miles.

We received a professional gloss cover glove compartment sized booklet from the dealer (sorta disguised as something from HMC). Tells us we need to change the oil at 3750 miles....

quote:

The V6 Hondas are on a 3,750 mile service interval

When I asked "why?" Answer: "Because it's a V6"

I will now ignore the dealer and follow Honda Motor Corp. Well sorta, I'll change the oil myself soon with Amsoil XL 5W-20 and a Honeywell Framda filter, reset the OLM and then follow it. When I use up the Framda (I have 3 and may change midstream), I see about an oversized quality filter. See what's out there/EaO.
 
The dealer has a vested interest in getting you back in there for oil changes as often as possible.
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The Amsoil 5w20 you're going to use is their Group III stuff, right? Are you getting good feedback from customers who are using that oil? Any UOAs been posted?
 
I can't tell you how many friends and relatives I know that have 3000 mile oil changes stuck in their heads. This marketing from dealers, oil producers, and lube joints works. Overkill never got anyone in trouble but alot of people are throwing good money and oil down the drain. With the high quality of today's oils most people should run 5000 mile OCIs. Synthetic users may run double or triple that. Years ago when oil was not as good as now 3000 mile OCIs may have been a good general rule. Not any more. Old habits die hard.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Pablo:
I'm not ragging on these guys, just making an observation. Change is hard for some, changing oil frequently is good if it helps the profit center.

The vast majority of them would say the same exact thing.
The reasons for that is not profit.
The frequent oil changes is a sure way to establish a long term relationship with a customer that will keep coming back for things other than just oil changes after the warranty period is over.
This is when the dealers start making good profit of him/her.
 
Honda engines are not very "tight" on oil. When driven hard, they can burn massive amounts of oil, especially during the first 5K. Thus, considering how most drivers do not check their oil level, it does seem logical to recommend a more frequent drain interval, so the engine does not run on low oil levels for an extended period of time.

For example, we had one guy on AcuraZine who was not used to checking his oil. He happened to check his oil at 4,000 miles and found that he was 1.5-2 qts low.
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This was a 2005 TL with the 3.2L V6 engine.

It seems very common for Honda VTEC engines, even under normal driving, to burn 1 qt of oil every 5000 miles. If the oil drains are kept at 3750 or 5000 miles for 6-cyl and 4-cyls, respectively, at least the engines will not be running more than a quart low (generally) between oil changes. After all, another $30 for an extra oil change per year seems worth it instead of possibly causing additional wear to your engine caused by low oil levels.

One thing you have to love about GM engines is that they are generally very tight on oil. They burn little or no oil in between oil changes.

quote:

But seriously, a modern engine VTEC or not, is not supposed to burn any significant amount of oil during the regular OCI intervals.
A lot of Honda guys with the problem tend to drive their cars exceptionally hard, hitting VTEC from every stop light since it is such an intoxicating experience.

I agree with you to an extent.

It would not be unacceptable for a high-performance engine to burn 1 qt every 5K, correct? If the Maintenance Minder System recommended an oil drain every 7-8K, then the owner would be running 1.5 qts low toward the end of the drain interval.

Even the owners who drive their cars gently experience oil consumption. I know of another person who drove theirs gently, yet was 1/2 qt low at 3K.

My $0.02.

[ May 07, 2006, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: The Critic ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by The Critic:
One thing you have to love about GM engines is that they are generally very tight on oil. They burn little or no oil in between oil changes.

Until they blow an intake gasket
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But seriously, a modern engine VTEC or not, is not supposed to burn any significant amount of oil during the regular OCI intervals.
A lot of Honda guys with the problem tend to drive their cars exceptionally hard, hitting VTEC from every stop light since it is such an intoxicating experience.
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The engine has consumed ZERO oil. I mean NONE. Never had a vehicle like this, including GM's.

The XL 5W-20 Group III oil seems to be a good match with Honda mom driven engines. Plenty of good UOA's posted. All nice feedback so far. I think it's a great match with the Honda OLM. We are at 50% with 3700 miles, so it should indicate depletion at 5-7K(+?) miles.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Auto-Union:
In my 06 RSX, I changed at 2500 mi and had used about 1/3 quart. Since, I put 4k on Havoline 5w-20 with a shot of VSOT and burned maybe 1/6 of a quart. I drive it pretty hard. Long trips on the highway too. I don't expect to burn oil in this engine going forward.

Long trips on the highway is the easiest driving you can do.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Gurkha:
Changed M-I every 8000 miles on my 94 V6 Accord,still surviving after 500,000+ miles with no engine work.

Surely you had waterpump and timing belt replacements.....
None of my Honda's have every burned any oil, ever.
 
quote:

Honda engines are not very "tight" on oil. When driven hard, they can burn massive amounts of oil, especially during the first 5K. Thus, considering how most drivers do not check their oil level, it does seem logical to recommend a more frequent drain interval, so the engine does not run on low oil levels for an extended period of time.

My father and I have owned,

1975 Honda GL1000
1980 Honda Civic
1980 Honda Accord
1981 Honda GL1100
1982 Honda GL500
1983 Honda GL1200
1984 Honda Accord
1984 Honda CRX
1987 Honda Civic
1991 Honda CB750
1992 Honda Accord
1995 Honda VF750
1998 Honda CR-V
1999 Honda GL1500
1999 Honda CR-V
2001 Honda Civic
2004 Honda VTX1300
2006 Honda Civic

I may have forgotten one or two. Most of these hondas were purchased new, and I never noticed much oil consumption, especially in the first 5K miles. I guess I just got lucky....
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quote:

Originally posted by JTK:

quote:

Originally posted by vad:
..The vast majority of them would say the same exact thing.
The reasons for that is not profit.
The frequent oil changes is a sure way to establish a long term relationship with a customer that will keep coming back for things other than just oil changes after the warranty period is over.


How is that NOT profit? The oil change in itself is probably a money looser, but convincing owners to pay for other services and establishing repeat business is ALL about the profit. The oil change is a rediculously cheap and easy way to get you into the service bay.

G/luck
Joel


Isn't what I've said?
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My wife's 03 TL got 3k M1 0w-20 OCI's until I found bitog and then 5K mile oci's thereafter.

I am now using 5w-20 pennzoil at the suggestion of one the board's most respected experts.

This 3.2L honda engine has never EVER used a drop of oil between 5K mile OCI's.
 
I have over 73K miles on my 00 Honda Odyssey that I purchased brand new in March of 2000. I have not burned a bit of oil in that time. I now change my oil twice a year according to manufactures recommendation using Kendal 5w-30 and a Purolater Pure One filter. Great engine, very boring vehicle but useful with a family. Just my 2 pesos worth.
 
Guy's, I do not think that the 3000 mile brain washing is as deep as some think! The last industry report I saw wich was some time ago claimed that the average OCI in America is 9000 mile. If I rember correctly these numbers were collected by the quick lube facilities like Jiffy Lube, Fast Eddies, Pep Boys etc....... Now 9000 miles with dino 5W30 does not strike me as a lot of over kill in the market. The people that usualy do the 3000 mile OCI are people that do it them selfs or have a relative do it for them.

I will agree that 3000 mile OCI's are not the best use of our resources but I also do not like the broad over extended OCI that so many OEM's are recomendeding especialy with dino oil. I think that itis reckless to do more then a 6000 mile OCI with a GII or lesser base oil with no UOA base line to back it up. I think that in a lot of cases long term engine health might be at risk with some OLM systems and oil combinations!!

A person will almost never have a problem caused by oil with short oil change intervals. If UOA is used then I have no problem with extended drains. In the last couble of years we have seen oil related problems in many makes and models.

Personely I would love it if all motor oil sold in the USA had to be a GIII or higher. This would go a long way to help protect people from themselfs. It would especialy help people that purchased used cars.

I actualy know a guy who's uncle might change his oil 3 times dureing 120,000 miles. His uncle basicly does not change the oil as a matter or maintnece. He changes the oil after the vechile is broke in then he usualy just tops it off as it uses oil. When it hits 120,000 miles he trades it in or sells it. He lives in the Montains of Kentucky. Now if this were an isolated case I would not but much stock in it. I have unfortunately heard from several people that do this and they usualy get away with it no problem. In all cases the vechiles were trucks with the old chevy small block. The reason I mention this is because you can basicly make it out of the warranty period with most engine with out ever changeing the oil. So this means that you have to look at OCI as a means of controling the long term life cycle of the engine and it's performance dureing the expected life cycle. So we have to ask ourselfs what type of performance we expect and how long we expect that level of performance from the engine? What level of repairs are acceptable? How much money will be saved by extending the OCI. How much durability and reliability am I willing to potenialy sacrifice? How long do you need to own the vechile? Can I use any science based tool's to help me pick the best OCI to fit my needs?

None of the current extended oil change intervals supported by OEM's is going to hurt them while under warranty! In some cases depending on oil used and driveing cycle it might not hurt the powertrain in the long term either. I do though belive that most people would be better served by a shorter OCI in most cases. This is especialy true if dino oil is being used. The second and third owners in most cases are the ones that are going to have to make repairs that could easily have been avoided by shorter OCI's. This is my opion based on my experinces as a mechanic.
 
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