Plans for a 5W-40 Mid-Saps?
High Performance Lubricants PCMO Series
- Thread starter High Performance Lubricants
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I use M1 5-20 or 5-30 in my 2010 Sonata 2.4, Purolator upgrade. 369 k on the clock, 5 - 6 k oil change interval. Runs great. What's my advantage of switching to HPL ?
You can stop getting under your car every 2.3 months, on average, and extend that to maybe 7-8 months or longer.
@wwillson’s 2020 Duramax has only had 2 oil changes over its past 50k+ miles and he tows, heavy. $150 total for maintenance. You’re spending roughly the same every 20k miles. That’s the benefit, and there’s zero downsides because of the robustness of the HPL.
Sam_Julier
$50 Site Donor 2024
A 10,000 mile oil drain. Less time spent changing the oil and filter.
You can stop getting under your car every 2.3 months, on average, and extend that to maybe 7-8 months or longer.
@wwillson’s 2020 Duramax has only had 2 oil changes over its past 50k+ miles and he tows, heavy. $150 total for maintenance. You’re spending roughly the same every 20k miles. That’s the benefit, and there’s zero downsides because of the robustness of the HPL.
He should be performing a Tire Rotation and MPI at least every 7500 miles, anyway.
Agree, but that doesn't mean he can’t just do his oil changes every other tire rotation & inspection… he could always change the filter and top the oil off at 7.5k if he really feels like doing extra work & spending extra money.
We have a 2007 Volvo s40. My gf like most girls doesn’t know anything about cars and has neglected this little car for quite a long time. We’re taking about oil changes every 1-2 years, “when she remembers” and when she thinks “it’s been long enough”. Anyways it was burning oil for a while. About 2 quarts between oil changes. I had a bottle of the engine flush laying around as I had previously run some through my car as preventative maintenance. I ran the flush for a whole oil change interval, with some top off. Needless to say the car goes 5k between oil changes without burning oil now so I’m happy about that. All our vehicles get Kirkland 5w30 so I want to say the oil aspect of this experiment has been pretty consistent. Anyways I’m happy with how things have turned out and don’t have to worry as much when we take this fun little car on trips.
@High Performance Lubricants
I have two applications that I've been considering making changes to.
1) Classic Bronco with 170" I6. Solid flat tappet cam. I've been using an Amsoil high zinc oil in this engine in a 20w/50. Is your standard PCMO 20w/50 a decent replacement for this oil in this application? It's a low mileage toy that spends most of its time sitting. Here's the data sheet for the Amsoil product for comparison:
https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g2883.pdf
2) I also have a Generac 18kW whole house generator. It generally receives a yearly oil change unless there is an extended outage that racks up running hours past 100-150 hours/year. It receives an Amsoil small engine oil in 5w/30. My wife's Fusion 2.0T has already been converted to HPL PCMO 5w/30 & my GMC Canyon will be after my stock of PUP runs out. For simplicities sake, I'd like to run the same oil in both vehicles as well as the generator even if it means moving to a 5w/40. Ambient temperatures the generator (air cooled) sees is High 20's to a bit over 110F. Here's the data sheet for the Amsoil product for comparison:
I have two applications that I've been considering making changes to.
1) Classic Bronco with 170" I6. Solid flat tappet cam. I've been using an Amsoil high zinc oil in this engine in a 20w/50. Is your standard PCMO 20w/50 a decent replacement for this oil in this application? It's a low mileage toy that spends most of its time sitting. Here's the data sheet for the Amsoil product for comparison:
https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g2883.pdf
2) I also have a Generac 18kW whole house generator. It generally receives a yearly oil change unless there is an extended outage that racks up running hours past 100-150 hours/year. It receives an Amsoil small engine oil in 5w/30. My wife's Fusion 2.0T has already been converted to HPL PCMO 5w/30 & my GMC Canyon will be after my stock of PUP runs out. For simplicities sake, I'd like to run the same oil in both vehicles as well as the generator even if it means moving to a 5w/40. Ambient temperatures the generator (air cooled) sees is High 20's to a bit over 110F. Here's the data sheet for the Amsoil product for comparison:
In this case depending on your climate, I would recommend our cold climate 5w40. Generators don’t get the luxury of running on warm oil on startup. This is what I do with our own generators. It is a CK-4 oil dual rated for gasoline. The car fill receive the benefit of the oil for the generator.
David
David
Lows of high 20's in winter to just over 110 in summer is the typical range the air cooled generator will be operated in. I always thought the 5w/30 recommended by the manufacturer was a bit low on viscosity for our summer temperatures.
As to the Bronco. Would the standard PCMO 20w/50 be a good replacement for the current oil used (the Z Rod Amsoil)?
Thank you for your reply.
The PCMO has ZDDP content typical of API SP oils (~800 ppm P) so I would take his recommendation of the CK-4 5W-40 HDMO Premium. The ZDDP content is ~50% higher. The generator is most likely splash lubricated which makes cold weather viscosity a bit more tricky. Thick oil does not like to splash.
A 20W-50 at 50°F is 400-600 cSt which is 2-3x the viscosity of maple syrup. Down at 20°F, it's over 1,000 cSt which is more like resin or pine sap. The Bronco would be better served with a 5W-40 to crank and flow easy on cold starts and because that engine likely has no use nor benefit from a 50 grade oil anyway. Realistically, a 5W-30 would be fine. If you wanted one oil you could use in all of your engines listed, the CK-4 HDMO 5W-30 or 5W-40 would be the way to go.
A 20W-50 at 50°F is 400-600 cSt which is 2-3x the viscosity of maple syrup. Down at 20°F, it's over 1,000 cSt which is more like resin or pine sap. The Bronco would be better served with a 5W-40 to crank and flow easy on cold starts and because that engine likely has no use nor benefit from a 50 grade oil anyway. Realistically, a 5W-30 would be fine. If you wanted one oil you could use in all of your engines listed, the CK-4 HDMO 5W-30 or 5W-40 would be the way to go.
I suspect a slight ring seal issue with the bronco as I’ve used a 10/30 & 10/40 Z Rod in it previously but noticed additional flow through the pcv. When I switched to the 20/50, pcv flow decreased noticeably. It wasn’t some miracle type difference but was noticeable. All vehicles are garage (insulated) kept so only the generator needs to start cold.
The bronco was used as a ranch vehicle to check water for decades. Never saw >20mph most of its life. Besides the old iron rings, likely has carbon/sludge buildup creating the issue. Am hoping the added cleaning capability of the HPL will assist with this. If not a honing & new ring set will likely be in order down the road.
Good info though.
The reduction in oil through the PCV is likely due to the 20W-50 being less volatile though that depends on which oil you switched from. Were you using a different oil in 20W-50 before the Z-Rod 20W-50 or were you using a different viscosity of Z-Rod?
Like you mentioned, it's probable that there's some coking of the rings causing the sealing issue. As the HPL oil cleans, that will likely improve some.
I’ve only used Z Rod so all 3 viscosities were that formulation.
Previous owner used whatever was on sale at Napa in 10/40 to 20/50.
Just got home from a 12hr night shift. Thanks for the replies. Will check back this afternoon.
Down to my last two handles of off the shelf oil and looking to switch to HPL. For simplicity sake, I'd like to run a single oil as my "fleet" oil.
Cars: 04 TL (168k, 5w20 API), 20 Sienna (56k, 0w20 ILSAC GF-5), 20 Tiguan (38k, 0w20 VW508)
Acura should be fine dropping to 0w20, so I'm trying to decide between PCMO Premium Plus and Euro 0w20. I'm sure either would be fine, but I'm just curious as to the differences in add packs/performance. I know for off the shelf, Euro oils tend to have more emphasis on deposit control and long life. I noticed the HPL have a large difference in TBN, but aside from oem certs, the descriptions are the same. What's the difference in HPL for practical use, and is the euro 0w20 green like VW508 (ext warranty)?
Cars: 04 TL (168k, 5w20 API), 20 Sienna (56k, 0w20 ILSAC GF-5), 20 Tiguan (38k, 0w20 VW508)
Acura should be fine dropping to 0w20, so I'm trying to decide between PCMO Premium Plus and Euro 0w20. I'm sure either would be fine, but I'm just curious as to the differences in add packs/performance. I know for off the shelf, Euro oils tend to have more emphasis on deposit control and long life. I noticed the HPL have a large difference in TBN, but aside from oem certs, the descriptions are the same. What's the difference in HPL for practical use, and is the euro 0w20 green like VW508 (ext warranty)?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Use whichever aligns with the Tiguan, so the Euro 0W-20, for everything.
a summary of Lubrizol about additive
https://torontostle.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Chemistry-of-Lubricant-Additive-Components.pdf
https://torontostle.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Chemistry-of-Lubricant-Additive-Components.pdf
The 50 weight, when up to temp, helps with ring seal quite a bit. Which also increases power. Watch Engine Masters season 8 episode 13. Very interesting stuff.
It's worth noting though they used a worn out marine engine with thick 5/64" rings that needed the thick oil film due to lack of sufficiently remaining crosshatch to hold the oil film. That was also with GP-1 which is majority group I conventional and thus the more volatile 5W-20 likely wasn't too happy on those 450°F cylinder walls. Like most things on EM, the engine and oil were cherry picked to give a desired controversial result. If they tested GP-1 10W-30, or a stout No VII 20 grade like HPL's Euro 10W-20, it would've been a different result... but that doesn't get as big of ratings. Take what you see on that show with a grain of salt. After all, they're magazine guys well versed in selling narratives. They're also big proponents of Lucas Oil Stabilizer which tells you all you need to know about their oil knowledge.
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