Thanks for the info. I have a Limited (wet head), and if I puke a water pump on a trip always wondered what oil temps I might see without coolant circulating? I'm sure the heavier full dresser with no oil cooler, and the bump in compression would run a bit hotter, but now confident backing down to 55-60 mph the temps would stay manageable.
Harley 360 oil, VR1 oil conventional. High Heat
- Thread starter Saltysquid
- Start date
Originally Posted by Jimiii
Thanks for the info. I have a Limited (wet head), and if I puke a water pump on a trip always wondered what oil temps I might see without coolant circulating? I'm sure the heavier full dresser with no oil cooler, and the bump in compression would run a bit hotter, but now confident backing down to 55-60 mph the temps would stay manageable.
Yeah, yes, that is a good question for your bike and one you see mentioned many times in the HD forums. It seems a like a split of thoughts on the subject. Im sure it would be nice to have a solid answer. IM not so sure about how manageable, no cooler and I forgot about the higher compression.
Well, heck, you got a heck of a nice bike, you could always get the digital dipstick and you would know for sure if that situation ever came up.
Im assuming you have a Rushmore 103 and not the new M8?
I know the Rushmore 103s had a lot of water pump issues for a while, came down to soldered connections of something in the pump?
Thanks for the info. I have a Limited (wet head), and if I puke a water pump on a trip always wondered what oil temps I might see without coolant circulating? I'm sure the heavier full dresser with no oil cooler, and the bump in compression would run a bit hotter, but now confident backing down to 55-60 mph the temps would stay manageable.
Yeah, yes, that is a good question for your bike and one you see mentioned many times in the HD forums. It seems a like a split of thoughts on the subject. Im sure it would be nice to have a solid answer. IM not so sure about how manageable, no cooler and I forgot about the higher compression.
Well, heck, you got a heck of a nice bike, you could always get the digital dipstick and you would know for sure if that situation ever came up.
Im assuming you have a Rushmore 103 and not the new M8?
I know the Rushmore 103s had a lot of water pump issues for a while, came down to soldered connections of something in the pump?
I monitor the oil pressure regularly like you watch your oil temps. using your numbers and my psi gives me a real good idea of my oil temps. Thanks
Sure thing. If your coolant pump ever breaks down I would guess running around 45 MPH would be best.
This is the only place I use boutique oil. I have had great results with any of my air cool engines using Lucas Full Synthetic Motorcycle Oil, preferably 20w-50. I get no burn off and it stays clean and clear for along time.
Andrew
Andrew
So late update. I almost ordered the redline and couldn't get over the cost with shipping. The GL 5 with yellow metals although considered safe made me nervous.
So i contacted royal purple did the research and settled on 20 w50 xpr with free shipping. I will keep you updated with an eventual uoa.
They were very honest i felt. Told me max cycle would work but could run the hps for less of i wanted. Said the absolute best was the xpr. Said not use the gear oil. So i went for it. My plan is to use harley synthetic 80-140 for the trans. Thoughts? I realize not everyone loves the royal purple. But im specifically looking for opinions on the new Harley transmission oil.
Thanks
So i contacted royal purple did the research and settled on 20 w50 xpr with free shipping. I will keep you updated with an eventual uoa.
They were very honest i felt. Told me max cycle would work but could run the hps for less of i wanted. Said the absolute best was the xpr. Said not use the gear oil. So i went for it. My plan is to use harley synthetic 80-140 for the trans. Thoughts? I realize not everyone loves the royal purple. But im specifically looking for opinions on the new Harley transmission oil.
Thanks
Last edited:
I would stick with Formula+ for your Sportster's primary/transmission. I would also change it as often as your engine oil, or even sooner if you are one that likes to run the oil for a long time. I would look at the used oil in the sunlight and you can judge how much metal you can live with.
Jim you mentioned you run a wet head and were curious what happen if your water pump gave out. Although it may be safe to slow down and keep riding there was something I forgot. The whiteheads run at a slightly higher compression from what I understand and that of course would generate more heat so maybe that's where the debate is as far as if it's safe to keep running.
Andrew, I'm rushing to work and maybe getting lost in this thread I assume you're running the 2050 in the transmission and primary?
Andrew, I'm rushing to work and maybe getting lost in this thread I assume you're running the 2050 in the transmission and primary?
Last edited:
Harley oils are overpriced.
I have run Harley, Amsoil, Redline, and now Schaffers oils in my bikes. None have ever had any oil related failures. I have Schaffers 20w-50 in engine and primary and their 80-90 gear oil in transmission. All three holes get changed every 4-5k miles..
I have run Harley, Amsoil, Redline, and now Schaffers oils in my bikes. None have ever had any oil related failures. I have Schaffers 20w-50 in engine and primary and their 80-90 gear oil in transmission. All three holes get changed every 4-5k miles..
Last edited:
Originally Posted by loneryder
Keep in mind today's Mobil 1 15-50 lost a lot of zinc and pho's when it became SN rated. It's not what it used to be.
Yes, true but doesn't matter really, as the HDEO also have greatly reduced as well. Goes for any SN oil, as well as CJ4 and ultimately CK4
HD manual states CH4+ or higher so all good.
For almost entire life of my 2014 Road King (27,000 miles) I have used Mystic JT8 15/50 and would still highly recommend it to any Harley owners for the recommended CH4+ rating.
I REALLY like this oil and my Road King performs as better then new.
But after so many years I got the itch to try Mobil 1 15/50 as an experiment regarding oil temps in HOT weather. Add to that I was low on the JT8. No ill effects or noises yet and not least bit concerned about less zinc ect. I one of the odd ones that is no longer a believer that Phos and zinc are the end all to good oil. At the same time Mobil 1 15/50 is out of spec for HD, actually almost every oil on the market is out of spec. At least on Mobile 1 claims it meets CF which at least is something.
Mystic JT8 and Amsoil 15/50 Diesel oil and HD own oil are the only ones I know that satisfy HD.
Keep in mind today's Mobil 1 15-50 lost a lot of zinc and pho's when it became SN rated. It's not what it used to be.
Yes, true but doesn't matter really, as the HDEO also have greatly reduced as well. Goes for any SN oil, as well as CJ4 and ultimately CK4
HD manual states CH4+ or higher so all good.
For almost entire life of my 2014 Road King (27,000 miles) I have used Mystic JT8 15/50 and would still highly recommend it to any Harley owners for the recommended CH4+ rating.
I REALLY like this oil and my Road King performs as better then new.
But after so many years I got the itch to try Mobil 1 15/50 as an experiment regarding oil temps in HOT weather. Add to that I was low on the JT8. No ill effects or noises yet and not least bit concerned about less zinc ect. I one of the odd ones that is no longer a believer that Phos and zinc are the end all to good oil. At the same time Mobil 1 15/50 is out of spec for HD, actually almost every oil on the market is out of spec. At least on Mobile 1 claims it meets CF which at least is something.
Mystic JT8 and Amsoil 15/50 Diesel oil and HD own oil are the only ones I know that satisfy HD.
Last edited:
Zinc is sacrificed (used up ) in a motor oil under extreme conditions only. Higher levels of zinc do NOT provide more protection, but rather LONGER protection. If your engine never reaches these extremes of high pressure and temperature, no zinc will be utilized. High levels of zinc are unnecessary unless you run very long oil changes or are consistently operating at ridiculously high oil temps. There is only 32 ounces of "room" in your quart of oil. If more of that space is taken up with unnecessary amounts of zinc, there is less room for other important additives. I agree with Alarmguy, don't get hung up on zinc.
Mobil lists 15w50 as having 1300 PPM zinc and 1200 PPM phosphorus. What did the levels used to be if this is lower?
Zinc reacts on a surface that is under extreme pressure which may create a localized hotspot, during a run up to high RPM in a motorcycle specifically in the valve train. Oil temperature would not rise appreciably but local extreme pressure increases in the valve train.
IMO, if the oil temperature inside of an engine is so hot as to causes zinc to start popping off and activating, there are more problems than zinc will protect from.
Zinc reacts on a surface that is under extreme pressure which may create a localized hotspot, during a run up to high RPM in a motorcycle specifically in the valve train. Oil temperature would not rise appreciably but local extreme pressure increases in the valve train.
IMO, if the oil temperature inside of an engine is so hot as to causes zinc to start popping off and activating, there are more problems than zinc will protect from.
Agree with the 2 posts above, this maybe the shortest post I ever made
Last edited:
This answers something I've been wondering about for a while. I know very little about oil but I have rebuilt a lot of Harley engines. The only failures I have ever seen that were directly a result of an inferior oil were 1) a guy who was running K-Mart 10w-40 ("oil is oil, it's all the same"), a guy who ran gear oil in the engine ("if 60 weight is good then 90 weight must be better") -- those engines were trashed -- and something that is probably more relevant to this discussion which was a lot of unprecedented cam lobe and tappet roller failures running automotive oil (Castrol GTX was the worst) in the late 80s and early 90s. Other than that, with one exception (below) I just haven't seen that many problems that were attributable to oil.
What mostly tends to damage the engines isn't the oil, it's the rider. Somebody mentioned crankpin bearings skating rather than rolling earlier, this is real, the mechanic quoted just didn't have a complete understanding. It's not whether the oil is synthetic, it's temperature, pressure, and viscosity. If the oil is too heavy or the oil pressure is too high then the rollers will not keep up with the crankpin and the rod race and there is a distinctive kind of damage. You can't mistake it for anything else when you disassemble the engine. The same failure mode will show in guys who regularly start their bike cold and tach it up. This is usually the guy with the straight pipes in the parking lot of the bar, and it's usually the guy who installed the aftermarket oil pump because "more pressure is better."
Oil gets blamed for failures that are actually due to abuse on Harleys. An engine with a 4" (or greater) stroke and a crankshaft that heavy and cam lifts that high comes with some serious linear speeds and inertia. If you take the slack out of the driveline gently, use the clutch the way it was intended, you can then accelerate as much as you want to and nothing is likely to get hurt. If you wind it up and dump the clutch there is no oil anywhere that is going to hold up very long to the shock load that is happening inside that motor, and that is even if you don't bend or twist a rod.
This discussion has helped me figure out a failure pattern (the exception mentioned above), when cams and rollers fail prematurely you can see where the hard facing is coming off in certain spots but not others. Initially I wanted to blame weak valve springs and tappet bounce, but measuring the spring pressure, that wasn't it. Now that one turned out to be oil. Some oils hold up better than others, and I don't think it's about temperature, but rather additives.
Harley published some research when they first approved 20w-50 about temperature and oil life, we paid quite a bit of attention to that, and of course it was true. We don't want the oil getting too hot. If you are beating on your bike in hot weather, change the oil more often, that's common sense. But the major repairs we were seeing couldn't be explained by worn out oil -- if you are even halfway trying to take care of your bike and changing the oil anywhere near the recommended interval, then something else has to be happening.
I know of an Evo motor with over 260,000 miles on it, the only oil it was ever run on was 15-40 truck engine oil (I think it was Rotella), the filter was changed every other time, and the only time this engine has been touched with a wrench was to change spark plugs. I rode the bike, it was perfect. I asked the owner about it, he said the main thing was he lets it warm up and he has rarely exceeded 4,000 rpm.
I have rebuilt Shovelheads (now there is a challenge for any oil) that were just flat worn out. The clearances piston to cylinder, valve stem to guide, crank pin to race, were all easily double the high spec of the service wear limits but the wear surface of the metal still looked great. No galling, gouging, nothing discolored, it just looked great. Turns out it was either VR-1 or HDEO for the life of that motor. A motor that leaked so much I expect the additive chemistry was being refreshed every 500 miles.
Now let's get into Panheads -- I've verified that the oil pressure light might not come on until you are down to about 2 psi at an idle, and the Harley manual regarded this as normal. We're still talking about a forked rod set on roller bearings with a one-hole crank pin, not that much changed in 40 years. Same story, use good oil, change it when you are supposed to, let the bike warm up a little before you tach it up, make sure the slack is taken up out of the driveline before you apply a lot of power, and the engines would just keep going.
Good stuff here, I think it's worth taking a closer look at additives and why they work the way they do on the unique conditions inside a V-Twin.
What mostly tends to damage the engines isn't the oil, it's the rider. Somebody mentioned crankpin bearings skating rather than rolling earlier, this is real, the mechanic quoted just didn't have a complete understanding. It's not whether the oil is synthetic, it's temperature, pressure, and viscosity. If the oil is too heavy or the oil pressure is too high then the rollers will not keep up with the crankpin and the rod race and there is a distinctive kind of damage. You can't mistake it for anything else when you disassemble the engine. The same failure mode will show in guys who regularly start their bike cold and tach it up. This is usually the guy with the straight pipes in the parking lot of the bar, and it's usually the guy who installed the aftermarket oil pump because "more pressure is better."
Oil gets blamed for failures that are actually due to abuse on Harleys. An engine with a 4" (or greater) stroke and a crankshaft that heavy and cam lifts that high comes with some serious linear speeds and inertia. If you take the slack out of the driveline gently, use the clutch the way it was intended, you can then accelerate as much as you want to and nothing is likely to get hurt. If you wind it up and dump the clutch there is no oil anywhere that is going to hold up very long to the shock load that is happening inside that motor, and that is even if you don't bend or twist a rod.
This discussion has helped me figure out a failure pattern (the exception mentioned above), when cams and rollers fail prematurely you can see where the hard facing is coming off in certain spots but not others. Initially I wanted to blame weak valve springs and tappet bounce, but measuring the spring pressure, that wasn't it. Now that one turned out to be oil. Some oils hold up better than others, and I don't think it's about temperature, but rather additives.
Harley published some research when they first approved 20w-50 about temperature and oil life, we paid quite a bit of attention to that, and of course it was true. We don't want the oil getting too hot. If you are beating on your bike in hot weather, change the oil more often, that's common sense. But the major repairs we were seeing couldn't be explained by worn out oil -- if you are even halfway trying to take care of your bike and changing the oil anywhere near the recommended interval, then something else has to be happening.
I know of an Evo motor with over 260,000 miles on it, the only oil it was ever run on was 15-40 truck engine oil (I think it was Rotella), the filter was changed every other time, and the only time this engine has been touched with a wrench was to change spark plugs. I rode the bike, it was perfect. I asked the owner about it, he said the main thing was he lets it warm up and he has rarely exceeded 4,000 rpm.
I have rebuilt Shovelheads (now there is a challenge for any oil) that were just flat worn out. The clearances piston to cylinder, valve stem to guide, crank pin to race, were all easily double the high spec of the service wear limits but the wear surface of the metal still looked great. No galling, gouging, nothing discolored, it just looked great. Turns out it was either VR-1 or HDEO for the life of that motor. A motor that leaked so much I expect the additive chemistry was being refreshed every 500 miles.
Now let's get into Panheads -- I've verified that the oil pressure light might not come on until you are down to about 2 psi at an idle, and the Harley manual regarded this as normal. We're still talking about a forked rod set on roller bearings with a one-hole crank pin, not that much changed in 40 years. Same story, use good oil, change it when you are supposed to, let the bike warm up a little before you tach it up, make sure the slack is taken up out of the driveline before you apply a lot of power, and the engines would just keep going.
Good stuff here, I think it's worth taking a closer look at additives and why they work the way they do on the unique conditions inside a V-Twin.
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by loneryder
Keep in mind today's Mobil 1 15-50 lost a lot of zinc and pho's when it became SN rated. It's not what it used to be.
Yes, true but doesn't matter really, as the HDEO also have greatly reduced as well. Goes for any SN oil, as well as CJ4 and ultimately CK4
HD manual states CH4+ or higher so all good.
For almost entire life of my 2014 Road King (27,000 miles) I have used Mystic JT8 15/50 and would still highly recommend it to any Harley owners for the recommended CH4+ rating.
I REALLY like this oil and my Road King performs as better then new.
But after so many years I got the itch to try Mobil 1 15/50 as an experiment regarding oil temps in HOT weather. Add to that I was low on the JT8. No ill effects or noises yet and not least bit concerned about less zinc ect. I one of the odd ones that is no longer a believer that Phos and zinc are the end all to good oil. At the same time Mobil 1 15/50 is out of spec for HD, actually almost every oil on the market is out of spec. At least on Mobile 1 claims it meets CF which at least is something.
Mystic JT8 and Amsoil 15/50 Diesel oil and HD own oil are the only ones I know that satisfy HD.
I don't think you run long ici's so it should be fine. You have to ask yourself why the Mobil 1 V-Twin 20-50 has 1600 phos and 1750 Zinc vs these "anti-zinc posts. That oil is made for Harleys while 15-50 is a car oil. I used to run the 15-50 in my Twin Cams in the early 2000's. I just wanted you to know that it's not what it used to be because of the sn rating. Lately I've been using the Valvoline 20-50 for V-Twins as it's a little cheaper. My 14 103 seems to run a little quieter.
Originally Posted by loneryder
Keep in mind today's Mobil 1 15-50 lost a lot of zinc and pho's when it became SN rated. It's not what it used to be.
Yes, true but doesn't matter really, as the HDEO also have greatly reduced as well. Goes for any SN oil, as well as CJ4 and ultimately CK4
HD manual states CH4+ or higher so all good.
For almost entire life of my 2014 Road King (27,000 miles) I have used Mystic JT8 15/50 and would still highly recommend it to any Harley owners for the recommended CH4+ rating.
I REALLY like this oil and my Road King performs as better then new.
But after so many years I got the itch to try Mobil 1 15/50 as an experiment regarding oil temps in HOT weather. Add to that I was low on the JT8. No ill effects or noises yet and not least bit concerned about less zinc ect. I one of the odd ones that is no longer a believer that Phos and zinc are the end all to good oil. At the same time Mobil 1 15/50 is out of spec for HD, actually almost every oil on the market is out of spec. At least on Mobile 1 claims it meets CF which at least is something.
Mystic JT8 and Amsoil 15/50 Diesel oil and HD own oil are the only ones I know that satisfy HD.
I don't think you run long ici's so it should be fine. You have to ask yourself why the Mobil 1 V-Twin 20-50 has 1600 phos and 1750 Zinc vs these "anti-zinc posts. That oil is made for Harleys while 15-50 is a car oil. I used to run the 15-50 in my Twin Cams in the early 2000's. I just wanted you to know that it's not what it used to be because of the sn rating. Lately I've been using the Valvoline 20-50 for V-Twins as it's a little cheaper. My 14 103 seems to run a little quieter.
Originally Posted by loneryder
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by loneryder
Keep in mind today's Mobil 1 15-50 lost a lot of zinc and pho's when it became SN rated. It's not what it used to be.
Yes, true but doesn't matter really, as the HDEO also have greatly reduced as well. Goes for any SN oil, as well as CJ4 and ultimately CK4
HD manual states CH4+ or higher so all good.
For almost entire life of my 2014 Road King (27,000 miles) I have used Mystic JT8 15/50 and would still highly recommend it to any Harley owners for the recommended CH4+ rating.
I REALLY like this oil and my Road King performs as better then new.
But after so many years I got the itch to try Mobil 1 15/50 as an experiment regarding oil temps in HOT weather. Add to that I was low on the JT8. No ill effects or noises yet and not least bit concerned about less zinc ect. I one of the odd ones that is no longer a believer that Phos and zinc are the end all to good oil. At the same time Mobil 1 15/50 is out of spec for HD, actually almost every oil on the market is out of spec. At least on Mobile 1 claims it meets CF which at least is something.
Mystic JT8 and Amsoil 15/50 Diesel oil and HD own oil are the only ones I know that satisfy HD.
I don't think you run long ici's so it should be fine. You have to ask yourself why the Mobil 1 V-Twin 20-50 has 1600 phos and 1750 Zinc vs these "anti-zinc posts. That oil is made for Harleys while 15-50 is a car oil. I used to run the 15-50 in my Twin Cams in the early 2000's. I just wanted you to know that it's not what it used to be because of the sn rating. Lately I've been using the Valvoline 20-50 for V-Twins as it's a little cheaper. My 14 103 seems to run a little quieter.
I can not agree with you on this. Just like my other vechicles. Car, truck, boat and bike. I stay within the reasonable specifications of what the engine manufacturer requires for oil.
I dont purchase oil like Mobile 1 motorcycle oil because an oil company says its good for the application, after all they are selling a product. Wold we buy an oil with no ratings and put it in our cars, trucks and boats as well as piston aircraft?
I know I said this before, but Mystic JT8, Amsoil 15/50 diesel oil (which by the way also mentions motorcycles) and HD own oils are the only ones available in the USA that meet the manufacturers requirement.
I think you are getting caught up on Mobile 1 motorcycle oil "marketing" by saying = "You have to ask yourself why the Mobil 1 V-Twin 20-50 has 1600 phos and 1750 Zinc vs these "anti-zinc posts"
I would answer that with the following, you have to ask yourself why you are putting Mobil 1 oil with high 1600 phos and 1750 zinc when the maker of the engine, in this case Harley puts less then 1000 of each in its oil. Furthermore Mobile 1 motorcycle doesnt come close to meeting the engine makers requirement for an HDEO rating of CH4 or higher. Mobile 1 4 stroke 20w50 is an SJ/CF oil.
Massive amounts of zinc are not called for, do not meet the CH4+ rating and can lead to engine deposits as well.
Just discussing here on why I dont have to go off "script" and put non recommended oil in my motorcycle. I dont do that with my car, truck or boat, why would I for a motorcycle?
If you want a "boutique oil for Harley, just buy the Amsoil 15/50 diesel oil which meets Harley specs for about the same cost of Mobile 1 which doesnt.
Not a big deal but a recent UOA shows Mobile 1 with a lot lower zinc/phos then you mention, again for an HD engine, its not recommended anyway but here is the post ...
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru.../zrx1200-mobil-1-v-twin-20w50-5065-miles
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by loneryder
Keep in mind today's Mobil 1 15-50 lost a lot of zinc and pho's when it became SN rated. It's not what it used to be.
Yes, true but doesn't matter really, as the HDEO also have greatly reduced as well. Goes for any SN oil, as well as CJ4 and ultimately CK4
HD manual states CH4+ or higher so all good.
For almost entire life of my 2014 Road King (27,000 miles) I have used Mystic JT8 15/50 and would still highly recommend it to any Harley owners for the recommended CH4+ rating.
I REALLY like this oil and my Road King performs as better then new.
But after so many years I got the itch to try Mobil 1 15/50 as an experiment regarding oil temps in HOT weather. Add to that I was low on the JT8. No ill effects or noises yet and not least bit concerned about less zinc ect. I one of the odd ones that is no longer a believer that Phos and zinc are the end all to good oil. At the same time Mobil 1 15/50 is out of spec for HD, actually almost every oil on the market is out of spec. At least on Mobile 1 claims it meets CF which at least is something.
Mystic JT8 and Amsoil 15/50 Diesel oil and HD own oil are the only ones I know that satisfy HD.
I don't think you run long ici's so it should be fine. You have to ask yourself why the Mobil 1 V-Twin 20-50 has 1600 phos and 1750 Zinc vs these "anti-zinc posts. That oil is made for Harleys while 15-50 is a car oil. I used to run the 15-50 in my Twin Cams in the early 2000's. I just wanted you to know that it's not what it used to be because of the sn rating. Lately I've been using the Valvoline 20-50 for V-Twins as it's a little cheaper. My 14 103 seems to run a little quieter.
I can not agree with you on this. Just like my other vechicles. Car, truck, boat and bike. I stay within the reasonable specifications of what the engine manufacturer requires for oil.
I dont purchase oil like Mobile 1 motorcycle oil because an oil company says its good for the application, after all they are selling a product. Wold we buy an oil with no ratings and put it in our cars, trucks and boats as well as piston aircraft?
I know I said this before, but Mystic JT8, Amsoil 15/50 diesel oil (which by the way also mentions motorcycles) and HD own oils are the only ones available in the USA that meet the manufacturers requirement.
I think you are getting caught up on Mobile 1 motorcycle oil "marketing" by saying = "You have to ask yourself why the Mobil 1 V-Twin 20-50 has 1600 phos and 1750 Zinc vs these "anti-zinc posts"
I would answer that with the following, you have to ask yourself why you are putting Mobil 1 oil with high 1600 phos and 1750 zinc when the maker of the engine, in this case Harley puts less then 1000 of each in its oil. Furthermore Mobile 1 motorcycle doesnt come close to meeting the engine makers requirement for an HDEO rating of CH4 or higher. Mobile 1 4 stroke 20w50 is an SJ/CF oil.
Massive amounts of zinc are not called for, do not meet the CH4+ rating and can lead to engine deposits as well.
Just discussing here on why I dont have to go off "script" and put non recommended oil in my motorcycle. I dont do that with my car, truck or boat, why would I for a motorcycle?
If you want a "boutique oil for Harley, just buy the Amsoil 15/50 diesel oil which meets Harley specs for about the same cost of Mobile 1 which doesnt.
Not a big deal but a recent UOA shows Mobile 1 with a lot lower zinc/phos then you mention, again for an HD engine, its not recommended anyway but here is the post ...
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru.../zrx1200-mobil-1-v-twin-20w50-5065-miles
Last edited:
We're getting caught up on semantics if we really believe Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w50 wouldn't protect any Harley or other engine as well as any other oil. It's bunch of "Hog"wash, haha.
There are plenty of bikes out there that aren't new Harleys and weren't spec'd for the oil that Harley sells at boutique prices.
Mystik JT8 is a fantastic oil and ran it in the ZRX for an oci based on the information on this forum. It has much higher zinc and phosphorus numbers than anything Harley sells, but yet it is a recommended oil based on Harley specifications.
That's my analysis in the thread that was just referenced. Every oil I have sent to Blackstone has come back low on zinc and phosphorus with the analysis. So my general question was why are my oils reading low and it was specific to the 20w50 at the time. There is analysis that show zinc and phosphorus has pretty much where it should be. My sample is not valid for any type of conclusion.
My ZRX 1200 has a rocker arm system, running slightly more aggressive ZZR1200 cams and is very happy with higher zinc and phosphorus content based on my experience and the experience of many, many, many other ZRX1200 owners that run something other than the stock cams. Especially guys that run a hard weld cam from webcam or mega cycle on the Yoshimura ST-1 profile which is slightly more aggressive than the ZZR 1200 profile. The hard weld cams absolutely appreciate a higher zinc and phosphorus content, their manufacturers recommended it.
In any case the ZRX has known low oil pressure at very hot idle such as stop and go traffic. A heavier weight oil such as a 20w50 and extra protection of zinc if things get very hot is helpful. I make a run up to the rev limit here and there, it is not hard to decide I want that in my favor. It's doing no harm and it is not causing engine deposits.
I've read about it but I've never heard of anyone who experienced engine deposits that maintained their engine with recommended oil change intervals, or otherwise.
I respect the discussion here and that's what I'm seeing and sharing at this point.
A Harley engine with a non shared sump is a different breed than what I'm running with my ZRX 1200. I would expect needs to be different in terms of the specifications, and the choice we make with respect to oil is based on different situations.
There are plenty of bikes out there that aren't new Harleys and weren't spec'd for the oil that Harley sells at boutique prices.
Mystik JT8 is a fantastic oil and ran it in the ZRX for an oci based on the information on this forum. It has much higher zinc and phosphorus numbers than anything Harley sells, but yet it is a recommended oil based on Harley specifications.
That's my analysis in the thread that was just referenced. Every oil I have sent to Blackstone has come back low on zinc and phosphorus with the analysis. So my general question was why are my oils reading low and it was specific to the 20w50 at the time. There is analysis that show zinc and phosphorus has pretty much where it should be. My sample is not valid for any type of conclusion.
My ZRX 1200 has a rocker arm system, running slightly more aggressive ZZR1200 cams and is very happy with higher zinc and phosphorus content based on my experience and the experience of many, many, many other ZRX1200 owners that run something other than the stock cams. Especially guys that run a hard weld cam from webcam or mega cycle on the Yoshimura ST-1 profile which is slightly more aggressive than the ZZR 1200 profile. The hard weld cams absolutely appreciate a higher zinc and phosphorus content, their manufacturers recommended it.
In any case the ZRX has known low oil pressure at very hot idle such as stop and go traffic. A heavier weight oil such as a 20w50 and extra protection of zinc if things get very hot is helpful. I make a run up to the rev limit here and there, it is not hard to decide I want that in my favor. It's doing no harm and it is not causing engine deposits.
I've read about it but I've never heard of anyone who experienced engine deposits that maintained their engine with recommended oil change intervals, or otherwise.
I respect the discussion here and that's what I'm seeing and sharing at this point.
A Harley engine with a non shared sump is a different breed than what I'm running with my ZRX 1200. I would expect needs to be different in terms of the specifications, and the choice we make with respect to oil is based on different situations.
Originally Posted by Bonz
We're getting caught up on semantics if we really believe Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w50 wouldn't protect any Harley or other engine as well as any other oil. It's bunch of "Hog"wash, haha.
Who said that? I cant find that in any of these posts
) Sounds more like deflection and not answering the question.
If its directed at my post, one just needs to re-read it. It just goes down to one question that is not answered by anyone. If they did answer it directly they would almost sound silly.
If we use the recommended grade oil in our cars, trucks, boats and planes.
Why are our bikes different and instead of selecting the proper grade recommended by the manufacturer, we go by the words on the oil bottle trying to sell the product.
We're getting caught up on semantics if we really believe Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w50 wouldn't protect any Harley or other engine as well as any other oil. It's bunch of "Hog"wash, haha.
Who said that? I cant find that in any of these posts
) Sounds more like deflection and not answering the question.If its directed at my post, one just needs to re-read it. It just goes down to one question that is not answered by anyone. If they did answer it directly they would almost sound silly.
If we use the recommended grade oil in our cars, trucks, boats and planes.
Why are our bikes different and instead of selecting the proper grade recommended by the manufacturer, we go by the words on the oil bottle trying to sell the product.
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Locked
