Harley 360 oil, VR1 oil conventional. High Heat

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TEXAS
So here's my questions. I been reading a lot( quarantined) anyone have experience, UOA , engine pics of Harley engines just using HD 360 specifically during summer months? In my reading some dino oil seem really good at taking the heat. Is the 10-19 degrees from synthetic truly significant? I understand dino breaks down faster but is it even measurable wear difference if conducting shorter intervals? Is it a wash with synthetics when the engine reaches its end of life? Are we talking the difference between 5000 miles or more like 50000? VR1 Seems to hold up really well im heat. Im kinda in between running a super synthetic or conventional but can't help wonder if im missing something or buying into hype for minimal measurable differences in overall engine life. Thanks i realize some of this probably seems obvious.
 
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2,427
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Deep in the heart of Jersey
If you check the motorcycle UOA section you'll find reports by alot of guys who used most of the popular oils available today. Synthetic oil seems to be winning over most . I personally use Valvoline mineral MC oil in the motor, Rotella 15/40 in the primary, and 70/90 wt gear oil in the trans. They seems to be doing everything I ask of it. A bit cheaper then synthetic which I've used in the past. My experience with Harley's branded oil is, my consumption was higher with their oil. Made me wonder if I had a motor problem, but it went way down when I changed brands . Harley's brand synthetic always made the motor sound louder, with more valve train ticks. My bike has about 75k miles on it now, and I don't plan on using any other brand at this point in it's life. I found what works for me.,,,
 
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2,723
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High Tax Illinois
welcome Remember when Harley advised against using synthetic oil? Said the H-D 360 was the oil designed and tested for their engines. Any good motorcycle synthetic oil would be good.
 

Saltysquid

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Thanks for the feedback. I always been on the synthetic bandwagon. The uoa on VR1 dino i read about just blew my mind.
 
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4,174
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N.C.
[quote=Saltysquid]Thanks for the feedback. I always been on the synthetic bandwagon. The uoa on VR1 dino i read about just blew my mind. Do tell! I've used Vr1 conventional in my Harley's for years. I've never had a Uoa done on the Vr1 but I'm hoping it blew your mind in a good way. smile[/quote]
 

Saltysquid

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So i was reading a couple harley forums and what i found was the vr1 dino does remarkably well has a higher flashpoint than valvoline in the synthetic version. I was surprised but the gentlemen had decent UOAs to back it up. Hope that helps. Currently leaning towards redline but tempted to run a conventional for no other reason than it goes against current conventional wisdom. I realize it would be easier to do what the manual says lol.
 
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788
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Colorado, USA
VR1 20W50 in a Harley seems to be a no-brainer especially since you're tempted to do something "different". Go for it! Food for thought, run it for however many miles you normally would, take an appropriate sample and have it analyzed. Keep the oil in the crankcase while the analysis being done. It won't add many more miles to the total and it's certainly not going to hurt anything. Then you can see if that it oil should be drained or not. Seems to me oil analysis was originally for the long haul truckers and monitoring from a major cost standpoint. Guys like us have decided that we need to change oil every 3000 miles and send it into Blackstone to keep them in business. I've discovered 5000 miles on either of the Mobil synthetic motorcycle oils (10w40 4Tor 20w50 Vtwin) is barely beginning to stretch the oil. A TBN of well over 6.0 in each case along with good wear numbers tells me that. My challenge is to leave it in for 6,000 miles, do a sample then evaluate, as I am running the 10w40 4T this go around.
 
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4,321
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South Carolina
I use the Mystic JT8 15/50 too, very happy with it. Have done at LEAST 4 or more UOA/VOAs on it. I also used it in my boat last year and will most likely again this year. For fun, I was thinking about running Mobile 1 15/50 this year, for one reason only, my stock of 8 gallons of JT8 will be depleted this year, option is to use it in the boat or bike, dont think I have enough for both. I can then order more but for fun was thinking Mobile 1 15/50 to see if any difference in summer time engine temps since its a full syn and the price is down to $22 and change now. I stress that is the only reason, been using JT8 on my 2014 Road King for what must be the last 5 years and just looking for something difference out of boredom using the same oil! *L*. I know the EXACT oil operating temperatures under all conditions on my bike using a digital dipstick temp gauge. Some claim full syn will lower oil temps. My only reason to try that Mobile 1 is the above, experiment and prove or disprove a claim. With that said, the JT8 is a HDEO and HDEO oil in mentioned in the owners manual (if HD oil not avail) and I hate to not use it for that reason, the Mobile 1 only has a low CF HDEO rating, my Harley Engine runs like its still new and does not use oil between changes, think I am up to 27,000 miles. Whatever oil you choose, just change it on time, doesn't matter if its syn or not. You do not mention what kind of motorcycle you ride! (PS this thread should be moved to the "motorcycle lubrication" section and not be in the UOA section.)
 
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788
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Colorado, USA
It will be interesting to see if the synthetic lowers your operating temperature. I have done very unscientific studies with 20w50 vs 10w40 in my ZRX 1200. Synthetic or conventional, in either case the lighter weight oil keeps the fan from coming on as soon in hot summer traffic. I ran Mobil 1 15w50 in the ZRX for an OCI. Can't say I had a problem with it, I just wanted higher zinc content for the flat tappets than what I saw on the analysis vs what they advertise. Regardless of what Mobil says, on a number of UOA's I've seen lower zinc by a good amount than what they're advertising.
 
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South Carolina
Yes, it will be interesting, I am almost sure I am going to try it, I do LOVE the SemiSynJT8 (heck I even use it in my boat now) and darn bike has been so good to me I hate to for the first time in YEARS since almost new to use a different oil but I am curious to put to rest in my mind the claims by some that synthetic oil in Harleys lower oil temperature. I dont except to see any difference but then I will be able to say with certainty when I see the claim in the future. I know the oil temperature range like the back on my hand on my bike in every riding condition, so will be a fun kind of thing to do, Im not really looking to lower the temperature vs see if there is a difference. After this experiment I fully intend to go back to the JT8 15/50. I do want to stress I might chicken out at the last minute and stay with the JT8, I willingly know in the next week or two :o) when I go to change the oil what I will do. I can certainly see lighter weight oil keeping the temperature down as you mention, less drag in the engine and I assume faster temperature transfer of the heat to the outside of the engine. Actually 10/40 vs 20/50 I would think in every case would be lower with the lighter oil if that is what one is looking to do. Me, I have to have a 50 for the Road King. Its kind of funny, when most bikes are off the road in the scorching SC summer, I am the one on the road! In any given year we can get up to 4 solid months of 90+ high temps of the day and the middle of summer? You would be hard pressed to see a day where the high isnt over 94 or so.
 
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New Lenox Illinois
Try the Mobil 1 15w50. The real issue isn't oil temps. There will be no real differences between Mystic & Mobil 1 of the same grade. The real issue is when your oil reaches to, or near its max temperature threshold, oxidation occurs. When this happens, the oil bonds with oxygen molecules, and the oil thickens. This is bad! The oxygen bonded oil doesn't lubricate as well, AND causes even higher oil temps as the higher the viscosity, the hotter the oil will get. A vicious cycle. A synthetic base resists oxidation better.
 

Saltysquid

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Makes sense. I called redline to get a recommendation for what i should run. I gotta say the customer service is stellar. Im going with the redline. Im gonna do another run after my 1000 mile service with hd 360 and get to 2000 plus miles to make sure everything seats properly. Thanks for the help ive been a long time lurker on this site read a ton. I don't why this fascinates me but im hooked. I wrestled with running conventional but after thinking about the potential breakdown its not worth it to me. Houston has some hot temps and this motorcycle is how i commute to work. I should reach 2000 miles in 3 months. I bought a 2016 harley roadster i intend to baby it.
 
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4,321
Location
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Jimiii
Try the Mobil 1 15w50. The real issue isn't oil temps. There will be no real differences between Mystic & Mobil 1 of the same grade. The real issue is when your oil reaches to, or near its max temperature threshold, oxidation occurs. When this happens, the oil bonds with oxygen molecules, and the oil thickens. This is bad! The oxygen bonded oil doesn't lubricate as well, AND causes even higher oil temps as the higher the viscosity, the hotter the oil will get. A vicious cycle. A synthetic base resists oxidation better.
No, not correct. The real difference for me using Mystic JT8 its a recommended "C" rated oil from Harley owners manual if unable to buy Harley Oil. Mobile 1 does not come close to meeting those specs. Furthermore I have at least 4 UOAs on this oil from my Road King posted right here in BITOG showing no hint what so ever regarding Oxidation and my oil temps can run as high as 267 at the most extreme degrees here in SC.  The summertime temperatures here where I live in SC are the same, actually slightly higher then the OP Houston Texas. Both oils meets the same specs for gasoline engines and Mystic take its to a much higher level and meets the "C" HDEO ratings Mobile 1 does not. Bottom line, change your oil on time specified by the manufacturer and your good to go, no reason what so ever to go into "if" "and" or "butt" I say, if you want your engine to last its longest, use the oil recommended, rather then theories. With that said, either oil will be fine but dont discount and recommend an out of spec oil compared to an inspector oil based on full syn or not.
 
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15,325
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Upper Midwest
Originally Posted by Xcbullet
The heat is where the VR1 20-50 shines, the synthetics are better for the cold as they flow better.
A lower winter rating helps a lot more.
 
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788
Location
Colorado, USA
Originally Posted by Xcbullet
The heat is where the VR1 20-50 shines, the synthetics are better for the cold as they flow better.
I've never heard of a situation where a conventional oil no matter how good it may be, will outperform a quality synthetic of the same grade at high temperatures. That just is not in the job description for conventional oils. If it is, then it is not a conventional oil it's a synthetic.
 
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4,321
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South Carolina
Honestly I dont know a quality synthetic that will show lower wear numbers at high temperatures then any conventional. Assuming the conventional is changed at the manufacturer recommended intervals and using the manufacturer recommended grade. (just having fun here)
 
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