Ford 3.5L at 31k miles / SuperTech 5w-20 at 11.8k miles

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Here's the first UOA on my 2018 Taurus; naturally aspirated 3.5L Cyclone v-6.
Mix of city/hwy driving. Was in the crankcase for about a year.

Rich (BB code):
Veh Miles       31k
OCI miles       11.8k      
filter          TG
oil brnd        ST
oil grade       5w-20
oil base        conv

Alum            5
Chromium        0
Iron            9
Copper          6
Lead            0
Tin             0
Moly            39
Nickle          0
Manganese       3
Silver          0
Titanium        0
Potassium       0
Boron           42
Silicon         38
Sodium          3
Calcium         1396
Magnesium       435
Phos            758
Zinc            876
Barium            0

Vis at 210F     54.0
Vis at 100C     8.49
Flash Point     440
Fuel            <.5
Antifreeze      0
Water           0
Insolubles      .2

As you can see, conventional ST 5w-20 is more than up to the task. Nearly 12k miles on dino, with a Fram TG filter, and the wear rates are admirably low. I will probably go to 15k miles on next OCI.

If not for the water pump being internal, these engines would be my pick for nearly any application other than a towing truck. They are powerful, incredibly smooth, and decently fuel efficient.
Here's the first UOA on my 2018 Taurus; naturally aspirated 3.5L Cyclone v-6.
Mix of city/hwy driving. Was in the crankcase for about a year.

Rich (BB code):
Veh Miles       31k
OCI miles       11.8k      
filter          TG
oil brnd        ST
oil grade       5w-20
oil base        conv

Alum            5
Chromium        0
Iron            9
Copper          6
Lead            0
Tin             0
Moly            39
Nickle          0
Manganese       3
Silver          0
Titanium        0
Potassium       0
Boron           42
Silicon         38
Sodium          3
Calcium         1396
Magnesium       435
Phos            758
Zinc            876
Barium            0

Vis at 210F     54.0
Vis at 100C     8.49
Flash Point     440
Fuel            <.5
Antifreeze      0
Water           0
Insolubles      .2

As you can see, conventional ST 5w-20 is more than up to the task. Nearly 12k miles on dino, with a Fram TG filter, and the wear rates are admirably low. I will probably go to 15k miles on next OCI.

If not for the water pump being internal, these engines would be my pick for nearly any application other than a towing truck. They are powerful, incredibly smooth, and decently fuel efficient.
I thought your taurus got wrecked and you got a fusion. You go back to a Taurus?
 
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Tit for tat. Look, Mr.Newton knows of what he speaks. Literally thousands upon thousands of UOA's. He's not talking just to hear himself. Look him up and maybe you'll see things differently.
All 3 of us have our own personal experiences, from wherever we worked etc. I've seen enough that I'd rather be on the side of caution. If the gm olm calculates the oil should be changed, I'm not going father than that. All I'm saying is that you don't put any value in what I or many others have experienced, so why should I put value in someone elses? If I didn't spend years working in garages, I wouldn't have my own opinions, for better or worse.
 
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All 3 of us have our own personal experiences, from wherever we worked etc. I've seen enough that I'd rather be on the side of caution. If the gm olm calculates the oil should be changed, I'm not going father than that. All I'm saying is that you don't put any value in what I or many others have experienced, so why should I put value in someone elses? If I didn't spend years working in garages, I wouldn't have my own opinions, for better or worse.
Not to mention, uoa's don't necessarily correlate with internal engine cleanliness. Nobody commented on my personally sludged up engine I posted on page 2. Have a reasonable percentage of the engines spoken of been torn down after these uoa's? I'm betting not. Not worth the investment just like the testing required to prove whether tbn actually means something.
 

dnewton3

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I thought your taurus got wrecked and you got a fusion. You go back to a Taurus?
We had two; now down to one. My wife totaled her 2018 Taurus (beautiful White Gold color). I still have my 2018 Taurus (white - not ugly, but not nearly as pretty as hers was). My wife kinda had a run of "bad luck" (that's what we call it to keep the marriage intact )...

- Wifey totaled a really nice, clean, well-running 2005 Grand Marquis, with 240k miles on it. Truly wish that was still with us.
- Got her the new 2018 Gold Taurus; she totaled that in a snow storm, literally less than a year old when wrecked.
- Got her a nice used 2017 Fusion (same White Gold color as her Taurus); she totaled that in less than a year.
- now she drives a used 2017 Silver Fusion ... fingers crossed ...
 
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We had two; now down to one. My wife totaled her 2018 Taurus (beautiful White Gold color). I still have my 2018 Taurus (white - not ugly, but not nearly as pretty as hers was). My wife kinda had a run of "bad luck" (that's what we call it to keep the marriage intact )...

- Wifey totaled a really nice, clean, well-running 2005 Grand Marquis, with 240k miles on it. Truly wish that was still with us.
- Got her the new 2018 Gold Taurus; she totaled that in a snow storm, literally less than a year old when wrecked.
- Got her a nice used 2017 Fusion (same White Gold color as her Taurus); she totaled that in less than a year.
- now she drives a used 2017 Silver Fusion ... fingers crossed ...
I hope some serious conversations were had but I have a feeling it wouldn’t do any good.
 

dnewton3

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All 3 of us have our own personal experiences, from wherever we worked etc. I've seen enough that I'd rather be on the side of caution. If the gm olm calculates the oil should be changed, I'm not going father than that. All I'm saying is that you don't put any value in what I or many others have experienced, so why should I put value in someone elses? If I didn't spend years working in garages, I wouldn't have my own opinions, for better or worse.
There is value in what you say; all experiences have some merit. But you only see the failures; you don't see the thousands of success stories that drive right past your shop. Your experience, while valid, is likely biased because most often, you're going to see things with problems. When I was a cop for 25 years, I had to constantly remind myself that not all human beings are garbage, but the nature of my job had a propensity to bring me into contact with the lessor of life frequently. Not all people are bad; not even those that call for help. But NO ONE calls "911" when they are having a good day! So your job working in a garage all those years is predicated on some amount of bias, whether you see it or not.


Not to mention, uoa's don't necessarily correlate with internal engine cleanliness. Nobody commented on my personally sludged up engine I posted on page 2. Have a reasonable percentage of the engines spoken of been torn down after these uoa's? I'm betting not. Not worth the investment just like the testing required to prove whether tbn actually means something.
I agree; and didn't I mention that? There is some info in a UOA that can give you decent intel into how clean things may be; the soot and insolubles values are a view of the oil condition, and we can take an inference from that as to the general nature of the engine cleanliness. But that info should not be viewed in a vacuum; you should consider that info with other info as well. How does the engine series respond historically overall? What has been the general nature of the care of the vehicle? What other indicators (visual, audible, PCs, etc) go along with the soot/insoluble data to either confirm or confound the intel?

There are examples we can see which make my point and yours together.
- This engine (Ford Cylclone) is not known to be a sludger; runs very clean historically and teardowns rarely show any issues in terms of leaving heavy deposits. These visual indications are often echoed in very good UOA cleanliness data (low soot / low insolube counts).
- The GM 6.6L Duramax was very clean running, even though it was a diesel. Yes - it would soot up the oil, but it did so at a rate which was reasonably slow, and didn't seem to have issues with sludge mainly because the oil system was well designed; few places to pool and the thermal energy transfer was very efficient which kept the oil temps well in control, which means even conventional oil didn't get "too hot".

- Some older Toyota engines were known to be heavy sludgers; this was generally accepted to be true as a result of running the heads very hot by design, to reduce CO emmissions (at the expense of the oil getting very hot up in the heads).
- The old Saturn SL2 engines, by design, had no oil drain-back in the ring pack. The oil would sit on the rings after shut down and coke badly. You could use syn oils to postpone the effect, but even they would become susceptible, albeit after a longer period.

In these examples, the OEM OCI recommendation is not really accurate. The Cylclone and Dmax can go much further, with very little risk of contamination, all while seeing less wear. Yet the Toyota and Saturn engines were at risk, even using the OEM oil change cycle; they sludged up faster than expected and caused many tens of thousands of unhappy owners.

Additionally, engine lubes today are very, very good at holding soot/insolubles in suspension. These aren't the old days when the additives were poor and stuff fell out of the oil upon shutdown. Further, engines today run much, much cleaner in terms of combustion than they did before. Admittedly, some design choices (such as DI vs. PFI) may lead to heavily carbon'd intake vavles, but that's not anything the oil can solve anyway; it's a fuel-delivery issue. So, when you combine a very capable lube with a clean running engine, it's VERY unlikely there's going to be sludge accumulating in the engine.


The manufacturer's OCI recommendations are, by nature, conservative. They don't pay for maintenace costs; they only pay for warranty claims. So it's a no-brainer for them to have the owner pay out-of-pocket expenses for oil changes; costs the OEM nothing and THEY get the "cheap insurance". Yet, the trend is slowly turning. We're seeing many OEM give longer and longer warranty periods, all while using IOLMs which are showing longer OCIs, relative to the old 3k and 5k mile values seen in the owner's manuals. But, all these OEM recommendations are just that; they are a suggestion based on conservative means and a total lack of knowledge for how any single particular car is cared for. They have to write these OCIs for the masses, not for individuals.

Go back to my comments much earlier ... There are three kinds of "PM" maintenance
Preventative maintenance: you service things based on pre-determined guesses for mass use
Predictive maintenance: you service your personal equipment based on unique data; the more tools properly used, the more accurate your service
Panic maintenacne: run it 'til it breaks, and revel in your unplanned downtime and unexpected expenses

I practice Predictive maintenance. I use all the tools I have (UOAs, both micro and macro data driven; PCs when warranted; visual observations; audible observations; mass-market history of the equipment, etc) to glean an accurate, wide view of the total picture.
- I know that SAE studies have shown very good correlation between UOA wear data and PC data; if the UOA wear data is good, it's very likely that the PCs are acceptable
- I know that while PCs give a total view of the entire sump contamination by size, it tells me nothing about composition
- I know that UOAs, which only give a view of small particulate, give me understanding of elemental composition (wear metals, additives, etc)
- I know that UOAs give me a good view of contamination (soot and insolubles, coolant, silica, fuel) which lend an understanding to oil cleanliess, and if the oil is reasonably clean, it's unlikely that the engine is dirty.
- I know the mass market history of my engines; I research them in SAE articles, YT videos, and industry news sources
- I "look, listen, and feel" as to how my equipment is running
- I pull valves covers, or pop open fill ports, and look inside with a bore scope
- I can do compression checks; not often necessary, but a useful tool is something indicates a problem with rings/cylinders
- I do filter disections upon removal; looking at general contamination loading and capacity reserve
- I have (literally) tens of thousands of engine/tranny/differential UOAs to drawn macro data from; I am trained in statistical process quality control analysis and worked as a QE for 10 years
- I have a decade of industrial maintenance supervision under my belt; I oversaw the direct care of massive boilers, steam turbines, power-plant operations, waste treatment operations, huge chiller systems, massive HVAC steam coil systems, overhead crane installation and maintenance, plant-wide conveyor systems and gearbox drive systems, etc ...


I do NOT advocate for someone to blindly just extend their OCIs into the abyss with no forethought or vision. It's completely accurate to say that following the OEM OCI is highly likley (though not assured) to give good service life. But one can, with diligence, extend the OCIs very safely, if you have the info and intelligence to use a multitude of observational tools, and understand the risks/rewards of doing so. When I recommend someone extend their OCI, it's because not only did I look at their one or two UOAs, but I know the history of the equipment series (be it an engine, tranny, or diff), AND I have typically well more than enough macro data to know what "normal" is for that piece of equipment.

This is my personal 2018 Taurus UOA.
- I know, without any doubt whatsoever, that these 3.5L naturally aspirated Cyclone engines run very clean and don't sludge up.
- I know, without any doubt, that these engines wear very well.
- I know the only true enemy to these engines is the water pump placement; it will eventually leak coolant into the oil, at some point, due to the pump being internal.
- I know that the coolant intrusion cannot be stopped, or even altered, by the selection of oil base stock, nor the OCI duration.
- I know that there are two things I can do to try "predict" the water pump failulre; watch the coolant level closely and look for coolant contamination in the UOA
- I know that extending my conventional oil OCI out to 12k miles is safe, and probably 15k miles as my next stop. Using syn lubes every 5k miles or 10k miles is a completely waste of money because the more expensive oil and shorter OCIs do absolubely nothing to reduce wear over the lesser cost, longer duration OCI; macro data proves this beyond ANY doubt and my personal UOA anecdotally confirms it
- I know that ouputs matter way more than inputs; I care more about the final score of a game than the starting roster of any team. What comes out of the bottle is far less telling that what comes out of the crankcase. Inputs are predictors; outputs are results. Predictions can be wrong, but results NEVER lie.
 
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There is value in what you say; all experiences have some merit. But you only see the failures; you don't see the thousands of success stories that drive right past your shop. Your experience, while valid, is likely biased because most often, you're going to see things with problems. When I was a cop for 25 years, I had to constantly remind myself that not all human beings are garbage, but the nature of my job had a propensity to bring me into contact with the lessor of life frequently. Not all people are bad; not even those that call for help. But NO ONE calls "911" when they are having a good day! So your job working in a garage all those years is predicated on some amount of bias, whether you see it or not.



I agree; and didn't I mention that? There is some info in a UOA that can give you decent intel into how clean things may be; the soot and insolubles values are a view of the oil condition, and we can take an inference from that as to the general nature of the engine cleanliness. But that info should not be viewed in a vacuum; you should consider that info with other info as well. How does the engine series respond historically overall? What has been the general nature of the care of the vehicle? What other indicators (visual, audible, PCs, etc) go along with the soot/insoluble data to either confirm or confound the intel?

There are examples we can see which make my point and yours together.
- This engine (Ford Cylclone) is not known to be a sludger; runs very clean historically and teardowns rarely show any issues in terms of leaving heavy deposits. These visual indications are often echoed in very good UOA cleanliness data (low soot / low insolube counts).
- The GM 6.6L Duramax was very clean running, even though it was a diesel. Yes - it would soot up the oil, but it did so at a rate which was reasonably slow, and didn't seem to have issues with sludge mainly because the oil system was well designed; few places to pool and the thermal energy transfer was very efficient which kept the oil temps well in control, which means even conventional oil didn't get "too hot".

- Some older Toyota engines were known to be heavy sludgers; this was generally accepted to be true as a result of running the heads very hot by design, to reduce CO emmissions (at the expense of the oil getting very hot up in the heads).
- The old Saturn SL2 engines, by design, had no oil drain-back in the ring pack. The oil would sit on the rings after shut down and coke badly. You could use syn oils to postpone the effect, but even they would become susceptible, albeit after a longer period.

In these examples, the OEM OCI recommendation is not really accurate. The Cylclone and Dmax can go much further, with very little risk of contamination, all while seeing less wear. Yet the Toyota and Saturn engines were at risk, even using the OEM oil change cycle; they sludged up faster than expected and caused many tens of thousands of unhappy owners.

Additionally, engine lubes today are very, very good at holding soot/insolubles in suspension. These aren't the old days when the additives were poor and stuff fell out of the oil upon shutdown. Further, engines today run much, much cleaner in terms of combustion than they did before. Admittedly, some design choices (such as DI vs. PFI) may lead to heavily carbon'd intake vavles, but that's not anything the oil can solve anyway; it's a fuel-delivery issue. So, when you combine a very capable lube with a clean running engine, it's VERY unlikely there's going to be sludge accumulating in the engine.


The manufacturer's OCI recommendations are, by nature, conservative. They don't pay for maintenace costs; they only pay for warranty claims. So it's a no-brainer for them to have the owner pay out-of-pocket expenses for oil changes; costs the OEM nothing and THEY get the "cheap insurance". Yet, the trend is slowly turning. We're seeing many OEM give longer and longer warranty periods, all while using IOLMs which are showing longer OCIs, relative to the old 3k and 5k mile values seen in the owner's manuals. But, all these OEM recommendations are just that; they are a suggestion based on conservative means and a total lack of knowledge for how any single particular car is cared for. They have to write these OCIs for the masses, not for individuals.

Go back to my comments much earlier ... There are three kinds of "PM" maintenance
Preventative maintenance: you service things based on pre-determined guesses for mass use
Predictive maintenance: you service your personal equipment based on unique data; the more tools properly used, the more accurate your service
Panic maintenacne: run it 'til it breaks, and revel in your unplanned downtime and unexpected expenses

I practice Predictive maintenance. I use all the tools I have (UOAs, both micro and macro data driven; PCs when warranted; visual observations; audible observations; mass-market history of the equipment, etc) to glean an accurate, wide view of the total picture.
- I know that SAE studies have shown very good correlation between UOA wear data and PC data; if the UOA wear data is good, it's very likely that the PCs are acceptable
- I know that while PCs give a total view of the entire sump contamination by size, it tells me nothing about composition
- I know that UOAs, which only give a view of small particulate, give me understanding of elemental composition (wear metals, additives, etc)
- I know that UOAs give me a good view of contamination (soot and insolubles, coolant, silica, fuel) which lend an understanding to oil cleanliess, and if the oil is reasonably clean, it's unlikely that the engine is dirty.
- I know the mass market history of my engines; I research them in SAE articles, YT videos, and industry news sources
- I "look, listen, and feel" as to how my equipment is running
- I pull valves covers, or pop open fill ports, and look inside with a bore scope
- I can do compression checks; not often necessary, but a useful tool is something indicates a problem with rings/cylinders
- I do filter disections upon removal; looking at general contamination loading and capacity reserve
- I have (literally) tens of thousands of engine/tranny/differential UOAs to drawn macro data from; I am trained in statistical process quality control analysis and worked as a QE for 10 years
- I have a decade of industrial maintenance supervision under my belt; I oversaw the direct care of massive boilers, steam turbines, power-plant operations, waste treatment operations, huge chiller systems, massive HVAC steam coil systems, overhead crane installation and maintenance, plant-wide conveyor systems and gearbox drive systems, etc ...


I do NOT advocate for someone to blindly just extend their OCIs into the abyss with no forethought or vision. It's completely accurate to say that following the OEM OCI is highly likley (though not assured) to give good service life. But one can, with diligence, extend the OCIs very safely, if you have the info and intelligence to use a multitude of observational tools, and understand the risks/rewards of doing so. When I recommend someone extend their OCI, it's because not only did I look at their one or two UOAs, but I know the history of the equipment series (be it an engine, tranny, or diff), AND I have typically well more than enough macro data to know what "normal" is for that piece of equipment.

This is my personal 2018 Taurus UOA.
- I know, without any doubt whatsoever, that these 3.5L naturally aspirated Cyclone engines run very clean and don't sludge up.
- I know, without any doubt, that these engines wear very well.
- I know the only true enemy to these engines is the water pump placement; it will eventually leak coolant into the oil, at some point, due to the pump being internal.
- I know that the coolant intrusion cannot be stopped, or even altered, by the selection of oil base stock, nor the OCI duration.
- I know that there are two things I can do to try "predict" the water pump failulre; watch the coolant level closely and look for coolant contamination in the UOA
- I know that extending my conventional oil OCI out to 12k miles is safe, and probably 15k miles as my next stop. Using syn lubes every 5k miles or 10k miles is a completely waste of money because the more expensive oil and shorter OCIs do absolubely nothing to reduce wear over the lesser cost, longer duration OCI; macro data proves this beyond ANY doubt and my personal UOA anecdotally confirms it
- I know that ouputs matter way more than inputs; I care more about the final score of a game than the starting roster of any team. What comes out of the bottle is far less telling that what comes out of the crankcase. Inputs are predictors; outputs are results. Predictions can be wrong, but results NEVER lie.
I agree with much of what you are saying for sure. I think part of my experience difference than you is the cold weather. Lots of people around here drive 5-10 minutes each way to work, 3-7 minute trips to stores on top of that in weather down to minus 20. You can sometimes smell the gas on the dipstick. Lots of these people could take a year to go 3k miles and they do an oil change every 2 years. Sure it's low mileage but the oil might be trash with all that fuel and moisture in it.
I agree that the Ford 3.5 is easy on oil (until water pump failure). I have done the last few on the sister in laws 2008 edge....she wants to drive it off a cliff so oil is changed very infrequently with lots of short trips and cold weather. Oil was completely black on the stick but looking in the oil fill cap it appears unlikely to have any sludge inside yet. It's also not using much of anything...I upgraded it to Pennzoil platinum and a fram ultra over 2 years ago as a little extra insurance, however it lost 3 cylinders on the way here yesterday. Some research indicates the ecm may have fried 3 of the ignition coils, but we don't know for sure yet. It's definitely got a ton of fuel in the oil now and the catalyst is obviously not going to be happy.
This is one of the vehicles I try to help out with that I never pushed frequent oil changes because of the life expectancy of the vehicle. It was bound to have something along these lines come up soon which will write the vehicle off.
However I have different opinions when it comes to the in laws equinox with the inevitable timing chain failure, or my 2005 truck with 9600 hours (and 216k miles) on it that I want to get another 10 years out of if possible. Undercoating has kept the frame pretty well like new. It would be a good candidate for longer drains if it weren't for the sludge built up previously, that plugged the pcv compounding the problem. If my frequent oil changes clean enough of the sludge out I'll feel comfortable extending changes again but even then I'd never be able to go 12k. Right now with mostly highway and some idling and few short trips it was 50% oil life remaining at 3k miles. I'd be willing to go to 0% with the m1 0w40 if it was already clean inside. For now I'll change it at around 30% especially since that gets it done just before we get to the coldest part of the winter. I'll be doing this in my non heated/insulated garage.
I guess my conclusion is that there is an extreme variation in what mileage is a reasonable safe oci, based on what engine and conditions it is operated under.
 
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We had two; now down to one. My wife totaled her 2018 Taurus (beautiful White Gold color). I still have my 2018 Taurus (white - not ugly, but not nearly as pretty as hers was). My wife kinda had a run of "bad luck" (that's what we call it to keep the marriage intact )...

- Wifey totaled a really nice, clean, well-running 2005 Grand Marquis, with 240k miles on it. Truly wish that was still with us.
- Got her the new 2018 Gold Taurus; she totaled that in a snow storm, literally less than a year old when wrecked.
- Got her a nice used 2017 Fusion (same White Gold color as her Taurus); she totaled that in less than a year.
- now she drives a used 2017 Silver Fusion ... fingers crossed ...
That's definitely a run of bad luck. I still have my 18 Taurus. 26k miles. Thinking about selling it back to ford because I never drive it.i like driving my old stuff.
 
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I agree with much of what you are saying for sure. I think part of my experience difference than you is the cold weather. Lots of people around here drive 5-10 minutes each way to work, 3-7 minute trips to stores on top of that in weather down to minus 20. You can sometimes smell the gas on the dipstick. Lots of these people could take a year to go 3k miles and they do an oil change every 2 years. Sure it's low mileage but the oil might be trash with all that fuel and moisture in it.
I agree that the Ford 3.5 is easy on oil (until water pump failure). I have done the last few on the sister in laws 2008 edge....she wants to drive it off a cliff so oil is changed very infrequently with lots of short trips and cold weather. Oil was completely black on the stick but looking in the oil fill cap it appears unlikely to have any sludge inside yet. It's also not using much of anything...I upgraded it to Pennzoil platinum and a fram ultra over 2 years ago as a little extra insurance, however it lost 3 cylinders on the way here yesterday. Some research indicates the ecm may have fried 3 of the ignition coils, but we don't know for sure yet. It's definitely got a ton of fuel in the oil now and the catalyst is obviously not going to be happy.
This is one of the vehicles I try to help out with that I never pushed frequent oil changes because of the life expectancy of the vehicle. It was bound to have something along these lines come up soon which will write the vehicle off.
However I have different opinions when it comes to the in laws equinox with the inevitable timing chain failure, or my 2005 truck with 9600 hours (and 216k miles) on it that I want to get another 10 years out of if possible. Undercoating has kept the frame pretty well like new. It would be a good candidate for longer drains if it weren't for the sludge built up previously, that plugged the pcv compounding the problem. If my frequent oil changes clean enough of the sludge out I'll feel comfortable extending changes again but even then I'd never be able to go 12k. Right now with mostly highway and some idling and few short trips it was 50% oil life remaining at 3k miles. I'd be willing to go to 0% with the m1 0w40 if it was already clean inside. For now I'll change it at around 30% especially since that gets it done just before we get to the coldest part of the winter. I'll be doing this in my non heated/insulated garage.
I guess my conclusion is that there is an extreme variation in what mileage is a reasonable safe oci, based on what engine and conditions it is operated under.
Do you really think that let's say Toyota as an example is basically going with 10k mile OCI's almost across their whole model lineup if it's a chancey proposition? No, of course not, all OEM's go with conservative intervals. They protect themselves that way. They know the oil change interval could go somewhat longer. Do you not think likewise that OLM's are also calibrated conservatively. C'mon man.
 

dnewton3

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@dnewton3 im curious to know what oci interval the oil life monitor prompts to change the oil at
Unfortunately I don't recall what it was. Because of CVD, my driving was reduced by working from home, and therefore the OCI went over the "one year" mark, so the IOLM was reset sometime last year, even though there was no OCI. I do know that when I reset it last month, there was 40% remaining, but that's not really helpful without knowing what % was "consumed" in the previous set.
 
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Do you really think that let's say Toyota as an example is basically going with 10k mile OCI's almost across their whole model lineup if it's a chancey proposition? No, of course not, all OEM's go with conservative intervals. They protect themselves that way. They know the oil change interval could go somewhat longer. Do you not think likewise that OLM's are also calibrated conservatively. C'mon man.
Yes, under the circumstances I outlined right above....10k miles can take a couple years. In our climate that is risky and that's why Toyota outlines "severe service" which includes those conditions, but some people will miss that or come on here and read your recommendation to go 10k miles no matter what and then they can have issues. C'mon man. The manufacturer knows that their intervals will easily get them beyond the warranty period and they aren't exactly worried about 200k miles and beyond. I honestly cannot believe you're even saying "c'mon man". Wow.
You're beginning to make me think you are one of those customers I would have pointed out the chunks of sludge and rust on the dipstick and they'd just say "nah they said it'd be fine for 10k".
 
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New Braunfels
Yes, under the circumstances I outlined right above....10k miles can take a couple years. In our climate that is risky and that's why Toyota outlines "severe service" which includes those conditions, but some people will miss that or come on here and read your recommendation to go 10k miles no matter what and then they can have issues. C'mon man. The manufacturer knows that their intervals will easily get them beyond the warranty period and they aren't exactly worried about 200k miles and beyond. I honestly cannot believe you're even saying "c'mon man". Wow.
You're beginning to make me think you are one of those customers I would have pointed out the chunks of sludge and rust on the dipstick and they'd just say "nah they said it'd be fine for 10k".
No one said 10 k no matter what. Their is a year limit on the factory recommendEd interval and this is a built in conservative measure.
Which works pretty well to limit mileage in severe usage. For example my Rx 350 may go 5-6k a year so an annual oil change is perfectly safe even for for wife to use for local shopping and errands around town Moar of the time with the occasional 60-100 mile round trip into San Antonio or less frequent out of town trips.
While my Tacoma goes 20k plus a year, I change at 10k and it takes 6 months or less to get there. 10k is a breeze because that takes a lot of long trips to accumulate.
 
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Yes, under the circumstances I outlined right above....10k miles can take a couple years. In our climate that is risky and that's why Toyota outlines "severe service" which includes those conditions, but some people will miss that or come on here and read your recommendation to go 10k miles no matter what and then they can have issues. C'mon man. The manufacturer knows that their intervals will easily get them beyond the warranty period and they aren't exactly worried about 200k miles and beyond. I honestly cannot believe you're even saying "c'mon man". Wow.
You're beginning to make me think you are one of those customers I would have pointed out the chunks of sludge and rust on the dipstick and they'd just say "nah they said it'd be fine for 10k".
Na, actually I use Amsoil SS, 12-15k mile oci's. I'd never go to your shop to get suckered in. You'd probably try to sell me a new air filter and pcv every 5k along with the oil and filter. C'mon man...
 
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Do you really think that let's say Toyota as an example is basically going with 10k mile OCI's almost across their whole model lineup if it's a chancey proposition? No, of course not, all OEM's go with conservative intervals. They protect themselves that way. They know the oil change interval could go somewhat longer. Do you not think likewise that OLM's are also calibrated conservatively. C'mon man.
Toyota doesn’t care about you, the consumer, one bit after that warranty. And that 10,000 mile interval will get you through that warranty while also satisfying CaFE regulations for them. It’s part marketing (less maintenance expense), it’s part CAFE, it’s part warranty division, and it’s part engineering, it’s part regional considerations. It’s also why oil change intervals for each manufacturer can be different in different countries (different considerations to account for). It’s not always about what’s best for the engine. It’s a business, and Toyota, or BMW, or whomever, doesn’t care about you outside that warranty.

Extend away. Particle count, uoa, input output, SAE article, Whatever. But Toyota doesn’t care one single bit. You’re someone else’s problem after that warranty (you’re your own problem). And I’m not saying extending it out for YOU OR someone else is the wrong thing. But BMW, Toyota, or whoever does not care. They only care about getting you out of their hands.
 
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Toyota doesn’t care about you, the consumer, one bit after that warranty. And that 10,000 mile interval will get you through that warranty while also satisfying CaFE regulations for them. It’s part marketing (less maintenance expense), it’s part CAFE, it’s part warranty division, and it’s part engineering, it’s part regional considerations. It’s also why oil change intervals for each manufacturer can be different in different countries (different considerations to account for). It’s not always about what’s best for the engine. It’s a business, and Toyota, or BMW, or whomever, doesn’t care about you outside that warranty.

Extend away. Particle count, uoa, input output, SAE article, Whatever. But Toyota doesn’t care one single bit. You’re someone else’s problem after that warranty (you’re your own problem). And I’m not saying extending it out for YOU OR someone else is the wrong thing. But BMW, Toyota, or whoever does not care. They only care about getting you out of their hands.
If true I wonder why they design their engines (and vehicles) so well that they usually greatly exceed the warranty? I mean, I have over 450,000 miles on my old Sienna and over 300,000 miles on the ECHO. If they really only care about getting me out of their hands why not design an engine that lasts only up until the warranty and then fails?

Same thing for my old Honda (and my old BMW for that matter). I used to travel to California quite often for my job and there are many, many Toyota vehicles out there with well over 400k on the odometer. Lots of them.
 
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If true I wonder why they design their engines (and vehicles) so well that they usually greatly exceed the warranty? I mean, I have over 450,000 miles on my old Sienna and over 300,000 miles on the ECHO. If they really only care about getting me out of their hands why not design an engine that lasts only up until the warranty and then fails?

Same thing for my old Honda (and my old BMW for that matter).
Because you bought two. Lol. Because you’re going to have kids and tell them to buy Toyota. Because your neighbor has one and told you how good it was. Because Toyota made the decision to build a high quality vehicle, and that works for them. Because Toyota’s (most of them) will run for well past a warranty on 10,000 mile intervals (for some people), and Toyota will hedge their bet by specifying a 5,000 mile interval for almost every driving condition OTHER THAN IDEAL. That would mean cold weather. Hot weather, dusty conditions, extended idling, towing, hauling, city, short trips, hills. They consider all that^^outside of ideal driving or “normal” driving.

Because after the third owner hits at 120,000 miles for most of their cars, it’s way past game over for Toyota’s obligations for the original buyer. That’s a fact.
 
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