Ford 3.5L at 50k mi / HPL 5w-30 at 10k mi

[dnewton3]

My most recent extended run in my 2018 Taurus n/a 3.5L. Typical mixed use; city and highway.

To help this make sense, here is an OCI history:
- at 1k miles, the oil/filter was changed with dino ST (first "break in" flush of the OEM machining remnants)
- at 5k miles, the oil/filter was changed with dino ST (second "break in" flush)
- at 10k miles, the oil/filter was changed with dino ST
- at 20k miles, the oil/filter was changed with dino ST
- at 32k miles, the oil/filter was changed with dino ST; first UOA on the 12k mile oil run, see below
- at 40k miles, the oil/filter was changed with HPL (no UOA on the 8k mile oil run)
- at 50k miles, the oil was left in but filter changed; second UOA with 10k mile oil run, see below

The shift to 30 grade HPL is merely a matter of coincidence; it was not a planned change- the oil came from the HPL openhouse last year.

* There are a few differences between the UOAs; first Blackstone and then WearCheck, so minor disparities should be ignored.
* Both the conventional ST and the premium HPL did very well at having low wear rates; a general trait of the Cyclone engines.
* The HPL is still in the engine; planning on running another 10k miles and then sample at 20k miles.
* The filter was changed at 51k miles (having 11k miles on the filter and HPL oil). There was absolutely no sludge or carbon of any kind in the filter after 11k miles; very clean running engines, these Cyclones! The filter was changed as a precaution to see how much contamination was present; none, essentially. That made me feel good about extending the OCI further. Had I known how good it was, I would have left it on there to 20k.
* Oil was topped off at 51k miles only to make up for the lost volume of the filter change. There was no appreciable oil loss during the 11k miles of use. The volatility of this HPL lube is incredibly low.

Veh Miles 32k 50k
OCI miles 11.8k 10k
filter TG XG
oil brand ST HPL
oil grade 5w-20 5w-30
oil base conv grp III
UOA svc Blkstn WrChk
Oil chng? Yes No
Filter chng? Yes Yes

Alum 5 5
Chromium 0 0
Iron 9 8
Copper 6 4
Lead 0 0
Tin 0 0
Moly 39 479
Nickle 0 0
Manganese 3 2
Silver 0 0
Titanium 0 1
Potassium 0 1
Boron 42 21
Silicon 38 25
Sodium 3 4
Calcium 1396 1183
Magnesium 435 1857
Phos 758 648
Zinc 876 842
Barium 0 0

Vis at 100C 8.49 10.4
Flash Point 44 x
Fuel  Antifreeze 0 0
Water 0 0
Insols/soot .2 .1
Nitration x 16.9
Sulfation x 40.1 
Oxidation x 39.6
Acid x 2.0
Base x 10.6

 

[STW]

Great looking numbers especially for the time on the oil. It will be interesting to see how it comes back at 20K but as you stated the engine architecture probably has something to do with the low wear as well. Thanks for the history and looking forward to see how the HPL stands up for another 10K.

 

[Nesterenko]

My most recent extended run in my 2018 Taurus n/a 3.5L. Typical mixed use; city and highway.

To help this make sense, here is an OCI history:
- at 1k miles, the oil/filter was changed with dino ST (first "break in" flush of the OEM machining remnants)
- at 5k miles, the oil/filter was changed with dino ST (second "break in" flush)
- at 10k miles, the oil/filter was changed with dino ST
- at 20k miles, the oil/filter was changed with dino ST
- at 32k miles, the oil/filter was changed with dino ST; first UOA on the 12k mile oil run, see below
- at 40k miles, the oil/filter was changed with HPL (no UOA on the 8k mile oil run)
- at 50k miles, the oil was left in but filter changed; second UOA with 10k mile oil run, see below

The shift to 30 grade HPL is merely a matter of coincidence; it was not a planned change- the oil came from the HPL openhouse last year.

* There are a few differences between the UOAs; first Blackstone and then WearCheck, so minor disparities should be ignored.
* Both the conventional ST and the premium HPL did very well at having low wear rates; a general trait of the Cyclone engines.
* The HPL is still in the engine; planning on running another 10k miles and then sample at 20k miles.
* The filter was changed at 51k miles (having 11k miles on the filter and HPL oil). There was absolutely no sludge or carbon of any kind in the filter after 11k miles; very clean running engines, these Cyclones! The filter was changed as a precaution to see how much contamination was present; none, essentially. That made me feel good about extending the OCI further. Had I known how good it was, I would have left it on there to 20k.
* Oil was topped off at 51k miles only to make up for the lost volume of the filter change. There was no appreciable oil loss during the 11k miles of use. The volatility of this HPL lube is incredibly low.

Veh Miles 32k 50k
OCI miles 11.8k 10k
filter TG XG
oil brand ST HPL
oil grade 5w-20 5w-30
oil base conv grp III
UOA svc Blkstn WrChk
Oil chng? Yes No
Filter chng? Yes Yes

Alum 5 5
Chromium 0 0
Iron 9 8
Copper 6 4
Lead 0 0
Tin 0 0
Moly 39 479
Nickle 0 0
Manganese 3 2
Silver 0 0
Titanium 0 1
Potassium 0 1
Boron 42 21
Silicon 38 25
Sodium 3 4
Calcium 1396 1183
Magnesium 435 1857
Phos 758 648
Zinc 876 842
Barium 0 0

Vis at 100C 8.49 10.4
Flash Point 44 x
Fuel  Antifreeze 0 0
Water 0 0
Insols/soot .2 .1
Nitration x 16.9
Sulfation x 40.1
Oxidation x 39.6
Acid x 2.0
Base x 10.6

I didn't know the HPL was group 3

 

[benjamming]

What's the condition/usage of the engine air filter?

 

[OilUzer]

Good info. I feel better about bunch of Kirkland oil I recently bought for couple of my old(er) cars.

What is your main objective or long term goal? To extend the OCI, lower the cost, save time, have a clean and/or healthy engine, just experimenting or for fun? All or some of the above or any other reason? I know bunch overlap.

Not trying be smart ace just curious! I do a lot of experimentation to collect data or for fun and not a real purpose behind it ... and then I may decide something 2 years later.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Great report. The TBN is plenty strong, TAN is minimal, and oxidation is in check. I'd say you're good to go another 10,000 miles.

I didn't know the HPL was group 3

The standard PCMO and HDMO lines are group III with blends of group V POE and AN. In many cases, group III can perform as well or better than group IV with the exceptions of extreme cold starts, hence the premium cold climate oils are predominantly group IV PAO.

 

[dnewton3]

What's the condition/usage of the engine air filter?

Fine; has about 30k miles on it.
I installed a filter vacuum gauge on the airbox; the gauge indicates all is well within operation parameters.
The Si count in the UOA is indicating filtration is working fine.

 

[benjamming]

I didn't know how much Si in the formulations was additive.

 

[dnewton3]

What is your main objective or long term goal? To extend the OCI, lower the cost, save time, have a clean and/or healthy engine, just experimenting or for fun? All or some of the above or any other reason? I know bunch overlap.

I guess I'd say that my OCI extension goal is all of the above.

I'm a big propronent of getting a good ROI. To do so, you have to extend these lubes out to justify their costs. The HPL has an excellent cleaning additive package; that helps.

I like being able to show folks that their "cheap insurance" concepts regaring frequent OCIs is often just wasteful. Most of today's lubes (be they conventional or syn) are far more capable than most folks would believe.

I DO NOT advocate for blindly extending an OCI just upon my word. People need to investigate all the concerns and conditions going into a maintenance program for their equipment. Some vehicles and operational conditions do not lend themselves to longer OCIs; this isn't a one-size-fits-all approach I'm pushing for. What I'm trying to show people is that most any lube can easily go much further than you'd think and still safely protect an engine. The only way to know is to slowly stretch out the OCIs and then confirm engine health with UOAs, filter analysis, PC analysis, visual inspections, etc. One should NEVER just blindly double or triple an OCI as a guess.

 

[dnewton3]

I didn't know the HPL was group 3

I believe it's a mix of III, ANs and esters. But I cannot cram all that into the small area in the column of the block text data.
I'll check with Dave at HPL, but I think this is accurate.

 

[fantastic]

I share your fondness with the Taurus engine. I was happy when I heard they were bringing back the name tag. Your single digit iron wear on the, almost, 12,000 mile run adds more proof to that! Add to the fact you've seen no measurable sludge or carbon on your oil filters.

I'm hearing more & more how some don't ever see that happening (No Carbon on filter) with HPL oils. It appears it depends on the engine & landscape if you see carbon in the filter or not with HPL. Regardless, it's great that you're not seeing any carbon in your filter.

Potentially even more striking would be to compare wear rates on your 20k run on HPL to the 12k run of conventional oil.

I commend you for showing us there is no fear to push a bit further with our oils & we will be anxiously awaiting the 20k HPL UOA you post.

 

[labfan]

This engine likes anything you put in it.

 

[buster]

Pretty exceptional TBN retention and viscosity control. Strong base and low acid.

 

[TiGeo]

Fine; has about 30k miles on it.
I installed a filter vacuum gauge on the airbox; the gauge indicates all is well within operation parameters.
The Si count in the UOA is indicating filtration is working fine.

Those numbers are quite high compared to most UOAs I've seen with single digit values. The HPL VOAs I did (Euro 5W40) had about 10ppm Si but still...if this had a K&N filter folks here would be blaming it.

 

[TiGeo]

Great report. The TBN is plenty strong, TAN is minimal, and oxidation is in check. I'd say you're good to go another 10,000 miles.



The standard PCMO and HDMO lines are group III with blends of group V POE and AN. In many cases, group III can perform as well or better than group IV with the exceptions of extreme cold starts, hence the premium cold climate oils are predominantly group IV PAO.

Wayminut....group 3 is cool again?

 

[dnewton3]

... Add to the fact you've seen no measurable sludge or carbon on your oil filters.

I'm hearing more & more how some don't ever see that happening (No Carbon on filter) with HPL oils. It appears it depends on the engine & landscape if you see carbon in the filter or not with HPL. Regardless, it's great that you're not seeing any carbon in your filter.

The Ford Cyclone engines run fairly clean, and my car only had 40k miles on it when the HPL went in ... hence there was essentially nothing to clean up. So it's no surprise the filter had nothing worthy of reporting. The Fram Ultra did it's job well, and there was nothing remarkable about it upon cutting it open.

Conversely, a friend of mine (member here on BITOG) ran an old bottle of ARX* in his Honda Element with 140k miles on it. He ran it for 3k miles and pulled the filter off and cut it open; it was loaded with carbonaceous little bits and flakes of soot-packed gunk. Clearly, the ARX oil did a great job of cleaning his engine. But that's partly because there was plenty to clean up after 145k miles. He's also running HPL EC30 in his PIlot, and results are pending, but expects the same effect.

The amout of gunk which HPL products can clean out of an engine is directly in relation to the amount present before the HPL is used. Clean-running engines won't really bring out the entire potential, whereas dirty running engines will benefit greatly from the HPL cleaning abilities. Without doubt, using HPL is going to keep engines clean.


* NOTE: I had initially believed it to be HPL, but he contacted me and advised it was actually ARX used for that cleaning, so the info is updated above.

 

[dnewton3]

Those numbers are quite high compared to most UOAs I've seen with single digit values. The HPL VOAs I did (Euro 5W40) had about 10ppm Si but still...if this had a K&N filter folks here would be blaming it.

I didn't get a VOA on the oil, but looking at the two you had done (11 and 10 ppm of Si), and I seem to recall Dave saying that the anti-foaming agent will induce some Si readings; I would expect the PCEO product to have similar amounts in the virgin sample. Hence, if we take away the 10 from the 25 in this sample, it would be about 15ppm over 10k miles; not objectionable.

That does not explain the ST sample with 38ppm of Si. The long ST sample used for 12k miles was put in at 20k, and run to 32k. Around that same time at 20k miles, I believe I installed a new air filter with the vacuum gauge (so I could see what a virgin air filter did in terms of initial restriction). So maybe that air filter was a bit "loose" (porous) at the beginning and might explain the 38ppm? Just a guess on my part.

Regardless, the wear metals are low, so it's probably not an issue. I did take the intake tract apart and check for cranks/leaks and didn't see anything obvious. The air filter is a Fram standard unit; the orange foam seal is still quite pliable and intact. So at this point ... ... dunno.

 

[twX]

That does not explain the ST sample with 38ppm of Si. The long ST sample used for 12k miles was put in at 20k, and run to 32k. Around that same time at 20k miles, I believe I installed a new air filter with the vacuum gauge (so I could see what a virgin air filter did in terms of initial restriction). So maybe that air filter was a bit "loose" (porous) at the beginning and might explain the 38ppm? Just a guess on my part.

Air filter efficiency goes up a lot as the filter gets loaded up with dust. The rate of dust getting through the filter can go down by more than a factor of 10 over the life of the filter. This mostly happens during the first ~20% of the filter's life, if the filter is changed at an appropriate time based on restriction.

Since you changed the air filter just before that OCI run, higher silicon is expected. Silicon has effectively down down by almost 50% between those OCIs, and that's not even taking into account the high level of silicon in whatever leftover oil that wasn't changed out, which could amount to a extra few ppm.

I'd keep using that air filter until until you see a pressure drop of around 12" H2O, or silicon trending upwards on a UOA.

 

[TiGeo]

Air filter efficiency goes up a lot as the filter gets loaded up with dust. The rate of dust getting through the filter can go down by more than a factor of 10 over the life of the filter. This mostly happens during the first ~20% of the filter's life, if the filter is changed at an appropriate time based on restriction.

Since you changed the air filter just before that OCI run, higher silicon is expected. Silicon has effectively down down by almost 50% between those OCIs, and that's not even taking into account the high level of silicon in whatever leftover oil that wasn't changed out, which could amount to a extra few ppm.

I'd keep using that air filter until until you see a pressure drop of around 12" H2O, or silicon trending upwards on a UOA.

Wayminut....I thought that was only for high-flow filters like K&N...I've never heard of a paper filter requiring a loading period.

 

[twX]

Wayminut....I thought that was only for high-flow filters like K&N...I've never heard of a paper filter requiring a loading period.

It applies to all types of air filters. Here are a some examples of efficiency vs dust loading from a couple of different studies testing cellulose paper air filters with ISO or SAE fine dust. There is a slight drop in efficiency seen in figure 11 for high air flow rates when the filter is heavily loaded, due to trapped particles being released. It's also important to note that when the pressure drop across the filter increases, more unfiltered air will bypass the air filter if the air filter has a leaky seal.