Ferrari 812 Superfast Oil Consumption

[SR5]

I do have a very good relationship with both my local Ferrari dealership and with FNA (Ferrari North America). Many years ago FNA gave me the whole Enzo service manual. I gave them some service tips that I discovered, ways to do service in a more simple manor and with only one person as apposed to serveral technicians that the manual said were needed.

I bought a 575M and found that second gear was nearly impossible to engage when the engine was cold (75F). At 200 miles into the ownership of this brand new car I decided to change the gear oil to Redline. This issue was vastly improved. But FNA then happened to call me and offered to put in a new transmission. I told them of the improvement over the Shell recommended gear oil when I used the Redline. They still recommended a transmission change. I refused and said I was going to continue to use the Redline, that we needed some break-in of the transmission. It ended up being just fine and FNA became my good Friend.

Fast forwards to the known issue of oil “consumption” in the 812 Superfast. When I bought the car they actually asked me to look into it. Of those two upper hoses I think one goes into the air intake side of the circuit. The service manager told me that some cars have pooled oil at the top end that gets baked. I would not be surprised if a TSB comes out about this some time soon.

ali

Exactly, I'm sure you have a very good and honest relationship with FNA.

I mean how many people here on BITOG can say they have purchased multiple new Ferrari sports cars?

I'll get the ball rolling.......not me.

At your level, asking for a copy of the service manual is a very reasonable request. Keeping them informed of your findings, is good customer feedback.

 

[AEHaas]

Interesting statistic I just got today:
Ferrari (in Italy) essentially stopped taking orders for new cars. They have 27,000 orders (all sold of course) but can only produce a maximum of 10,000 cars a year.

Ali

 

[HankHill]

Interesting statistic I just got today:
Ferrari (in Italy) essentially stopped taking orders for new cars. They have 27,000 orders (all sold of course) but can only produce a maximum of 10,000 cars a year.

Ali

Covid pandemic supply shortages? Or just a backlog of orders from when they shut down for a while? Meh, probably both.. But what's your opinion of why?

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Interesting statistic I just got today:
Ferrari (in Italy) essentially stopped taking orders for new cars. They have 27,000 orders (all sold of course) but can only produce a maximum of 10,000 cars a year.

Ali

Crazy in this day and age where for manufacturers it is more and more difficult to make these performance cars legal. Go ferrari!!!

Just before covid kicked in i planned to visit maranello museum. Still plan to go there.

I also planned to visit chernobyl this year and now the war started. Maybe i should stop planning things

Between the enzo and the 812 sf, which one do you prefer more?

 

[AEHaas]

Both are probably correct but there has always been a waiting list of 6 - 12 -18 months for even the best customers.

Ali

 

[Gene K]

Covid pandemic supply shortages? Or just a backlog of orders from when they shut down for a while? Meh, probably both.. But what's your opinion of why?

I can't speak for Dr Haas but my uninformed opinion is it has as much to do with profiteers as the shortage. History repeats itself. We have seen this before with Ferrari. You have normal purchasers that don't want to wait and individuals who plan to capitalize on that. This drives up demand and you get increased orders at the very time supply is constrained.

 

[AEHaas]

"Between the enzo and the 812 sf, which one do you prefer more?"

Two different cars. The Enzo was a show piece and only driven when you actually wanted to "race" the car. No radio, no electric windows, no cup holders, you could not hear a radio if there was one, certainly unable to hear a cell phone if it rang... It just got too valuable to drive without worrying that somebody might pull out in front of you.

The 812 SF is like the 575M Maranello. Nice tone yet more quiet so you can in fact talk on the cell phone (though you should not do so). It has a radio but I actually have no idea how to use it. It is not user friendly. It has the conveniences of modern cars. It is relatively inexpensive so less of a worry to just drive around. And in reality it is a faster car than the Enzo. Also, as my SF has more of a subtle shape and color it does not attract as much attention and that is a good thing for many reasons.

Ali

 

[AEHaas]

Enzo had a sales rule that he would make 10% less cars than the demand. Rolex seems to be doing the same thing as you cannot buy a new one at any authorized dealer without waiting for months or even years while you sit on a "list". As with Ferrari you will probably never get a model in high demand unless you are already a very good customer.

The good news is that both places only sell the new items for list price. They are not selling over list as with a great many other things in demand. The used market is different. Some "new" used Rolex watches go for 3x or more than the list price.

Ali

 

[OilUzer]

I don't find a minor adjustmement in the level of an oil reservoir on a dry sump system that holds 14 quarts all that risky.

PS You do realize that Dr Haas has a fair amount of credibility?

1-
Dr. Used 20 grade instead of recommended 60 grade in another car. He is also using thinner than recommended oil in this car. Some of the real experts on this site told him not to.

2-
He is running 1" below the dipstick Min/Low mark.

What happened to "follow the owner's manual"? And "Ferrari and Engineers who designed and tested the car know best ..."?

I still don't believe that Ferrai will defer testing and/or modification(s) to any single user or dealer in another country. Any new issues or problems not previously detected will flow up and they (Ferrari) will eventually make mods and/or adjustments (TSBs, redesigns, etc.)

I still believe that dealer is not or should NOT be making any dipstick or oil level mods based on experiences and recommendations of a single driver!

right or wrong (regarding the revised dipstick marks), I would still fire that dealer. lol

If I had to summarize this entire thread, I would give an A++ to @OVERKILL
post #191:
"In the context of the fact that you never track your cars, both this modification and oil selection are likely extremely low risk."

Dr. Does NOT track his cars and according to him, drives VERY slow.
I'm sure if that was the intended design, Ferrai would make other major mods and re-design it to a Hyundai instead!

Based on his driving habits, he could even use Mazola Corn Oil and the the engine will survive!

Very informative thread. I had to go back and enjoyed reading some of the stuff that I had forgotten.

btw, where is SonOfJoe (later Sonofsonof)? Is he under a different name? I miss that guy. Very knowledgeable with real life work experience!

 

[AEHaas]

"Dr. Does NOT track his cars and according to him, drives VERY slow."

I believe a correction is needed here. I have raced cars, driven on the track with cars not even designed to be on the track and I at times get all I can out of my engines. One thing that makes me happy is to be first in line at a red light. God made rubber and Ali burns it. One oddball example was my Maybach 57 AMG. I've had it on the track at 155 MPH at Sebring and I went through 4 sets of tires during my 18,000 miles of ownership. 'One of the best cars we have ever owned.

'Enough said.

Ali

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Enzo had a sales rule that he would make 10% less cars than the demand. Rolex seems to be doing the same thing as you cannot buy a new one at any authorized dealer without waiting for months or even years while you sit on a "list". As with Ferrari you will probably never get a model in high demand unless you are already a very good customer.

The good news is that both places only sell the new items for list price. They are not selling over list as with a great many other things in demand. The used market is different. Some "new" used Rolex watches go for 3x or more than the list price.

Ali

Its new to hear that a used car becomes to valuable to drive. But yeah the enzo is a masterpiece. They crashed one 2 months ago in the netherlands by dealer mechanic.

I saw a video about this from jay leno on why he doest want to own a ferrari because of this.

 

[SR5]

btw, where is SonOfJoe (later Sonofsonof)? Is he under a different name? I miss that guy. Very knowledgeable with real life work experience!

Yes, I too miss the input from Joe90Guy/ SonOfJoe/ SonofSonof, he certainly knew his stuff.

 

[2EHA]

btw, where is SonOfJoe (later Sonofsonof)? Is he under a different name? I miss that guy. Very knowledgeable with real life work experience!

you can still find him

just not on here

 

[thastinger]

low tension rings, napier rings, big ring gaps, second ring gap is probably larger than the top ring. Pistons probably have vertical gas ports that really only seal the rings well under loads north of 60%. In this kind of "race engine" setup, it is common to pull a vacuum on the crankcase via either a mechanical belt driven vacuum pump or an electric version (not sure electric would work on a crankcase with this much volume though). Might ask around the stables to see if anyone has put a vacuum pump on one.

 

[OilUzer]

Yes, I too miss the input from Joe90Guy/ SonOfJoe/ SonofSonof, he certainly knew his stuff.

Also Shannow. I learned a lot from him. %80 of which I have already forgotten! Use it or lose it I guess and my engine doesn't ask me questions when I change the oil.
He is here but doesn't post as much. Good thing is you can walk down the road and knock on his door. No? lol

 

[mikecz]

you can still find him

just not on here

Then where?

 

[SR5]

Also Shannow. I learned a lot from him. %80 of which I have already forgotten! Use it or lose it I guess and my engine doesn't ask me questions when I change the oil.
He is here but doesn't post as much. Good thing is you can walk down the road and knock on his door. No? lol

Yes, great guy Shannow, just down the road from me, about 500 miles down the road that is. So a relaxing 5 hour drive away, oh wait, we are in flood, make that 5 days.

 

[2EHA]

Then where?

his name is on here

let the man live out his retirement in peace. if he wants to come back and get banned again he will

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

I do have a very good relationship with both my local Ferrari dealership and with FNA (Ferrari North America). Many years ago FNA gave me the whole Enzo service manual. I gave them some service tips that I discovered, ways to do service in a more simple manor and with only one person as apposed to serveral technicians that the manual said were needed.

I bought a 575M and found that second gear was nearly impossible to engage when the engine was cold (75F). At 200 miles into the ownership of this brand new car I decided to change the gear oil to Redline. This issue was vastly improved. But FNA then happened to call me and offered to put in a new transmission. I told them of the improvement over the Shell recommended gear oil when I used the Redline. They still recommended a transmission change. I refused and said I was going to continue to use the Redline, that we needed some break-in of the transmission. It ended up being just fine and FNA became my good Friend.

Fast forwards to the known issue of oil “consumption” in the 812 Superfast. When I bought the car they actually asked me to look into it. Of those two upper hoses I think one goes into the air intake side of the circuit. The service manager told me that some cars have pooled oil at the top end that gets baked. I would not be surprised if a TSB comes out about this some time soon.

ali

"Between the enzo and the 812 sf, which one do you prefer more?"

Two different cars. The Enzo was a show piece and only driven when you actually wanted to "race" the car. No radio, no electric windows, no cup holders, you could not hear a radio if there was one, certainly unable to hear a cell phone if it rang... It just got too valuable to drive without worrying that somebody might pull out in front of you.

The 812 SF is like the 575M Maranello. Nice tone yet more quiet so you can in fact talk on the cell phone (though you should not do so). It has a radio but I actually have no idea how to use it. It is not user friendly. It has the conveniences of modern cars. It is relatively inexpensive so less of a worry to just drive around. And in reality it is a faster car than the Enzo. Also, as my SF has more of a subtle shape and color it does not attract as much attention and that is a good thing for many reasons.

Ali

I love your cars, Dr. Haas @AEHaas and Thank you for sharing on here.