Engine auto start/stop feature ending soon.

Yes and South Carolina did away with State Car inspection in the late 80's if I recall. That was before exhaust sniffing but what a joke those days were. People with old cars that had problems simply had a small gas station buddy in town that was known to hand out inspection stickers like candy, as long as you handed the guy a $20 bill you got a sticker! One guy I remember had a stack of stickers in one hand and a stack of $20's in the other and cars lined up! He did not even look at your car back then.

My hope is North Carolina would do away with car and motorcycle inspections after Trump eases the EPA stronghold.
At least keep the safety inspections if not there's some dangerous vehicles out on the road that's a threat to all
 
Ya. I remember the days when Asheville NC had air pollution problems which were beginning to reach LA levels. I'm sure the residents my age miss those "good old days".
At least keep the safety inspections if not there's some dangerous vehicles out on the road that's a threat to all
I got pulled over for a tag light out once, funny thing it was on a retired Police car I had purchased at auction a few days prior. The Cop laughed when I asked hey why didn't y'all catch that burned out bulb before selling me the car? He let me go...but only after running my tag and all that wonderful stuff...

Police have all the power needed to keep an eye on a cars condition but the State can keeps its sniffer out my exhaust and I don't want them connecting anything to the computer of my car, bike or truck for smog or any other reason. IF a police notices me rolling coal or burning oil with blue smoke out the tail pipe then pull me over but just let me go about my business...
 
I used $100K as a fully burdened cost. Most production workers make much less than $100K.

If you want to discuss UAW costs that is an entirely different issue.

You would have selling and marketing costs with or without start/stop. It’s is not a drop in the ocean as you say. It’s a real cost that adds no value and most people disable anyway.

I spent a lifetime automating factories. Labor is a fraction of what it was 30 years ago.
You also used a non-union facility. Many manufacturing sites in the U.S. are unionized. We can't look at just one site, or one brand, in a vacuum.

Labor is absolutely not a fraction of what it was 30 years ago. Here's a link to the appropriate page of the Federal Reserve site that tracks this data (LINK). It's more costly than it was 30 years ago, and within a stone's throw of it's highest amount since the data was tracked.

We may be employing less line workers, but they earn more and have more costly benefits than they did 30 years ago.

Edit: From the 2025 Ford Annual Report - "Ford’s ability to maintain a competitive cost structure could be affected by labor or other constraints. The vast majority of the hourly employees in our manufacturing operations in the United States and Canada are represented by unions and covered by collective bargaining agreements. These agreements provide guaranteed wage and benefit levels throughout the contract term and some degree of income security, subject to certain conditions. Our recent labor contracts, including those with the International Union, United Automobile, Aerospace and Agricultural Implement Workers of America (“UAW”) in the United States and Unifor in Canada, have resulted in significant cost increases. If we are unable to offset these costs, it could have a significant adverse effect on our business. Some of our competitors do not have such collective bargaining agreements and are not subject to the same constraints".

2025 GM Annual Report - "Many manufacturers, including GM, have relatively high fixed labor costs as well as limitations on their ability to efficiently close facilities and reduce fixed costs, including as a result of collective bargaining agreements. In light of any excess capacity and high fixed costs, many industry participants have attempted to sell more vehicles by providing subsidized financing or leasing programs, offering marketing incentives, or reducing vehicle prices. As a result, we have had, and may in the future need, to offer similar incentives, which may result in vehicle prices that do not offset our costs, including any cost increases or the impact of adverse currency fluctuations or tariffs, which could affect our profitability."

As I said previously, removing the need for costly equipment on vehicles will help to bring costs down. However, increasing labor costs are putting more upward pressure on prices than start/stop equipment.
 
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I got pulled over for a tag light out once, funny thing it was on a retired Police car I had purchased at auction a few days prior. The Cop laughed when I asked hey why didn't y'all catch that burned out bulb before selling me the car? He let me go...but only after running my tag and all that wonderful stuff...

Police have all the power needed to keep an eye on a cars condition but the State can keeps its sniffer out my exhaust and I don't want them connecting anything to the computer of my car, bike or truck for smog or any other reason. IF a police notices me rolling coal or burning oil with blue smoke out the tail pipe then pull me over but just let me go about my business...
That was pretextual stop. It has nothing to do with the condition of your car.
 
I got pulled over for a tag light out once, funny thing it was on a retired Police car I had purchased at auction a few days prior. The Cop laughed when I asked hey why didn't y'all catch that burned out bulb before selling me the car? He let me go...but only after running my tag and all that wonderful stuff...

Police have all the power needed to keep an eye on a cars condition but the State can keeps its sniffer out my exhaust and I don't want them connecting anything to the computer of my car, bike or truck for smog or any other reason. IF a police notices me rolling coal or burning oil with blue smoke out the tail pipe then pull me over but just let me go about my business...
That sounds awful and is a reason I'm glad my state still does inspections. Cops here still pull people over for equipment problems but only if they're egregious.

If I have an older, well kept car with good mechanicals and poor cosmetics I don't want to get pulled over every morning on my way to work. With an inspection program I pick the date and time within the month that it's due, and also pick a reasonable mechanic.
 
That sounds awful and is a reason I'm glad my state still does inspections. Cops here still pull people over for equipment problems but only if they're egregious.

If I have an older, well kept car with good mechanicals and poor cosmetics I don't want to get pulled over every morning on my way to work. With an inspection program I pick the date and time within the month that it's due, and also pick a reasonable mechanic.

"Pretextual traffic stops are stops initiated by law enforcement for a minor traffic violation, with the actual purpose of investigating or searching for evidence of another, unrelated crime.

For example—

An officer pulls you over for a broken tail light or speeding, but their true intention may be to search the vehicle for drugs or other contraband..."

https://jmarshlaw.com/pretextual-traffic-stops/
 
I got pulled over for a tag light out once, funny thing it was on a retired Police car I had purchased at auction a few days prior. The Cop laughed when I asked hey why didn't y'all catch that burned out bulb before selling me the car? He let me go...but only after running my tag and all that wonderful stuff...

Police have all the power needed to keep an eye on a cars condition but the State can keeps its sniffer out my exhaust and I don't want them connecting anything to the computer of my car, bike or truck for smog or any other reason. IF a police notices me rolling coal or burning oil with blue smoke out the tail pipe then pull me over but just let me go about my business...
Hard to notice bad brakes or front end being a police officer
 
You also used a non-union facility. Many manufacturing sites in the U.S. are unionized. We can't look at just one site, or one brand, in a vacuum.

Labor is absolutely not a fraction of what it was 30 years ago. Here's a link to the appropriate page of the Federal Reserve site that tracks this data (LINK). It's more costly than it was 30 years ago, and within a stone's throw of it's highest amount since the data was tracked.

We may be employing less line workers, but they earn more and have more costly benefits than they did 30 years ago.

Edit: From the 2025 Ford Annual Report - "Ford’s ability to maintain a competitive cost structure could be affected by labor or other constraints. The vast majority of the hourly employees in our manufacturing operations in the United States and Canada are represented by unions and covered by collective bargaining agreements. These agreements provide guaranteed wage and benefit levels throughout the contract term and some degree of income security, subject to certain conditions. Our recent labor contracts, including those with the International Union, United Automobile, Aerospace and Agricultural Implement Workers of America (“UAW”) in the United States and Unifor in Canada, have resulted in significant cost increases. If we are unable to offset these costs, it could have a significant adverse effect on our business. Some of our competitors do not have such collective bargaining agreements and are not subject to the same constraints".

2025 GM Annual Report - "Many manufacturers, including GM, have relatively high fixed labor costs as well as limitations on their ability to efficiently close facilities and reduce fixed costs, including as a result of collective bargaining agreements. In light of any excess capacity and high fixed costs, many industry participants have attempted to sell more vehicles by providing subsidized financing or leasing programs, offering marketing incentives, or reducing vehicle prices. As a result, we have had, and may in the future need, to offer similar incentives, which may result in vehicle prices that do not offset our costs, including any cost increases or the impact of adverse currency fluctuations or tariffs, which could affect our profitability."

As I said previously, removing the need for costly equipment on vehicles will help to bring costs down. However, increasing labor costs are putting more upward pressure on prices than start/stop equipment.
Unit labor is a productivity measure not an actual cost.

Vehicle costs have skyrocketed but units of labor have not. Labor as a percentage of GDP has never been lower.

Here are some reference numbers for you. As a reference when I entered the industry in late 90’s Detroit number was usually tossed around as $2,000 per vehicle.

IMG_4982.webp


https://www.oliverwyman.com/our-exp...m%20has,key%20focus%20area%20for%20automakers.
 
Hard to notice bad brakes or front end being a police officer
Thats true but you see I don't feel a I need a Nanny State or a Police Officer to have anything to do with what I drive or what I do or don't do as I am an adult and I value FREEDOM above all be it a State inspection to a local HOA Karen telling me what I can park in my driveway and what I can't. As long as I am with-in the law I want to be allowed to go about my day.

My great State Of South Carolina for the most part stays out of my auto, truck. motorcycles business and is one reason I still call it home and I assume one of many reasons so many Northern Folks are moving South but sadly many bring that Nanny State mentality with them.

I have considered retiring to the Mountains of North Carolina but my wife is the one who reminded me she does not want to deal with car inspections and in SC we enjoy a $500 cap on State Car sales tax, I buy a $150K car in SC the most I pay is $500 sales tax cap. We own motorcycles and in SC I can still find Ethanol FREE 93 My bikes have cams, tunes, exhaust, IF I move to NC Big Brother will say your modded toys are not welcome...

I guess my wife and I are a less is more people. The less regulation the better as far as I see it but some folks are more comfortable with lots and lots of rules and regulations... Some States are full of people who simply need a few acres of land and prefer to be left alone...
 
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Unit labor is a productivity measure not an actual cost.

Vehicle costs have skyrocketed but units of labor have not. Labor as a percentage of GDP has never been lower.

Here are some reference numbers for you. As a reference when I entered the industry in late 90’s Detroit number was usually tossed around as $2,000 per vehicle.

View attachment 324324

https://www.oliverwyman.com/our-expertise/insights/2025/apr/why-automakers-must-focus-on-labor-cost-per-
From the FRED: "Unit labor costs (ULC) represent the cost of labor required to produce one unit of output."

From the Bureau of Labor Statistics. ULC= Total Compensation/Output

Labor costs are absolutely not a fraction of what they were. Outside of raw materials, manpower is the second largest cost. Again, we're not simply talking about the cost to actually build the car, although that is expensive. It's the cost to design, engineer, sell, etc. the vehicle. Removing some required equipment will help, but with labor costs what they are, cars are not going to get substantively cheaper unless OEMs can get raw materials cheaper or they sell them at a loss. With as leveraged as many OEMs are, they're not going to be able to sell them at a loss for long.
 
Thats true but you see I don't feel a I need a Nanny State or a Police Officer to have anything to do with what I drive or what I do or don't do as I am an adult and I value FREEDOM above all be it a State inspection to a local HOA Karen telling me what I can park in my driveway and what I can't. As long as I am with-in the law I want to be allowed to go about my day.

My great State Of South Carolina for the most part stays out of my auto, truck. motorcycles business and is one reason I still call it home and I assume one of many reasons so many Northern Folks are moving South but sadly many bring that Nanny State mentality with them.

I have considered retiring to the Mountains of North Carolina but my wife is the one who reminded me she does not want to deal with car inspections and in SC we enjoy a $500 cap on State Car sales tax, I buy a $150K car in SC the most I pay is $500 sales tax cap. We own motorcycles and in SC I can still find Ethanol FREE 93 My bikes have cams, tunes, exhaust, IF I move to NC Big Brother will say your modded toys are not welcome...

I guess my wife and I are a less is more people. The less regulation the better as far as I see it but some folks are more comfortable with lots and lots of rules and regulations... Some States are full of people who simply need a few acres of land and prefer to be left alone...
Thats true but you see I don't feel a I need a Nanny State or a Police Officer to have anything to do with what I drive or what I do or don't do as I am an adult and I value FREEDOM above all be it a State inspection to a local HOA Karen telling me what I can park in my driveway and what I can't. As long as I am with-in the law I want to be allowed to go about my day.

My great State Of South Carolina for the most part stays out of my auto, truck. motorcycles business and is one reason I still call it home and I assume one of many reasons so many Northern Folks are moving South but sadly many bring that Nanny State mentality with them.

I have considered retiring to the Mountains of North Carolina but my wife is the one who reminded me she does not want to deal with car inspections and in SC we enjoy a $500 cap on State Car sales tax, I buy a $150K car in SC the most I pay is $500 sales tax cap. We own motorcycles and in SC I can still find Ethanol FREE 93 My bikes have cams, tunes, exhaust, IF I move to NC Big Brother will say your modded toys are not welcome...

I guess my wife and I are a less is more people. The less regulation the better as far as I see it but some folks are more comfortable with lots and lots of rules and regulations... Some States are full of people who simply need a few acres of land and prefer to be left alone...
Its not you I'm concerned about it's the idiots who drive unsafe cars unsafely.
 
Thats true but you see I don't feel a I need a Nanny State or a Police Officer to have anything to do with what I drive or what I do or don't do as I am an adult and I value FREEDOM above all be it a State inspection to a local HOA Karen telling me what I can park in my driveway and what I can't. As long as I am with-in the law I want to be allowed to go about my day.

My great State Of South Carolina for the most part stays out of my auto, truck. motorcycles business and is one reason I still call it home and I assume one of many reasons so many Northern Folks are moving South but sadly many bring that Nanny State mentality with them.

I have considered retiring to the Mountains of North Carolina but my wife is the one who reminded me she does not want to deal with car inspections and in SC we enjoy a $500 cap on State Car sales tax, I buy a $150K car in SC the most I pay is $500 sales tax cap. We own motorcycles and in SC I can still find Ethanol FREE 93 My bikes have cams, tunes, exhaust, IF I move to NC Big Brother will say your modded toys are not welcome...

I guess my wife and I are a less is more people. The less regulation the better as far as I see it but some folks are more comfortable with lots and lots of rules and regulations... Some States are full of people who simply need a few acres of land and prefer to be left alone...
Great, you are responsible and properly maintain your vehicles. Clap clap clap. News flash for you, you aren't the only person in the world, and there are a LOT of people who do NOT maintain their cars properly. I'm guessing you live in a rural area and the most exposure to other people you get is when you go into town to go to the Dollar General or Autozone. It's great that you are knowledgeable enough, and responsible enough, to maintain your cars to the appropriate level to be safe.

However, there are a lot of people that,
1. Don't even KNOW when to take their car in for brake service, have no idea if their brakes are worn out or if the lines are rotted out
2. Literally do not care
or
3. "Can't afford it" but continue to drive anyway with the vehicle in a dangerous condition.

The objective of inspections (in a state where they are properly managed, such as NYS)
1. Educate and advise those people who don't know that they need to get their car fixed. This can be abused, but usually is an important service.
2. Force people who don't care to fix their stuff or they can't drive
3. Not being able to afford it does not preclude you the right to put other people's lives at risk.


Again, great for you that you know what, and how to maintain your car properly. That puts you in the top 10% of car owners. Most people do not, and those are the people that inspections are meant to catch from falling through the cracks. It might be a minor inconvenience for you, but it stops people from regularly operating dangerous vehicles. You just like to take everything as a personal affront.
 
If you actually knew what it takes to operate within these industries I doubt you would have even commented.

It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. Mark Twain
Having a difficult job doesn't mean you get to ignore the law, and it doesn't mean you are above everyone else and get to do whatever you want. This is the very definition of entitlement.
 
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