Just about any vehicle made in USA likely to be a 5w-30 n Australia.
Does anyone not believe in 0w-20?
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Originally Posted By: 69GTX
540RAT doesn't believe in 0w-20.
I'd use a 0w-20 if the mfg called for it from the first year that engine was in production. I'm not into back speccing. And I'd also require that it be a stout 20 grade that overlapped into the weak 30 grade region.
The day a manufacturer calls for xw20 exclusively on a global scale for an engine then I will believe it was designed around a xw20 oil and use it in that engine. To date there are none!
540RAT doesn't believe in 0w-20.
I'd use a 0w-20 if the mfg called for it from the first year that engine was in production. I'm not into back speccing. And I'd also require that it be a stout 20 grade that overlapped into the weak 30 grade region.
The day a manufacturer calls for xw20 exclusively on a global scale for an engine then I will believe it was designed around a xw20 oil and use it in that engine. To date there are none!
JTK
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Hard to say if 0w20 is a "bad oil", but I know I refuse to use it in my 2016 Subaru at the 6000mi oil change interval that's recommended for this vehicle. I'll use 5w20 or maybe even 5w30 in it at some point given the 6Kmi OCI thing.
The other question I have is why even go to 0W? Why not just run straight 20W-20 and be done with it. MUCH more shear stable and most motors can handle 20W on start-up unless you live in Wisconsin or Canada
5W-20 & 0W-20 are about the same viscosity at operating temperature. 0W-20 offers advantages at extremely cold temperatures. Newer vehicle manufacturers specifying 0W-20 basically means they want you to use a full synthetic since 0W-20 is only available in full synthetic, there are a few synthetic blends in 0W-20 but I never see them anywhere. 5W-30 is a little thicker at operating temperature than either 0 or 5W-20. Again, this isn't going to make much difference. There may be an unnoticeable decrease in fuel economy, we're talking 0.1 MPG or less, too little to matter. 20 weight oils are specified only for CAFE standards to inch out the last bit of fuel economy as you said, I am firm in that belief. That said, 20 weight oils will keep your engine going just fine. The engine will outlast the rest of the car with regular maintenance & any 20 or 30 weight oil. Don't worry about it, use 0W-20 for your warranty period then go wild with 5W-20 or 5W-30 or whatever you choose, it won't matter.
From what I've read 0W20 is more shear stable than 5W20. Even though 5W20 is slightly thicker it will shear easier to a 0W20.
Similar to Dexron 3 vs. Dexron 6 debate. Although Dex 6 is thinner than Dex 3, it's more shear stable.
Similar to Dexron 3 vs. Dexron 6 debate. Although Dex 6 is thinner than Dex 3, it's more shear stable.
Yes. It exists!
Originally Posted By: horse123
...
Reason is, I've read that marketing and lawyers probably have more of a say in what oil to run than engineers do most of the time....
Where did you "read" this?
...
Reason is, I've read that marketing and lawyers probably have more of a say in what oil to run than engineers do most of the time....
Where did you "read" this?
My wife's new car calls for 0w20. The first thing I did when we got it home was open the manual to see if anything else was ok. It said you could use 5w20 if 0w20 wasn't availabe, but should go back to 0w20 to maintain fuel economy ratings. It never said anything about voiding the warranty, only said 0w20 SHOULD be used, not MUST.
Not that I have a problem with 0w20, I just don't need it here in FL. Now if I lived north of the Mason-Dixon line, I just might let it ride with 0w20.
Having said that, I already have a jug of Pennzoil Ultra Platinum
5w20 on stand-by for the first oil change. I'll probably change it at 3750 miles.
Not that I have a problem with 0w20, I just don't need it here in FL. Now if I lived north of the Mason-Dixon line, I just might let it ride with 0w20.
Having said that, I already have a jug of Pennzoil Ultra Platinum
5w20 on stand-by for the first oil change. I'll probably change it at 3750 miles.
Originally Posted By: horse123
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: horse123
Originally Posted By: 02s4audi
From everything I've read and I have no proof of this. 0w20 usually is a better quality oil. Made with better base stocks etc. They say that 5w and 0w in normal temperatures are about the same, it's when you get super cold that 0w takes the advantage. I would stick with 0w20. You've been running it no issues and it won't cause any issues... neither would switching to 5w20 or 30 either though
I wouldn't say no issues. I've had twice now in the last year or so where a quart of oil has randomly disappeared from my car in less than a week. I check it on say Sunday and it's just below the full line or at. Then by Thursday the low oil light comes on and somehow a quart has vanished despite no leak and no smokey exhaust. No idea where it's going, but if it's somehow slipping into the cylinders, thicker oil could help prevent that...
I believe your 2012 is the first year of the new (revised) Imprezza with the improved MPG's. I also believe it uses 'low tension' rings in the new engine as a means of achieving this improvement. I also believe there is a class action lawsuit against Subaru for oil usage in their latest vehicles.
If I were out of warranty, I would try 5w20 or even 5w30 to see if it helps with the oil usage.
The thing is I get 0 oil usage up to like 3500 miles in, but the last year this has happened twice where it suddenly used a massive amount of oil in no seconds flat. Then after I refill it, it doesn't use any oil again.
These cars are notorious for inconsistent oil level readings. Many have resorted to parking them in the EXACT same spot and only checking after they are parked overnight. Oil is supposed to be checked hot but even after 15 minutes many cant get consistent readings and you soon learn two flat spots are not.
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: horse123
Originally Posted By: 02s4audi
From everything I've read and I have no proof of this. 0w20 usually is a better quality oil. Made with better base stocks etc. They say that 5w and 0w in normal temperatures are about the same, it's when you get super cold that 0w takes the advantage. I would stick with 0w20. You've been running it no issues and it won't cause any issues... neither would switching to 5w20 or 30 either though
I wouldn't say no issues. I've had twice now in the last year or so where a quart of oil has randomly disappeared from my car in less than a week. I check it on say Sunday and it's just below the full line or at. Then by Thursday the low oil light comes on and somehow a quart has vanished despite no leak and no smokey exhaust. No idea where it's going, but if it's somehow slipping into the cylinders, thicker oil could help prevent that...
I believe your 2012 is the first year of the new (revised) Imprezza with the improved MPG's. I also believe it uses 'low tension' rings in the new engine as a means of achieving this improvement. I also believe there is a class action lawsuit against Subaru for oil usage in their latest vehicles.
If I were out of warranty, I would try 5w20 or even 5w30 to see if it helps with the oil usage.
The thing is I get 0 oil usage up to like 3500 miles in, but the last year this has happened twice where it suddenly used a massive amount of oil in no seconds flat. Then after I refill it, it doesn't use any oil again.
These cars are notorious for inconsistent oil level readings. Many have resorted to parking them in the EXACT same spot and only checking after they are parked overnight. Oil is supposed to be checked hot but even after 15 minutes many cant get consistent readings and you soon learn two flat spots are not.
Originally Posted By: Trav
I don't use xw20 in anything, to me its all door hinge lube oil. Since when did 5w30 become thick oil?
Amen, brother.
I don't use xw20 in anything, to me its all door hinge lube oil. Since when did 5w30 become thick oil?
Amen, brother.
Originally Posted By: horse123
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: horse123
Originally Posted By: 02s4audi
From everything I've read and I have no proof of this. 0w20 usually is a better quality oil. Made with better base stocks etc. They say that 5w and 0w in normal temperatures are about the same, it's when you get super cold that 0w takes the advantage. I would stick with 0w20. You've been running it no issues and it won't cause any issues... neither would switching to 5w20 or 30 either though
I wouldn't say no issues. I've had twice now in the last year or so where a quart of oil has randomly disappeared from my car in less than a week. I check it on say Sunday and it's just below the full line or at. Then by Thursday the low oil light comes on and somehow a quart has vanished despite no leak and no smokey exhaust. No idea where it's going, but if it's somehow slipping into the cylinders, thicker oil could help prevent that...
I believe your 2012 is the first year of the new (revised) Imprezza with the improved MPG's. I also believe it uses 'low tension' rings in the new engine as a means of achieving this improvement. I also believe there is a class action lawsuit against Subaru for oil usage in their latest vehicles.
If I were out of warranty, I would try 5w20 or even 5w30 to see if it helps with the oil usage.
The thing is I get 0 oil usage up to like 3500 miles in, but the last year this has happened twice where it suddenly used a massive amount of oil in no seconds flat. Then after I refill it, it doesn't use any oil again.
So......What in this odd oil consumption issue leads you to believe that 5W/30 would not disappear, in the same odd way?
The only time I have observed an oil level drop the way you describe is when some contaminant is getting into the oil over a period of time, and is then flared off, by a relatively long high speed run.
Fuel or water. Both get evaporated when you run long and hot enough.
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: horse123
Originally Posted By: 02s4audi
From everything I've read and I have no proof of this. 0w20 usually is a better quality oil. Made with better base stocks etc. They say that 5w and 0w in normal temperatures are about the same, it's when you get super cold that 0w takes the advantage. I would stick with 0w20. You've been running it no issues and it won't cause any issues... neither would switching to 5w20 or 30 either though
I wouldn't say no issues. I've had twice now in the last year or so where a quart of oil has randomly disappeared from my car in less than a week. I check it on say Sunday and it's just below the full line or at. Then by Thursday the low oil light comes on and somehow a quart has vanished despite no leak and no smokey exhaust. No idea where it's going, but if it's somehow slipping into the cylinders, thicker oil could help prevent that...
I believe your 2012 is the first year of the new (revised) Imprezza with the improved MPG's. I also believe it uses 'low tension' rings in the new engine as a means of achieving this improvement. I also believe there is a class action lawsuit against Subaru for oil usage in their latest vehicles.
If I were out of warranty, I would try 5w20 or even 5w30 to see if it helps with the oil usage.
The thing is I get 0 oil usage up to like 3500 miles in, but the last year this has happened twice where it suddenly used a massive amount of oil in no seconds flat. Then after I refill it, it doesn't use any oil again.
So......What in this odd oil consumption issue leads you to believe that 5W/30 would not disappear, in the same odd way?
The only time I have observed an oil level drop the way you describe is when some contaminant is getting into the oil over a period of time, and is then flared off, by a relatively long high speed run.
Fuel or water. Both get evaporated when you run long and hot enough.
Yeah, if you are dropping 2 qts in a matter of a few days, there is a mechanical issue at play here... I'll bet it's the PCV system... But these are new'ish cars, so that does not make sense to me either ...
How about 0W20 in an engine spec'ed for xW40 ? I use QSUD 0W20 in 2000 MB E430, it had various brands xW20 the last several years.
Engine is running smoothly at all RPM but most of the time it's turning around 2300-2400 RPM on highway.
Engine is running smoothly at all RPM but most of the time it's turning around 2300-2400 RPM on highway.
5W-20 and 5W-30 are generally the easiest and cheapest oils to find in any store, giving you the most options to find oil on sale. Since I have a mixed fleet at the moment, with one specing 5W-20 and the other 5W-30, I go with 5W-30 in both to keep things simple. In my experience using a 5W synthetic makes a huge difference in winter starting ease--I might switch to 0W at some point for winter use if I find it becomes more readily available and reasonable in price.
Originally Posted By: bchannell
Oh, and as a footnote, have you ever read a Toyota owner's manual? My Tacoma recommends 0w20 for the best gas mileage and protection, is the most preferred, 5w20 acceptable, and then it states, and this is not an exact quote but the gist is, ...
That IS NOT what the manual says. It says 20 is for a combination of mileage and wear. Which is a compromise. I value proterction, I use 30. IF manufacturers specified 20 in markets without political influence in oil selection, you'd have a better argument. But they do not do that.
Oh, and as a footnote, have you ever read a Toyota owner's manual? My Tacoma recommends 0w20 for the best gas mileage and protection, is the most preferred, 5w20 acceptable, and then it states, and this is not an exact quote but the gist is, ...
That IS NOT what the manual says. It says 20 is for a combination of mileage and wear. Which is a compromise. I value proterction, I use 30. IF manufacturers specified 20 in markets without political influence in oil selection, you'd have a better argument. But they do not do that.
So, evidently we can deduce from this that 5w-30 will always be a better choice than 5w-20 or 0w-20 in every application and the latter two only exist as a politically-spawned compromise. Also, there will always be a marked difference in the wear of every engine using 5w-30 over 5w-20 or 0w-20 because there's much less "protection" with either but there's a lot more "protection" with 5w-30 just because of the grade and not the inherent qualities of the oil or the vehicle. It's not a stretch to say, in many ways, 5w-20 and 5w-30 oils are more similar than they are different in most applications where people are commuting to work everyday and not towing 3000 lb. trailers.
Manufacturers often specify oil grades in other countries that are influenced by the quality of the fuel versus political influence. You'd have to call that a compromise too if the vehicle could run more optimally on a thinner oil than specified if the gas was of a higher quality than the market / government specifies. Maybe 10w-30 doesn't "protect" as well as in engines that don't spec this grade for the same engine in the U.S. After all, people are still posting that the Russian or Bolivian owner's manual says to use 5w-40 so that's what the U.S. would specify without CAFE standards right????
Manufacturers often specify oil grades in other countries that are influenced by the quality of the fuel versus political influence. You'd have to call that a compromise too if the vehicle could run more optimally on a thinner oil than specified if the gas was of a higher quality than the market / government specifies. Maybe 10w-30 doesn't "protect" as well as in engines that don't spec this grade for the same engine in the U.S. After all, people are still posting that the Russian or Bolivian owner's manual says to use 5w-40 so that's what the U.S. would specify without CAFE standards right????
Originally Posted By: horse123
5w-30 might be a little thick I think, unless I happen to live in death valley.
To me, 5W-30 seems pretty thin at store shelf temperatures, so how you came up with your perception is beyond me.
5w-30 might be a little thick I think, unless I happen to live in death valley.
To me, 5W-30 seems pretty thin at store shelf temperatures, so how you came up with your perception is beyond me.
Originally Posted By: Vuflanovsky
Manufacturers often specify oil grades in other countries that are influenced by the quality of the fuel versus political influence. You'd have to call that a compromise too if the vehicle could run more optimally on a thinner oil than specified if the gas was of a higher quality than the market / government specifies. Maybe 10w-30 doesn't "protect" as well as in engines that don't spec this grade for the same engine in the U.S. After all, people are still posting that the Russian or Bolivian owner's manual says to use 5w-40 so that's what the U.S. would specify without CAFE standards right????
This is an oft-repeated but factually inaccurate arguement. Quality oils of thinner visc. are available in many markets, and 20w not specified.
Manufacturers often specify oil grades in other countries that are influenced by the quality of the fuel versus political influence. You'd have to call that a compromise too if the vehicle could run more optimally on a thinner oil than specified if the gas was of a higher quality than the market / government specifies. Maybe 10w-30 doesn't "protect" as well as in engines that don't spec this grade for the same engine in the U.S. After all, people are still posting that the Russian or Bolivian owner's manual says to use 5w-40 so that's what the U.S. would specify without CAFE standards right????
This is an oft-repeated but factually inaccurate arguement. Quality oils of thinner visc. are available in many markets, and 20w not specified.
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